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GSi VB3m for Android!


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What is the latency option supposed to do? Wouldn't the goal be to minimize latency? What does the option provide and what are pros/cons of enabling/disabling this option?

With most apps, if you're getting crackles in your audio, you can increase the buffer to get rid of them, at the cost of additional latency. Previously, the VB3m buffer size was fixed, at what the app determined was best. But if the app "guessed wrong" and you were getting crackles, there was no way to over-ride its settings. It sounds like he's added the ability to choose the setting that works for you, just as most other apps do, instead of locking you into the app's best guess. (In theory, this could also work the other way... you might be able to get by with a LOWER bugger/latency setting than what the app had guessed at, too.)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Why doesnt he have a custom shop where different configurations of his items (dual manual, single manual, drawbars, gemini, other items he's created, choosing your own keybed) can be offered?

 

Staggering logistics and costs come to mind... but you can still dream. I like the concept that Viscount 70s brings to the table. Imagine a world where you could design your own board from a variety of pre-fab components, have it come as a kit to assemble your own. GMLab meets GSi meets Crumar.

____________________________________
Rod

Here for the gear.

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The one keyboard that is missing from the offerings is a single manual controller with 73 or 76 semi-weighted keys in order to extend the keyboard for acoustic/electric piano, drawbars and an optional Gemini module (I call this keyboard the the Electro killer). Many people have asked for this keyboard option but it's never been delivered. I'll bet that his most recent highest selling item is the Mojo 61. When the Mojo came out it was a dual manual organ; people wanted a single manual keyboard. When Guido was asked if he would ever consider a single manual Mojo, his answer was "Nojo". Look how successful that keyboard turned out to be. As a user and customer the lack of a single manual 73/76 key controller with drawbars and a Gemini module frustrates me. Why doesnt he have a custom shop where different configurations of his items (dual manual, single manual, drawbars, gemini, other items he's created, choosing your own keybed) can be offered?

 

Yes that would be the Electro killer and like you I hope that one day Crumar might release it. And it's interesting that the Mojo 61 happened despite Guido's original comments as I think he also said (some years ago mind) he would never release anything on iOS! So we have the Mojo 61 and now VB3m on iOS. In the meantime I still think 61/73 controller running the Gemini instruments on a mobile device might be a step in that direction. However, I don't think bolting a D9x onto a 61 waterfall keyboard, even with pitch and mod wheels, is going to cut it [Edit] as a general controller. Good for VB3m though. But a 73 key single manual DMC-122 would work for me as well - with or without a Gemini.

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Ok I jammed on the update. My main gripe was latency. On my Sam note 10 plus it is improved. About where b3x is. Not snappy tight but at least not lagging so as to confuse you and put you out of time. This is with setting the buffers to 128 or better yet 64. I ran at 64 for 10 or 15 minutes and had no buffer clicks ect.. the other improvements are nice but not a deal killer for me.

I think run in the background when checked adds back a tad of latency. Maybe the "screen no timeout" app I use adds a little latency or maybe I imagined it. It would be a nice future improvement to have a no sleep checkbox. After 10minutes my phone goes into screen timeout and vb3m goes down with it.

A bummer if you're in the middle of a song.

FunMachine.

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I think run in the background when checked adds back a tad of latency. Maybe the "screen no timeout" app I use adds a little latency or maybe I imagined it.

 

If you want to try to measure the difference, I've done that before by recording the sound output simultaneously with the sounds of my fingers hitting screen or keys: see http://www.fieldses.org/blog/?q=node/373 or http://www.fieldses.org/blog/?q=node/374.

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The update is now on the Apple store. Just rebought it and with the new midi map page I can now change all the CCs to suit my Electro 6.

 

Hats off to Guido for getting this update sorted so soon. B-3X now has some serious competition and VB3m is much much cheaper.

 

Cheers

 

John

Nord Electro 6D 61, Wurlitzer EP200A, Neo Mini Vent, EV ZLX12P, QSC CP8.

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Just did the update and my CX3 turned into a Mojo! Incredible. Saved some presets, all accessible from the Korg front panel. Everything is mapped, with the exception of the volume (could not get this to work) and the possibility to alternate both drawbar sets. But I do a workaround saving diferent registrations next to the other and the sound changes when I press the registration button, with a tiny hiccup. Good enough for recording, at least. Great, great job GSI.

My drawbars go to eleven.

Gear: Roland VR-09, Nord Electro 2 61, Korg CX-3. Hear my music: facebook.com/smokestoneband

 

 

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The Midi Mapping has the added feature of a Min and Max. So I can use my Electro for the Leslie as slow = 43 and fast = 85 if you are using the dedicated rotor switch or half moon. Percussion also syncs perfectly to the electro despite it only having one button to select the four options.

