Kurzweil PC4

[AnotherScott]

Isn't this the Medelli in the 7?

It's A Medelli. It's not the same Medelli that's in the PC4. I also don't think it's the same Medelli that they used in the SP4-7 (the only non-hammer Medelli they've used, AFAIK), though I wouldn't mind if it were.

[Ken Beaumont]

I had an SP4-7, I liked that action.

[Stefan011]

Really? A am thinking about Switching from Nord Electro back to Kurz, because the Nords HP action is too heavy for someone who does not practice enough.

 

Did You like the accoustic and electric piano samples and how they interacted with the action?

[Delaware Dave]

Really? A am thinking about Switching from Nord Electro back to Kurz, because the Nords HP action is too heavy for someone who does not practice enough.

 

Depends on the Kurz model. There's Fatar action, Medeli action, semi-weighted, weighted, lightly weighted. My point is that Kurz uses different actions on different models and even the same model. Example, the PC3 series, the 61 was synth, the 76 was semi-weighted and the 88 was weighted (All Fatar). Other models used Medeli and other companies. So depending what model Kurz you're talking about and the number of keys, you might get a keybed you like, or you might get a keybed you don't like.

[Stefan011]

You are right. I can not afford Forte and it has to have 76semi-weighted keys, so either PC4-7 or SP6-7. I hope, that they will be avilable soon.

[Ken Beaumont]

Did You like the acoustic and electric piano samples and how they interacted with the action?

 

If you were addressing me and the SP4-7. I really liked the electric pianos, the acoustic not so much. They were the quite dated "Triple Strike" pianos. In fact that was the only reason I sold it to buy a Korg SV-1. Everything else about the SP4-7 was excellent. But that's not what's in the PC4 or SP6. My SP6 has much better acoustic pianos. I originally had some issues with velocity response being a bit uneven on the SP6 but they fixed that with an update. As long as I keep the velocity set to "Piano Touch" it works great for me. But that is such a subjective thing.

[Delaware Dave]

"..I really liked the electric pianos, the acoustic not so much. They were the quite dated "Triple Strike" pianos. In fact that was the only reason I sold it to buy a Korg SV-1.."

I just did two acoustic gigs using a bandmate's SV-1. As compared to my PC3 which has the Triple strike, there wasn't one sound on the SV-1 that I preferred over the PC3, including the acoustic piano. My two cents.

[Stefan011]

Yep, I mixed SP4-7 with PC4-7 and SP6-7. They should use names of greek gods and demons, like Korg does.

 

Has anyone tried adding Purgatory Creek counds? Are they compatible with PC4 or Forte only? They sound pretty nice from the site.

https://www.purgatorycreek.com/index.php/vkc-for-kurzweil-forte/

[Jwave]

The Vintage Keyboard Collection sounds for Forte work great on my PC4 and are a big upgrade from the built-in electric pianos, especially the Wurlis IMO. You can also download the excellent Rhodes Mark II for free.

[Stefan011]

Thanks, good to know.

[Fleer]

Italian importer GS is listing a price difference of 280 between PC4 and PC4-7:

GENERALSOUND

Kurzweil PC4 1.980,00

Kurzweil PC4-7 1.700,00

[Synthaholic]

Close enough!

 

 

[video:youtube]

[Mighty Motif Max]

Just ordered one of the 88-note PC4's.

[johnchop]

Just ordered one of the 88-note PC4's.

 

Sweet! Appreciate your thoughts on the action.

 

I absolutely loved the TP40L on the PC3X when I demoed it, but couldn't afford it at the time. Curious how this new action feels.

 

While my PC3 ultimately had some hardware issues (mod wheel, slider, and data entry wheel problems), it was an awesome daily driver that did everything I asked.

 

I do wish the transport controls (and sliders) could send Mackie/HUI commands, to make it a more capable DAW control device. The MMC commands just don't cut it.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Just ordered one of the 88-note PC4's.

