Any Capable 88-key Controllers/Keyboards I'm Overlooking?

[confidence]

MC3000 is awesome but it's 60lb.

[stoken6]

Really? My MC1000 with the same action is 44lb. 60lb is excessive in any currency.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[confidence]

It's not the same action. MC1000 and MC2000 are semi-weighted. MC3000 is fully weighted hammer action. Also it's bigger.

[ChazKeys]

Has anyone mentioned the Doepfer Controllers? Various models, a little basic in functionality. Check them out at Thomann.

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/doepfer_midi_master_keyboards.html

[Fleer]

Roland A88MkII with rotary knobs (but then I"d still prefer the RD88 with its speakers and 3000 Zen Core sounds).

[felis]

MP7SE is 46 lbs. https://kawaius.com/product/mp7se/ Not sure if that's a deal breaker.

[Al Coda]

2. Secondhand - Viscount/Oberheim MC3000 is the spiritual ancestor of the K4 (complete with 8 MIDI outs). I think it's 8-zone, 8 faders (unfortunately, but there is a 3rd wheel that could substitute?), and should be reliable.

 

The main issue is,- WHEN it craps out because of aged electronics,- it becomes very hard to repair.

IIRC, it was impossible finding a display replacement already many years ago.

 

A.C.

[Mighty Motif Max]

 

5. Kawai MP7SE

 

This is a serious keyboard instrument for sure.

 

6. ... + Sipario + Nektar Panorama P1 + Kenton USB Midi Host - gives 20 fully configurable P1 Presets with tons of controls, but on one zone.

 

MP7SE alone offers 4 zones and MIDI implementation is good enough for gigging.

Zones can be internal, external or both !

 

Panorama P1 unfortunately lacks mergeable 5-Pin DIN MIDI-In and 5-PIn DIN MIDI-Out,- and you won´t get this functionality when combining w/ Kenton USB MIDI host.

I also was disappointed the P1 lacks an expression pedal input.

 

You could buy a used, good condition Edirol PCR300, 500, 800 or (new) Roland A-800 Pro and combine w/ any other MIDI keyboard controller (MP7SE included) via mergable 5-Pin DIN MIDI-In while using the 5-Pin DIN MIDI-Out for your computer in addition !

For the Edirol or Roland, you´d have to program the desired MIDI CC maps though.

That´s easy w/ help of the software editor WHEN you know what you need.

PCR and Roland A-800 offer additional "single, dual, split" functionality w/ +/- 3 oct. transposition, AT on/off and panic-button combo,- all close to the pitch-/mod - lever !

/quote]

 

The Kawai does have a lot of features. I'd just like more than 4 zones, because I can think of numerous times I've needed 5-7 zones. Although I suppose the internal sounds could be added, but I think that's still within the zone ranges set for the external sounds (or vice versa). Yes, it's a serious piece of gear. It's also the best-feeling action I've ever played ever (same as the ES8).

 

The Panorama P1 - I wasn't actually thinking of passing the midi data through it from the keyboard. Maybe this is a hair-brained idea, but I had envisioned it this way (same for the other combinations using the extra gear): Kawai -> Sipario Midi In 1. Panorama P1 -> Kenton USB Midi Host -> Sipario Midi In 2. Assign P1 controls to various zones from the Sipario, set zones across Kawai from the Sipario as well (up to 8). Midi Out from Sipario to midi router for the rack rig.

 

 

Kurzweil PC4

 

If it shall be a KURZ,- today, I´d wait for the arrival of K2700 !

It might hit market summer this year.

 

In that case, you possibly won´t think about any of the above anymore,- except of the Kawai MP7SE´s triple sensor action (which in opposite to the KURZ´ Fatar TP40L, lacks channel AT unfortunately).

 

Well,- you can´t always get what you want !

 

 

 

A.C.

 

...

 

Speaking as the guy who broke the first images, site link, etc on the K2700 to the forum plus talked with Kurzweil at NAMM and got some answers about the way sound memory has been handled plus estimated timelines for demos and US availability, it seems like a nice board. It's just going to be out of my price range, which is capped at $2000 and no further.