 

Great update Guido!

 

Could you be persuaded to release Tine, Reed and Clav models in the future? Like a mobile version of Key Performer or even the models from the Gemini.

 

https://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=38

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can the android version be downloaded and applied to multiple devices or does that require two purchases? I'd like this on my phone and an android pad? Is this feasible?

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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can the android version be downloaded and applied to multiple devices or does that require two purchases? I'd like this on my phone and an android pad? Is this feasible?

 

Yep, just checked, it works for me.

 

From what I've seen, Android apps always follow the account, not the device.

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Just a note about how VB3m receives program changes. Unlike the Midi Map which totally customisable (though a save MIDI map option would be a bonus for some) the VB3 receives program changes in OMNI mode. So it's not tied to the basic channel and listens on all 16 channels. So if you are thinking of using with your live rig that might be an issue.
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VB3 receives program changes in OMNI mode. So it's not tied to the basic channel and listens on all 16 channels. So if you are thinking of using with your live rig that might be an issue.

Ooh, yeah, I hope he addresses that. Otherwise the app almost might as well go back to having no program changes at all, since it means you can't use that feature unless it's the only "sound module" app you're running. Still useful (since some people will only be using it by itself anyway), but quite a limitation, if you can't use Program Change on any other app you may be running along with it (Korg Module, a piano/EP app, a synth, whatever). If I'm understanding correctly, for some people, then, this could be worse than before. Before, if you were running it with another app, you could send a program change to that other app, and VB3m would just do nothing; now if you send a program change to that other app, there might be no way to prevent it from changing your VB3m sound as well. But maybe hosting VB3m as an AUv3 could give you a way around this? Anyway, I don't think this is how Guido would want it to work, I'm guessing it's an oversight and will be addressed.

 

a save MIDI map option would be a bonus for some

Oh yes, that's a feature I've posted about wishing B-3X had. If you own more than one clonewheel (and who doesn't? ;-) ), you might need one set of MIDI CCs set up to run it from one, and a different set to run it from another, and it would be a pain to have to redefine all your drawbar/percussion/CV/etc. settings every time you wanted to switch from one controller to another.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Just a note about how VB3m receives program changes. Unlike the Midi Map which totally customisable (though a save MIDI map option would be a bonus for some) the VB3 receives program changes in OMNI mode. So it's not tied to the basic channel and listens on all 16 channels. So if you are thinking of using with your live rig that might be an issue.

Damn......

I was thinking of using the VB3m for organ and coupling it with Gemini and using the two DSP's of the Gemini for two non-organ voices while I was playing organ from VB3m; this does throw a monkey wrench into the equation. It's always something.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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Not sure what I'm doing wrong here. Want to set up mapping to yamaha reface YC.

 

Tried midi learn. Double tap on first column parameter name but nothing happens. So then I tried manually entering the cc value for a drawbar. Found the CC numbers in the Yamaha manual online. Still doesn't make the on-screen drawbar work.

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Not sure what I'm doing wrong here. Want to set up mapping to yamaha reface YC.

 

Tried midi learn. Double tap on first column parameter name but nothing happens. So then I tried manually entering the cc value for a drawbar. Found the CC numbers in the Yamaha manual online. Still doesn't make the on-screen drawbar work.

Just a guess... are you triggering it using the YC61's MIDI zone function? IIRC, that won't work because the drawbars don't send MIDI in that function. You have to trigger it with the YC's organ section enabled, just as if you were using the YC's native organ sound. (You just have to turn the volume knob down on that section, so you'll hear the external organ sound instead of the internal one.)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Not sure what I'm doing wrong here. Want to set up mapping to yamaha reface YC.

.

... are you triggering it using the YC61's MIDI zone function?

 

Details, details. :poke:

Kurzweil Forte, Yamaha Motif ES7, Muse Receptor 2 Pro Max, Neo Ventilator
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Yeah it's the mini Yamaha Reface YC. Hoping to get this working as my mobile campsite setup, all battery powered.

If you were going to run the vb3m audio back into the YC aux input you are likely to get a usb ground loop hum. There are 2 current threads talking about this as I post.

FunMachine.

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What is the latency option supposed to do? Wouldn't the goal be to minimize latency? What does the option provide and what are pros/cons of enabling/disabling this option?

With most apps, if you're getting crackles in your audio, you can increase the buffer to get rid of them, at the cost of additional latency. Previously, the VB3m buffer size was fixed, at what the app determined was best. But if the app "guessed wrong" and you were getting crackles, there was no way to over-ride its settings. It sounds like he's added the ability to choose the setting that works for you, just as most other apps do, instead of locking you into the app's best guess. (In theory, this could also work the other way... you might be able to get by with a LOWER bugger/latency setting than what the app had guessed at, too.)