 

Sweet! Appreciate your thoughts on the action.

 

I absolutely loved the TP40L on the PC3X when I demoed it, but couldn't afford it at the time. Curious how this new action feels.

 

While my PC3 ultimately had some hardware issues (mod wheel, slider, and data entry wheel problems), it was an awesome daily driver that did everything I asked.

 

I do wish the transport controls (and sliders) could send Mackie/HUI commands, to make it a more capable DAW control device. The MMC commands just don't cut it.

 

Will do. I've never played the TP40L, not sure but I know it has a lot of fans.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Guess what arrived today?

 

 

First impressions: build quality is alright. Obviously it's plastic and I'm more than a little nervous about how it will hold up as I've avoided plastic boards larger than 61 keys most of the time (with the exception of the Yamaha YPG-235 that was my first gig board, which FWIW has held up great for 8 years now). The weight is really nice though. Wondering about how it will show scratches (I am careful but others are not sometimes sadly).

 

The action seems to be what most people have been wondering about. First thing's first - a lot of folks have been thinking that the Medeli K6 is the same action used in the M-Audio Hammer 88 and Hammer 88 Pro (which I recently had). Let's clear this up once and for all: while the internal design may seem similar, THESE ARE NOTHING LIKE EACH OTHER. They are so different from each other in every way that there is no way they would be related. The Hammer 88/Pro action is heavier, slower, has sharp edges, fairly *quiet*, and has less side-to-side wobble, with a different glossy finish. The PC4 action is something else entirely - pretty fast once I got used to it, not as heavy, NO sharp edges that hurt on glisses, has a little side-to-side wobble, noticeably on the last top and bottom notes before the end of the case, and it is easily the loudest action I've ever had on a board. The loudness is most likely due to the plastic case. It isn't actually the keys themselves that are loud - there seems to be a piece inside the case at the end of the keys (guessing it's the weight) that moves up and down when you play - the noise is that hitting the top of the case or mechanism, which then echoes through the plastic case. It's not unbearably loud, just surprisingly so.

 

The PC4 has something that you can hear hit some pad or mechanism inside when playing, but the Hammer 88 Pro action does not do that. I'd say the Hammer 88 Pro action wins as being a little closer to an acoustic piano, but the PC4 action is better for playing lots of instrument parts. The PC4 seems to be ever so slightly harder to press down at the rear of the keys, but the Hammer 88 Pro action is totally even across the key front to back.

 

Regardless, the Hammer 88/Pro and Medeli K6/PC4 actions are ENTIRELY different. So different that the only real similarity IMO is that they're weighted and 88-note.

 

Just ordered one of the 88-note PC4's.

 

Sweet! Appreciate your thoughts on the action.

 

I absolutely loved the TP40L on the PC3X when I demoed it, but couldn't afford it at the time. Curious how this new action feels.

 

While my PC3 ultimately had some hardware issues (mod wheel, slider, and data entry wheel problems), it was an awesome daily driver that did everything I asked.

 

I do wish the transport controls (and sliders) could send Mackie/HUI commands, to make it a more capable DAW control device. The MMC commands just don't cut it.

 

Okay John. Let me sit with it a few days to acclimate to it further.

 

 

Let me say this much. I unboxed the PC4 this afternoon, set it up on my stand, put my hands on the keys, and thought, "Oh man, I don't like these at all!". I've never felt an action that felt quite like the PC4 does. Being a college student I had little time to play it right then, so after about 10 minutes I had to quit. Once I had time about five hours later, I turned it on and started navigating through sounds and playing it. I changed the velocity curve from "Linear" to "Piano Touch" (the same one I used on my PC3 actually), and started playing. I'm not sure if it was the velocity curve change that helped or what, but I went from "This is really not good but what choice do I have" to "Man, I like this!". I'm not kidding, I actually really like this action.