 

I'm kind of laughing at myself at this point, but the plan here was to more or less replicate the power of the Motif XF or similar (minus the sequencer) by making a rack rig accompanied by a midi controller for less than a good self-contained board that could do it all. It would be pretty portable, fairly lightweight, and I could add that rack setup to any keyboard if needed and get the same soundset if needed. That idea is down the drain, because right now I have $3000 or so in the rack setup (and still need a better midi router) and still need a controller. I could have avoided this all by just buying a PC4 or RD-2000 right off the bat. Heck, by the time I add a keyboard, I'm now in Forte or Nord Stage 3 territory. So I'm going to end up buying a self-contained keyboard that I was trying to be cheaper than just to control the rack.

[Mighty Motif Max]

This thread has opened out quite a bit! I'll just throw a couple of thoughts in:

 

1. Do you really want to control your HX3 module from a hammer-action? I really like Al's suggestion of using an unweighted controller with a mergeable MIDI In to give you drawbars etc, as well as a more organ-friendly playing surface. Combine that with a SL88 Grand or Roland RD88 for a really nice rig. (Or if you're stuck on playing from the hammer-action, simply buy a 2-octave controller and ignore the keyboard, just use the faders and other controls).

 

 

Ideally, no, but I'm at college and I have real space limitations and so I'm trying to stick to one board. I've done organ from my Motif XF alright in the past, though when possible I use my Krome for the organ parts. I don't have the HX3 yet anyways. But yes, ideally, a two-keyboard setup with two keybeds would always be my preferred setup.

 

2. Secondhand - Viscount/Oberheim MC3000 is the spiritual ancestor of the K4 (complete with 8 MIDI outs). I think it's 8-zone, 8 faders (unfortunately, but there is a 3rd wheel that could substitute?), and should be reliable. I've owned the MC1000 in both 76-key (bought from new in about 2004, sold last year) and 88-key (bought s/h about 10 years ago), no problems with either. If you can find one at a nice price, it might be worth a gamble - and at this stage in its (after)life-cycle, you can probably sell it on for what you paid if it doesn't do what you need.

 

Cheers, Mike.

MC3000 is awesome but it's 60lb.

Too heavy for my use, and honestly I'm not feeling like buying more older used stuff right now because I've had too much destroyed in shipping. I won't ship anything used that's heavier than 15 lbs now.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Has anyone mentioned the Doepfer Controllers? Various models, a little basic in functionality. Check them out at Thomann.

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/doepfer_midi_master_keyboards.html

 

Thank you! They're a little too basic on functionality and over my weight limit for the nicer ones unfortunately.

 

Roland A88MkII with rotary knobs (but then I"d still prefer the RD88 with its speakers and 3000 Zen Core sounds).

Yeah, given the sparsity of controls on the A88 MKII, I'd just get an RD-88. Neither has any faders though, so it's back to buying $768 of accessories, which puts me higher than a PC4.

 

MP7SE is 46 lbs. https://kawaius.com/product/mp7se/ Not sure if that's a deal breaker.

I can swing a few extra lbs for that action! Not a deal breaker at all. What IS a deal-breaker is adding $768 of external equipment to do what I need, sadly.

[Cabo]

What about buying the PC4 and selling some of the rack stuff? I think the PC4 could cover most of those sounds. It would be a lot simpler to set up / program versus multiple racks.

 

My only hesitation would be the keyed of the PC4 -- I played it and found it too lightweight for acoustic piano (for me). I owned the RD88 and also didn't like the keybed or interface. I do like my RD2000, but it's 47 lbs. I carry it around in a lightweight case, which works for me.

[Mighty Motif Max]

What about buying the PC4 and selling some of the rack stuff? I think the PC4 could cover most of those sounds. It would be a lot simpler to set up / program versus multiple racks.

 

My only hesitation would be the keyed of the PC4 -- I played it and found it too lightweight for acoustic piano (for me). I owned the RD88 and also didn't like the keybed or interface. I do like my RD2000, but it's 47 lbs. I carry it around in a lightweight case, which works for me.

 

True; that's kind of what's annoying me. OTOH the PC4 also appears to be the only board within my price range that would be able to control that rack setup well, since the K4EX is out of production. So theoretically I would need a PC4 if I ever did want to do this anyways.

 

It's interesting to hear that you found the PC4's action to be too lightweight but didn't like the RD-88 action and that you like the RD-2000. Presuming the PHA-4 on the RD-88 is the same as it was on the RD-800, I actually liked that fairly well. I also really disliked the action on the RD-2000! So maybe the PC4 will be quite nice for me then.

