Muad’Dib Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 KARFTWERK Inducted into R&R Hall of Fame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Funster Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 Cool for karftwerk. Iron maiden got snubbed for jayz. No Foghat or Savoy Brown. No john Mahal? No foreigner? No?no?no? The list of who's out is longer than who's in. Quote FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mike Metlay Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 I agree about Jay-Z, and yes, there are a lot of people who should have gotten in long ago (Rush made it before Yes?), but if you look at the landscape of music today -- regardless of genre, regardless of whether you like it or not... hell, regardless of whether or not you even think it's "real music"! -- there is no single band (with the arguable exceptions of the Beatles and Brian Wilson) that has had more influence on the musicmaking process than Kraftwerk. They pretty much single-handedly created electronic dance music, and the technology that came out of that can be found everywhere in the music world today. It ALL flows from them. Were they great songwriters? Did they write music for the ages? Will people be singing their songs quietly to themselves while they walk in the park or ride the subway any time soon? No, of course not. But their shadow looms large over the industry and it always will. That said, I feel badly for them in the same way I felt badly for Yes when their much-delayed induction came through. Chris Squire was the heart of Yes and he didn't live to see himself inducted, and Florian Schneider didn't either. It will be interesting to see who shows up for the actual ceremony; Ralf Hutter is famously publicity-shy and always has been, and I don't think Wolfgang Flur or Karl Bartos have been on speaking terms with him for 30 years. I honestly wouldn't put it past them to wheel out four of their robot mannequins... or at least one of Florian. He'd probably love that, to be honest. Quote Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) Musician, Author, Editor, Educator, Impresario, Online Radio Guy, Cut-Rate Polymath, and Kindly Pedant Editor-in-Chief, Bjooks ~ Author of SYNTH GEMS 1 clicky!: more about me ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job ~ my book ~ my music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roygBiv Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 This is great news! I thought they got passed up yet again (long time fan since the late 70s when I was the only guy in "high" school that even listened to them). That led me to buy an Arp Axxe with all my paper-route money in ~ 79?, and trying to understand how synthesizers worked led to a career in science. So I owe them a lot. I agree about Jay-Z, and yes, there are a lot of people who should have gotten in long ago (Rush made it before Yes?), but if you look at the landscape of music today -- regardless of genre, regardless of whether you like it or not... hell, regardless of whether or not you even think it's "real music"! -- there is no single band (with the arguable exceptions of the Beatles and Brian Wilson) that has had more influence on the musicmaking process than Kraftwerk. They pretty much single-handedly created electronic dance music, and the technology that came out of that can be found everywhere in the music world today. It ALL flows from them. Were they great songwriters? Did they write music for the ages? Will people be singing their songs quietly to themselves while they walk in the park or ride the subway any time soon? No, of course not. But their shadow looms large over the industry and it always will. Agree completely. Also, until the last 10 years or so, i had not appreciated what a massive impact they had on early hip-hop, and more complicated (non disco) rhythm patterns in dance music in general. ..... I honestly wouldn't put it past them to wheel out four of their robot mannequins... or at least one of Florian. He'd probably love that, to be honest. I think you nailed this with the ultimate analysis and prediction! One founding member being unable to attend due to existential issues (yes). Other members not really speaking with each other (yes). History of using robot mannequins for stand-ins during interviews (yes). Frankly, now that you laid it out like that, I would be shocked if they didn't use robot stand-ins. Big question for me now - who will induct them? Maybe Coldplay and GrandMaster Flash? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Funster Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 I think we are kidding ourselves if we think that induction at this point is about merit and not about the hof's own survival and revenue. Jayz and not PAUL RODGERS? If it was the rap hof and things were reversed I would say go jayz. As much as kraftwerk is loved on a keyboard forum c'mon, bad company has had an incalculable influence on music. Find how many covers of bad co have been done on records or in bars by coverbands and count the covers of kraftwerk. Hey I'm not dissing kraftwerk. Hurray for kraftwerk. Quote FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnector Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 Another year and ELP gets snubbed again. WTF? Are they waiting for CP to pass on as well before they get around to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 Another year, another Hall of Fame redefining the term rock and roll for their own purposes. Happy for Kraftwerk. Confused by Jay-Z - although he's had huge hits that combine pop and hip-hop (Empire State of Mind, Young Forever, Umbrella) neither are what most consider rock and roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0Ampy0o Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 I think we are kidding ourselves if we think that induction at this point is about merit and not about the hof's own survival and revenue. Jayz and not PAUL RODGERS? If it was the rap hof and things were reversed I would say go jayz. As much as kraftwerk is loved on a keyboard forum c'mon, bad company has had an incalculable influence on music. Find how many covers of bad co have been done on records or in bars by coverbands and count the covers of kraftwerk. Hey I'm not dissing kraftwerk. Hurray for kraftwerk.Bad Company? WTF? Free made Bad Company possible. In addition to Rodgers contribution, Paul Kosoff was a very defining sound, tone and style integral to Rock music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 I like Kraftwerk, but when they get in and Foreigner and ELP are left out, something is bad wrong. All credibility is lost. Not that they've had any credibility the past ten years. Quote This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyS Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 Sick and tired of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJUSCULE Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 Another year, another Hall of Fame redefining the term rock and roll for their own purposes. Happy for Kraftwerk. Confused by Jay-Z - although he's had huge hits that combine pop and hip-hop (Empire State of Mind, Young Forever, Umbrella) neither are what most consider rock and roll. Bill! Normally you're the dude who knows about this kind of stuff! Jay-Z and Linkin Park: Integrating youth sports locker room pump-ups since 2004. [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjbdm5AGeDs Quote Eric Website Gear page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBarker Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Super happy for Kraftwerk, and not too upset about Iron Maiden. I'm a huge Maiden fan and think they deserve it, but they don't NEED it. Maiden is huge, everyone knows how big and influential they are, they don't really need an award to show the world that. Kraftwerk, on the other hand, is very easily forgotten despite their monolithic contribution to the music industry. Too late, but better late than never. Maiden will win it one of these years, we all know it's just a matter of time. People list ELP and Foreigner. I think there's a good precedent for some progrock bands, but the question of broader influence is definitely an issue. I would say King Crimson is #1 on the list for prog bands that need recognition. They literally spawned the genre overnight (back in 1969 from a basement London club), but their reach has been far and wide outside of the prog scene, all the heavy metal kings list them as a huge influence. Yes was an obvious one, as was Rush, but I think both of those bands (as amazing as they are), owe a lot of their history to King Crimson. As for ELP and Foreigner? I think they obviously deserve it, but their reach hasn't been as huge. Foreigner is obviously a hugely successful commercial band, but I'm not sure what their greater legacy has been. ELP has a lot of trouble reaching outside the progrock and keyboard rock world, but inside they are behemoths, so it's a tough call. Ironically, probably ELPs biggest influence outside of prog has been in classic Video Game Music. Pretty much all Nintendo shit sounds like MIDI ELP, and that's not a coincidence, they were HUGE in Japan during the early 80s. Quote Puck Funk! Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuruPrionz Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 I agree about Jay-Z, and yes, there are a lot of people who should have gotten in long ago (Rush made it before Yes?), but if you look at the landscape of music today -- regardless of genre, regardless of whether you like it or not... hell, regardless of whether or not you even think it's "real music"! -- there is no single band (with the arguable exceptions of the Beatles and Brian Wilson) that has had more influence on the musicmaking process than Kraftwerk. They pretty much single-handedly created electronic dance music, and the technology that came out of that can be found everywhere in the music world today. It ALL flows from them. Were they great songwriters? Did they write music for the ages? Will people be singing their songs quietly to themselves while they walk in the park or ride the subway any time soon? No, of course not. But their shadow looms large over the industry and it always will. That said, I feel badly for them in the same way I felt badly for Yes when their much-delayed induction came through. Chris Squire was the heart of Yes and he didn't live to see himself inducted, and Florian Schneider didn't either. It will be interesting to see who shows up for the actual ceremony; Ralf Hutter is famously publicity-shy and always has been, and I don't think Wolfgang Flur or Karl Bartos have been on speaking terms with him for 30 years. I honestly wouldn't put it past them to wheel out four of their robot mannequins... or at least one of Florian. He'd probably love that, to be honest. We all know the R&RHOF is pretty silly. And opinions cannot be argued since it is not possible for opinions to be based on indisputable facts. Kraftwerk is a keyboard band and this is a keyboard forum. I'm a guitarist but also a songwriter and I see things differently. In terms of influence and where we are today, I'd put Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, Big Mama Thornton, James Brown and The Funk Brothers ahead of The Beatles or Brian Wilson. Miles Davis rates for Bitches Brew, probably an influence on Kraftwerk and many other bands. Kraftwerk would be somewhere in the top 30-50 or so... Madonna, Prince and David Bowie would be ahead of Kraftwerk by quite a few slots as well. Setting musicianship aside (you almost have to, this is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame), I'd put Kraftwerk a slot or two ahead of The Spice Girls but not much more than that. I don't expect to emerge from this intact but those are my choices and my opinion. There are outliers, who can understand the big hit Nillson had with Lime in the Coconut? A song in C7 with one chord and lyrics that make no sense whatsoever. It is sort of a horrible/wonderful master disaster yet "It was on the U.S. Billboard charts for 14 weeks, reaching #8, and was ranked by Billboard as the #66 song for 1972. It charted minorly in the UK, reaching #42. "Coconut" did best in Canada, where it peaked at #5. It was later featured in the films Reservoir Dogs, Practical Magic, and The Addams Family also Hey Arnold!: The Movie. In 1998, a cover version was released by Australian singer Dannii Minogue as a single, peaking at #62 on the ARIA singles chart." JayZ, not so much but Bruno Mars, Shawn Combs aka Puff Daddy, way ahead of Kraftwerk. I am just opinionating on influence here, gotta keep it real yo! Cheers, Kuru Quote It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Emm Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 I'm sure there will be a serious bidding war on ebay for the three 'tears' Robert Fripp didn't really shed because King Crimson hasn't made the cut. Quote "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower. The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked." ~ John Cleese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Oh thank god this thread popped up. I've been concerned we were going to miss our yearly "RRHOF Sucks thread" that usually appears right after the announcements. We should just put a permanent link to all the others, up top, or create it's own subsection.... Quote David Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuruPrionz Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 I forgot Chuck Berry. The Beatles and the Rolling Stones covered Chuck Berry songs. Chuck Berry did not cover any Beatles or Rolling Stones songs. The Beach Boys slavishly imitated Chuck Berry's songwriting and guitar styles. Chuck Berry did not imitate the Beach Boys. Just sayin... Quote It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuruPrionz Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Oh thank god this thread popped up. I've been concerned we were going to miss our yearly "RRHOF Sucks thread" that usually appears right after the announcements. We should just put a permanent link to all the others, up top, or create it's own subsection.... We were all sort of hoping you would unleash some sort of scathing diatribe... Quote It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Funster Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Next year Vanilla Fudge is going to be inducted for sure! Quote FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Another year, another Hall of Fame redefining the term rock and roll for their own purposes. Happy for Kraftwerk. Confused by Jay-Z - although he's had huge hits that combine pop and hip-hop (Empire State of Mind, Young Forever, Umbrella) neither are what most consider rock and roll. Bill! Normally you're the dude who knows about this kind of stuff! Jay-Z and Linkin Park: Integrating youth sports locker room pump-ups since 2004. [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjbdm5AGeDs Oops yeah I should have remembered that one because of the Numb mashup. That was kind of a tumultuous period of my life... anyway I still suspect Jay-Z's nomination has more to do with his importance in the music industry as a businessman than anything rock and roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 There is one thing that is for sure these conversation have gone on from the beginning of the HoF and will continue till the end. Every generation views who was important to them differently from the generation before and after them. It's like guitars and I imagine keyboards too there was gear that when we were young thought that's crap, but twenty-five years later it gets label Vintage and now boy I'd love to have one of those. Bands are the same for most what they liked at 13 YO still holds a place in their heart not becuase listening back they were good, but because they were part of a milestone in your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Oh thank god this thread popped up. I've been concerned we were going to miss our yearly "RRHOF Sucks thread" that usually appears right after the announcements. We should just put a permanent link to all the others, up top, or create it's own subsection.... We were all sort of hoping you would unleash some sort of scathing diatribe... Should have used my smiley face or something. Not mad, not a diatribe. More of an amusement for me Quote David Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 Didn"t even know Kraftwerk is considered IDM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuruPrionz Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 Oh thank god this thread popped up. I've been concerned we were going to miss our yearly "RRHOF Sucks thread" that usually appears right after the announcements. We should just put a permanent link to all the others, up top, or create it's own subsection.... We were all sort of hoping you would unleash some sort of scathing diatribe... Should have used my smiley face or something. Not mad, not a diatribe. More of an amusement for me Scathing diatribes are FUN!!!! :) Quote It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 What about Duran Duran? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Funster Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 What about Duran Duran? Whyuyuyuyuy? That's a rhetorical question. Quote FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 This does seem to be an annual rite around here triggering the usual reactions: happiness, bemusement, befuddlement, outrage, philosophical discussions about criteria and purpose, and the perennial questions of "how can X be in if Y is not?" A good argument can be made that every Hall of Fame is a ruse and a scam. Some may be purely civic minded . . . like perhaps your high school athletic HOF. But most have a very thinly-veiled commercial purpose. To me, no HOF is more oxymoronic than that bearing the "Rock n' Roll" moniker. Rock music, along with its ancestors and its diasporadic progency (think JayZ) are supposed to embnody the anti-establishment sentiment. The rockn'roll star in his or her fetal form rejects the structures imposed by society including, and maybe particularly, those that demand a merit-based ranking. I've never been able to care about the RRHOF because I've never been able to suspend disbelief in this contradiction. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0Ampy0o Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 ...Rock music, along with its ancestors and its diasporadic progency (think JayZ) are supposed to embnody the anti-establishment sentiment. The rockn'roll star in his or her fetal form rejects the structures imposed by society including, and maybe particularly, those that demand a merit-based ranking. I've never been able to care about the RRHOF because I've never been able to suspend disbelief in this contradiction.That's it, shake The Rock and Roll Bible at those lost souls operating the RRHOF. They just don't know the definition of Rock and Roll. Hell, I didn't know what Rock and Roll was supposed to be. I can't wait to feel enjoyment of True Rock and Roll now that I have seen the light! I submit this rare version of a classic as an example that embodies . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 ...Rock music, along with its ancestors and its diasporadic progency (think JayZ) are supposed to embnody the anti-establishment sentiment. The rockn'roll star in his or her fetal form rejects the structures imposed by society including, and maybe particularly, those that demand a merit-based ranking. I've never been able to care about the RRHOF because I've never been able to suspend disbelief in this contradiction.That's it, shake The Rock and Roll Bible at those lost souls operating the RRHOF. They just don't know the definition of Rock and Roll. Hell, I didn't know what Rock and Roll was supposed to be. I can't wait to feel enjoyment of True Rock and Roll now that I have seen the light! I submit this rare version of a classic as an example that embodies . I get that you're being sarcastic, but I'm not getting your underlying message. I don't claim to understand what rock music is, and yet I feel pretty sure it has very little to do with gaining entry to an exclusive club. I suppose the best comeback to a wet blanket like me is that it's a harmless and fun diversion if you can stop worrying about whether it makes perfect sense. Stop being so analytical and just enjoy it. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0Ampy0o Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 I get that you're being sarcastic, but I'm not getting your underlying message. I don't claim to understand what rock music is, and yet I feel pretty sure it has very little to do with gaining entry to an exclusive club. I suppose the best comeback to a wet blanket like me is that it's a harmless and fun diversion if you can stop worrying about whether it makes perfect sense. Stop being so analytical and just enjoy it. Please forgive my blunder. There wasn't meant to be an underlying message. I was up very late and tired and in the process of setting up a Rick Roll I ended up stressing a point that wasn't really the point I saw in my mind. That point was never elaborated. A fresh approach: a problem with your concept of Rock music as defined in your post is that it leaves no room for all the silly love songs and pretty much most of Progressive Rock. For instance, even though The Beatles lead an anti-establishment way beginning when they kept their Liverpoolian accents refusing to adopt a higher class accent which had been the British way, their catalog ultimately consists of more love songs than anything else. There are plenty of musicians and material reflecting the anti-establishment theme but I suspect (without hard scientific data) there is more music considered Rock that speaks of life and all of its varying experiences than rebellious causes. Rock music, along with its ancestors and its diasporadic progency (think JayZ) are supposed to embnody the anti-establishment sentiment. The rockn'roll star in his or her fetal form rejects the structures imposed by society Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad’Dib Posted May 24, 2021 Author Share Posted May 24, 2021 I did not expect this kind of reaction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.