 

I know I like an action when I play and I don't even think about the action; I think and the music comes out, and the action isn't even there mentally. That's not something I experience often - only my Motif XF8 Balanced Hammer action and the Kawai RHIII action in the ES8/MP7SE have done that. Yet this isn't in that league as a piano-like hammer action. But I really connect with it.

 

I'll acclimate to it a little further and get back to this thread in, say, a week or so. By then I should have a better idea of what to talk about. But yeah, the action was a complete surprise initially, just being so "different" from other hammer actions I've played. But yeah, after coming back to it some hours later and adjusting a velocity curve, it's really nice!

[Mighty Motif Max]

To be clear: I quite like this board as of now. The action just took me a little time and a velocity curve change to where I really like it.

[pawelsz]

https://r47ts42e755ewve24ye2so7uzq-ac5fdsxevxq4s5y-m-midifan-com.translate.goog/article_body.php?id=6540

 

The article is about SP1 but mentions the K6 action and three sensor K8 action. So action of PC4 can be Medeli K8. Medeli is called Midori for some reason in the article probably translation issues.

[Bif_]

To be clear: I quite like this board as of now. The action just took me a little time and a velocity curve change to where I really like it.

Max,

 

How would you compare the sound pallette of the PC3 to the PC4? How different/better/unique is the PC4?

[bfields]

The loudness is most likely due to the plastic case. It isn't actually the keys themselves that are loud - there seems to be a piece inside the case at the end of the keys (guessing it's the weight) that moves up and down when you play - the noise is that hitting the top of the case or mechanism, which then echoes through the plastic case. It's not unbearably loud, just surprisingly so.

 

As far as I can tell, every lightweight hammer action is noisy. (Somebody set me straight if there's an exception.)

 

My family thinks it's pretty funny when I practice with headphones, as all they hear is "clunk, clunk, clunkity-clunkity-clunk." It mostly doesn't bug me. One exception is glissandos, where the mechanical noise often seems to dominate the music if I'm practicing quietly. Good sound isolating headphones help.

[Mighty Motif Max]

To be clear: I quite like this board as of now. The action just took me a little time and a velocity curve change to where I really like it.

Max,

 

How would you compare the sound pallette of the PC3 to the PC4? How different/better/unique is the PC4?

 

So far the improvements seem to be mainly the acoustic pianos (which are MUCH improved over the PC3 Triple Strike piano, particularly the Yamaha 7' grand), and the Rhodes. The other sounds are mostly from the PC3 + Kore64 or based on the same samples. If you're going to use the board for a lot of piano, the PC4 wins by a huge margin (and still has the Triple Strike piano on tap if you want it). Some of the sounds seem to have been improved from the PC3, namely FX programming on the electric bass patches (which aren't Kurzweil's strong suit anyway) and some of the synth sounds. The FM engine is good to have. I haven't messed around with it at all yet as far as programming goes, but it gives you some nice synth basses and sounds with snappy envelopes that would otherwise be harder to get. I'm not a huge fan of the included presets that were programmed for it but that's to a person's taste.

 

I do think the orchestral sounds, namely the strings and ensemble combinations, actually sounded a little better on the PC3. Not sure why that would be given they're the same programs, but it seems like the string element of the ensemble patches is at a lower level than it was on the PC3 (i.e. you hear more snare drum and brass or whatnot than strings than you would on the PC3). The KB3 Hammond sounds are fine, but seem mostly unchanged from the PC3 (definitely not better). I actually think the leslie sim was a little better on the PC3 on certain programs. It still beats out Roland, Yamaha, and Korg though IMO.

 

Since my understanding is that the PC4 can load in Forte SE and PC3 sounds and sound libraries for the Forte and Forte SE, I'm going to be loading up some of the Purgatory Creek sounds, namely the free MKII Rhodes and guitar sounds, as well as Dave Weiser's soundset and the various Forte Soundbanks available from Kurzweil for the Forte and Forte SE, that I'm under the impression are NOT included in the presets. That's one area where this board is still exceptionally weak - guitars (and basses), especially nylon guitars. Korg is about as bad. I might load in the PC3 soundset for a few of the sounds that weren't ported over as well.