[Fleer]

Also preferring the RD-88 action to the RD-2000 here.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Just bought this guy. Should do the trick.

 

 

Thank you all for your help! I didn't have this board on my radar for midi stuff at all.

[EricBarker]

I've had two FATAR TP100 boards, and they're curious beasts. At first they have incredibly heavy weight, but they go through an enormous break-in change after heavy use, and now they're some of the lightest weighted keybeds I own. I'm not sure this is a great thing, they're almost TOO light now. This has happened twice. I have only had the Keylab88 MkI, but I do get the impression that the MkII is either pre-broken-in a bit or they tweaked it, because as soon as it released, a lot of the complaints about the heavy touch went away, and I've heard people say that it felt substantially better. Otherwise the Keylab88 is the only dumb controller I know of that meets all your requirements to a T, though that thing about program changes on different channels is a bit of a head scratcher, I'm sure there's an easy software solution around it.

[jeffincltnc]

Oh man, I am having moments of regret that I ordered a Kawai ES920 but didn't spring for the extra bucks to get the MP7SE... but I won't go that high in weight.

 

Anyway, I digress. It sounds like you want a Nord Stage 3 88 or a Forte 88 that's under 45 pounds (which is the Forte 7 that has 76 keys).... but you have a budget of $2500.

 

You should consider grabbing the Forte 7 for sale from Brad Kanael for $2500 or whatever he is selling it for. You don't need that extra octave. Put a Vent on the KB3 output and get the Purgatory Creek Collection from our friend Busch. You have one seriously badass instrument for your budget with 76 weighted keys, my friend.

[CEB]

The MP7SE would have been cheaper by the pound. You get more for the money.

[Fleer]

Congrats, MMMax!

[Mighty Motif Max]

I've had two FATAR TP100 boards, and they're curious beasts. At first they have incredibly heavy weight, but they go through an enormous break-in change after heavy use, and now they're some of the lightest weighted keybeds I own. I'm not sure this is a great thing, they're almost TOO light now. This has happened twice. I have only had the Keylab88 MkI, but I do get the impression that the MkII is either pre-broken-in a bit or they tweaked it, because as soon as it released, a lot of the complaints about the heavy touch went away, and I've heard people say that it felt substantially better. Otherwise the Keylab88 is the only dumb controller I know of that meets all your requirements to a T, though that thing about program changes on different channels is a bit of a head scratcher, I'm sure there's an easy software solution around it.

 

Interesting. i still heard a lot of reports about the MKII being really heavy. That's a bizarre way for an action to change!

 

I don't get the program change limitation either. The software solution is to use something like iMidiPatchbay or Keystage to send all the changes, but I didn't really want to do that. Or that Sipario unit is one cool piece of tech.

 

Either way the PC4 will do what I want, but it's more than a dumb controller for sure.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Oh man, I am having moments of regret that I ordered a Kawai ES920 but didn't spring for the extra bucks to get the MP7SE... but I won't go that high in weight.

 

Anyway, I digress. It sounds like you want a Nord Stage 3 88 or a Forte 88 that's under 45 pounds (which is the Forte 7 that has 76 keys).... but you have a budget of $2500.

 

You should consider grabbing the Forte 7 for sale from Brad Kanael for $2500 or whatever he is selling it for. You don't need that extra octave. Put a Vent on the KB3 output and get the Purgatory Creek Collection from our friend Busch. You have one seriously badass instrument for your budget with 76 weighted keys, my friend.

 

I DO need that extra octave - I'm studying classical piano and I also play ragtime, which makes frequent use of doubled bass octaves and such. Plus I like the real-estate for splits. If I could get by with 76 keys I wouldn't have bought anything because I already had 76'ers available. I thought I could originally so I didn't invest in an 88 for college. But yeah, the Forte/Forte7 are serious instruments.

[Mighty Motif Max]

The MP7SE would have been cheaper by the pound. You get more for the money.

Well, yeah, but it needed $768 in accessories to do what I need. IF I didn't need those extra accessories, then yes. And I have no doubt it would have better build quality. Let's just hope the PC4 is good enough (I mean, I gigged a Yamaha YPG-235 for years originally so I think I should be fine).

 

I can't always tell what's humor vs serious sometimes.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Congrats, MMMax!

 

Thanks! Looking forward to it.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Here we are with the setup in context. Thank you all for your help in this thread and others over the last few months!