 

Downloaded latest v1.1 for iOS onto my 16GB iPad Mini Gen 4. Runs great, although I was still getting some of crackles that others have reported. Changing the buffer settings didn't seem to make it better or worse (they're just tiny little pops; almost unnoticeable if you've got the percussion click cranked way up, but they're there.)

 

Had some fun setting up a two-manual "organ" with my Legend 70s on the bottom, and a Roland A-49 on top: Both boards plugged into a USB hub, then the hub into an Apple Camera Connector, then the ACC (Lightning connector) into the iPad Mini. Set the Legend MIDI channel to 2. Voile!

 

I think the Legend will allow me to assign a different MIDI channel to each side of a split -- will have to try that tonite with VB3m to see if I can achieve a two-manual config using just the Legend.

Legend '70s Compact, Jupiter-Xm, Studiologic Numa X 73

 

 

 

 

 

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I think the Legend will allow me to assign a different MIDI channel to each side of a split -- will have to try that tonite with VB3m to see if I can achieve a two-manual config using just the Legend.

 

I"m sure the Legend does the separate channels either side of the split. But you can split the VB3m on the Settings page so you don"t need to worry about midi channels. There is a slider to shift the split point over a 2 octave range.

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Just a note about how VB3m receives program changes. Unlike the Midi Map which totally customisable (though a save MIDI map option would be a bonus for some) the VB3 receives program changes in OMNI mode. So it's not tied to the basic channel and listens on all 16 channels. So if you are thinking of using with your live rig that might be an issue.

Damn......

I was thinking of using the VB3m for organ and coupling it with Gemini and using the two DSP's of the Gemini for two non-organ voices while I was playing organ from VB3m; this does throw a monkey wrench into the equation. It's always something.

I spent the afternoon integrating VB3m into my live rig but it"s not a worker as no matter how I wire it up it"s picking up program changes intended for other keys. So I have emailed Guido asking if he can address it in the next update.

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Got the iOS version updated last night. One switch inverts all of the midi cc's for the drawbars. Works perfectly with my Studiologic Numa Compact 2X, now. Happy dance!
I just picked up the IOS version a few minutes ago and briefly played it off an old Iphone 6s from my Numa Compact 2x and it worked great with negligible latency.

 

Presumably like you (?), I flipped the switch in the app's settings for inverting the midi cc's for the drawbars but it didn't work for me on my Numa Compact 2x. I'll play with it more later when I have more time. Regardless, IMO VB3m is a good deal for just $14.

Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2)

 

 

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Just a note about how VB3m receives program changes. Unlike the Midi Map which totally customisable (though a save MIDI map option would be a bonus for some) the VB3 receives program changes in OMNI mode. So it's not tied to the basic channel and listens on all 16 channels. So if you are thinking of using with your live rig that might be an issue.

Damn......

I was thinking of using the VB3m for organ and coupling it with Gemini and using the two DSP's of the Gemini for two non-organ voices while I was playing organ from VB3m; this does throw a monkey wrench into the equation. It's always something.

I spent the afternoon integrating VB3m into my live rig but it"s not a worker as no matter how I wire it up it"s picking up program changes intended for other keys. So I have emailed Guido asking if he can address it in the next update.

My understanding from pinging other users on other sites is that controllers are picked up on OMNI (meaning it listens to all 16 channels) however I'm being told that you can change this to a specific channel, i.e. change OMNI to say channel 1. I'm also being told that the upper lower and pedals keybeds are fixed and assigned to channels 1, 2, and 3. So presumably if you can change your controller to not transmit midi 'program changes' on channel 1 then you should be covered. On the PC3 (which you said yours is down for repair) you can go into MIDI mode and change the basic midi channel to channel 1, then tell the PC3 to ONLY send Local on channel 1, no program changes while in program mode would be sent to VB3m. If you create a setup you can direct the setup to channel 1 and only have that setup send MIDI on Channel 1 for upper, 2 for lower. You could also reset the PC3 in MIDI mode to send on some extraneous channel, like channel 12. VB3m would not receive program changes on channel 12 so no midi program changes in program mode would ever be received by VB3m. then create a setup for VB3m and transmit that setup on channel 1. Theoretically this could be the workaround. Not sure about your controller and whether these options are available to you on your controller or not. I think this will be my workaround to get it working in the live rig. I'm about ready to pull the trigger now that I think that I have it mapped out to theoretically work. I also plan on purchasing a used Android phone, strip it down so nothing is running but VB3m and only peripherals necessary to run VB3m; everything else shut down. If the processor in the phone isn't being competing with for other resource needs because it's stripped down that should help with latency and audio glitches since it will be dedicated to only running VB3m. Cost of used Android phone is < $50 (actually I think i have an old phone tucked away as a backup); VB3m App $15; OTP plug $5 and USB/MIDI host $40. Total cost $110 ($60 if I use my old phone). Total cost to purchase a Mojo desktop $900. $110 vs. $900? no brainer.....