 

One nice thing is having the nine buttons available to tweak sounds on the fly - I've assembled a nice utility piano based on the Studio 7' program that gives me a bunch of options for sound changes based on just those button presses in that one program.

 

Long story short, the PC4 is hugely improved regarding pianos, and has a better Rhodes as well. The other sounds are either the same or slightly improved/reprogrammed versions with the exception of some of the orchestral sounds, which sounded a little better on the PC3. It also has the Kore64 data and some of those programs.

 

EDIT: After spending some more time with the synth programs, I think most, if not all, of them are improved over the PC3. They sound cleaner and better, more polished. There are some nice new programs hidden in there too that will fit in great with modern electronic music. Also they literally have a sine comp patch for Clean Bandit's song "Rather Be" in there - points for that.

[AnotherScott]

I do think the orchestral sounds, namely the strings and ensemble combinations, actually sounded a little better on the PC3.

...I might load in the PC3 soundset for a few of the sounds that weren't ported over as well.

I'd be interested to know, if you bring over some PC3 programs that *are* already in the PC4, whether they then still sound like the PC3 versions you prefer, or if they then sound indistinguishable from what's already in the PC4. If the reason the PC4 version doesn't sound as good to you is because they tweaked it, altered its effects, whatever, it could be that loading in the actual PC3 version could give you the version you prefer. But if it's the exact same program and the PC4 just interprets it a little differently, then the version you bring over should sound no different than what you're already getting out of it. It would be an interesting test to see which is the case.

[Mighty Motif Max]

I do think the orchestral sounds, namely the strings and ensemble combinations, actually sounded a little better on the PC3.

...I might load in the PC3 soundset for a few of the sounds that weren't ported over as well.

I'd be interested to know, if you bring over some PC3 programs that *are* already in the PC4, whether they then still sound like the PC3 versions you prefer, or if they then sound indistinguishable from what's already in the PC4. If the reason the PC4 version doesn't sound as good to you is because they tweaked it, altered its effects, whatever, it could be that loading in the actual PC3 version could give you the version you prefer. But if it's the exact same program and the PC4 just interprets it a little differently, then the version you bring over should sound no different than what you're already getting out of it. It would be an interesting test to see which is the case.

 

Will do at some point when I can get my PC3 files off the XD card (for my own programs). There's also a PC3 factory file I believe in one of the Facebook groups that I should go find.

[ElmerJFudd]

[video:youtube]

[Mighty Motif Max]

Really enjoying the Purgatory Creek sounds (I also bought the Vintage Keyboard Collection, just for the clavinet pickup options (I use AD for most things and Kurzweil didn't have that in the PC4) and Wurlitzer 200A). I'm actually really liking the free Rhodes MKII, which is a noticeable improvement over the factory Rhodes MK1, which isn't bad to begin with. The files are for the Forte but they work fine with the PC4, as have other Forte programs I've come across. The only thing that can be a bit weird is FX chains at times, as it seems like some of the chain locations might differ between the Forte and PC4 as I've seen a few sounds where an FX chain was listed as "not found".

 

Here's a quick jazzy rendition of an old hymn I put together with the MKII Rhodes (the "Azure" preset) plus a PC4 drum kit and bass patch.

 

[video:youtube]

[Dave Weiser]

Really enjoying the Purgatory Creek sounds (I also bought the Vintage Keyboard Collection, just for the clavinet pickup options (I use AD for most things and Kurzweil didn't have that in the PC4) and Wurlitzer 200A). I'm actually really liking the free Rhodes MKII, which is a noticeable improvement over the factory Rhodes MK1, which isn't bad to begin with. The files are for the Forte but they work fine with the PC4, as have other Forte programs I've come across. The only thing that can be a bit weird is FX chains at times, as it seems like some of the chain locations might differ between the Forte and PC4 as I've seen a few sounds where an FX chain was listed as "not found".

 

Here's a quick jazzy rendition of an old hymn I put together with the MKII Rhodes (the "Azure" preset) plus a PC4 drum kit and bass patch.

 

[video:youtube]

 

Great to see/hear you playing the new axe!

[Mighty Motif Max]

Really enjoying the Purgatory Creek sounds (I also bought the Vintage Keyboard Collection, just for the clavinet pickup options (I use AD for most things and Kurzweil didn't have that in the PC4) and Wurlitzer 200A). I'm actually really liking the free Rhodes MKII, which is a noticeable improvement over the factory Rhodes MK1, which isn't bad to begin with. The files are for the Forte but they work fine with the PC4, as have other Forte programs I've come across. The only thing that can be a bit weird is FX chains at times, as it seems like some of the chain locations might differ between the Forte and PC4 as I've seen a few sounds where an FX chain was listed as "not found".

 

Here's a quick jazzy rendition of an old hymn I put together with the MKII Rhodes (the "Azure" preset) plus a PC4 drum kit and bass patch.

 

[video:youtube]

 

Great to see/hear you playing the new axe!

 

It's a great board. Really good finger-to-ear connection with the action too, unlike a lot of boards I've played/owned. I find that I can translate my playing over to my school's concert grands more easily than with the previous hammer-action board I had, which is a huge plus for practicing.

 

Ain't it a thing of beauty...

 

 

Seriously, I haven't had this much fun with a board in years. And the UI was really well thought-out. Much better than my PC3 from a "sit down and play" standpoint too. I've only needed to crack open the manual a few times so far for parameter checks. That's how I know Kurz did a good job with the UI, particularly since I'm not a longtime Kurzweil user. Thanks again for your help in making this happen Dave!

[CEB]

So .... The Medelli feels good?

[Mighty Motif Max]

So .... The Medelli feels good?

 

Yeah. My first time putting hands on it was really strange because it has a slightly odd mechanical feel when playing it acoustically (i.e. without sounds, a way I like to test keybeds). Mainly the sensation of whatever weights are behind the panel swinging and hitting something threw me off. But when I came back to it, I liked it. It's a pretty fast hammer action, on the lighter side too, which I like (for comparison I find the CP88 NWX action heavy and the Roland PHA-50 action slow). It's not quite in the league of my Motif XF8 balanced hammer action, but it's better than many hammer actions I've played, *once you turn the keyboard on*. The way the sound engine responds to the keys is a huge part of its playability. It's nice when playing external modules too. I find I like the "Piano Touch" velocity curve, as the others max out too quickly or take too much effort to trigger higher velocities, but there are plenty of curves in there to experiment with.

 

All in all it's a light, fast hammer action but it has a good weight to it as well. It plays and responds like a real instrument, though perhaps not 100% like a grand piano (but those are so varied that I prefer the PC4 action over some grands I've played). It's interesting. Playability wise it's now my third favorite action, with the Kawai RHIII being #1, Yamaha BH being #2, and this Medeli action being #3. I like being able to translate right to our concert grands at the college with minimal adaptation needed.

 

One thing to note - some folks said the keys bounce. Maybe it's the SP6 that's more that way, I don't know, but this has zero bounce to the keys upon returning, which is a good thing.

 

So yeah, for me, it feels good and responds great. It does NOT feel cheap to me, which is nice. In its price range I would honestly say it beats out the Yamaha GHS in the MODX8, the Korg NH in the Krome 88, and the Roland Ivory Feel G in the FA-08. The GHS is closest, but the PC4 action feels more substantial.

[CEB]

If mechanical action noise bothers you then you need to play louder. ð

 

Thanks for the review. ð