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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Not sure about your controller and whether these options are available to you on your controller or not. I think this will be my workaround to get it working in the live rig. I'm about ready to pull the trigger now that I think that I have it mapped out to theoretically work. I also plan on purchasing a used Android phone, strip it down so nothing is running but VB3m and only peripherals necessary to run VB3m; everything else shut down. If the processor in the phone isn't being competing with for other resource needs because it's stripped down that should help with latency and audio glitches since it will be dedicated to only running VB3m. Cost of used Android phone is < $50 (actually I think i have an old phone tucked away as a backup); VB3m App $15; OTP plug $5 and USB/MIDI host $40. Total cost $110 ($60 if I use my old phone). Total cost to purchase a Mojo desktop $900. $110 vs. $900? no brainer.....

 

Well Dave I am sure Guido will do another update in the next few weeks. [Edit: Guido says it's on his to do list for the next update]. But I still don"t think your idea will work because any Program changes on any channel going into the Tablet/Phone will be picked up by VB3m because:

 

1) Program changes are always received on all channels

2) VB3m does not advertise it"s port (Midi Input) to other apps

3) you can"t map it to a specific MIDI input or app

 

Model D and B3-x both have excellent Audio/MIDI options have a look at the screenshots.

 

BTW I don"t have a PC3 but I am using a CP73 which has 4 completely programmable zones.

My current is solution is based on the fact that MIDI is serial. The CP sends its Zone information in order - Lowest Zone first. So if I allocate Model D to Zone 1 and VB3m to a higher zone I can set the Program Change. VB3m will change to the last PC it receives.

 

My zone allocation is now:

Zone 1 = Model D Channel 1 - sends a prog change to Model D and VB3m picks it up too but...

Zone 2 = Module Pro Channel 2 - also sends a prog change and VB3m picks it up too but...

Zone 3 = VB3m Channel 3 (Upper) - gets the correct prog change here.

Zone 4 = VB3m Channel 4 (Lower)

 

I think using it inside an AUv3 host like Camelot or AUM then routing etc. is more flexible and gets around some of the issues I"m having. But for live I prefer to avoid using additional apps and work in standalone mode - it"s just one less thing to worry about. But yes in terms of cost it"s a no brainer but I only have experience of iOS - I don"t know how stable/reliable Android is for music apps.

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Well Dave I am sure Guido will do another update in the next few weeks. [Edit: Guido says it's on his to do list for the next update].

What specifically is on his to-do list for the next update?

 

I also plan on purchasing a used Android phone, strip it down so nothing is running but VB3m and only peripherals necessary to run VB3m; everything else shut down.

I'd consider springing for a used iPhone (or iPod Touch, which is the same as an iPhone except lacking cell and GPS connectivity), which probably wouldn't cost all that much more, and will probably be the better performing, more reliable platform, and also one that would be more flexible for other MIDI uses should you ever want them. (Better yet, an iPad, but that will probably be a little pricier still.) I'd also be hesitant to assume anything about VB3m performance on a particular Android phone without trying (or hearing from someone who had tried) that specific model. (Plus so many models can't run the newer versions of Android you may want for this.)

 

On an iPhone, I'd look for a 6S (regular or Plus) or original series SE. Those are the only models that can run the newest OS but also have a headphone jack. The older 4S and any of the 5 series also at least run an OS version that is new enough to be able to run the app, though besides not being updatable to the current OS (which ay limit their ability to run future updates to the app at some point), their slower processors may mean weaker performance. Sometimes you can find used iPhones on eBay that are dirt chip because the cell part is broken (i.e. they run apps, but they can't make calls), which would be fine for this use. One caveat about an iPhone... there is a "battery life" parameter you can check, and if it says battery life is under 80%, performance will be slowed, so in that case, you'd also have to factor in the cost of a bettery replacement. Sellers of used models should be able to tell you what the battery life is at before you buy (it's often mentioned in the listing).

 

On an iPod Touch, the current (7th generation) is the model of choice, though it should also run on the 5th and 6th gen, with the same caveats as older iPhones regarding slower performance and inability to update to the newest OS. I don't know whether the Touch has the same 80% battery issue that the iPhone has. (I've read that the iPad does not.)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Well Dave I am sure Guido will do another update in the next few weeks. [Edit: Guido says it's on his to do list for the next update].

What specifically is on his to-do list for the next update?

 

He didn't provide any other info but a list sounds promising!

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