Two board rig for cover band work

[timwat]

Eric's recent thread on stage piano + clone wheel options got me thinking (and thanks, Eric - great thread that I'm following with interest).

 

Because most of my electric gigs are dance / corporate covers work, my needs are slightly different than piano downstairs, clone wheel upstairs.

 

I've been using Kronos downstairs and Wave upstairs, but curious what the latest thinking is. There are lots of options, from new Kurzweil boards, Yamaha's CP and YC lines, the MODX units, and so much more.

 

1) overall weight and schlep is a big consideration

2) two boards only

3) need to have convincing AP and EP

4) decent organ needed, but this is NOT an organ-centric kind of configuration

5) Synths are required, as is occasional sampling

 

It's funny, I had sort of reached the point of saying "when the pandemic eases, I'm going to be a lot more selective about gig life" - and now I'm, flooded with calls and date requests. The flood gates have opened and I'm thinking about rig changes again (perhaps unwise...but that's why we have this forum LOL)

[ABECK]

Crumar Seven downstairs, Roland Fantom 6 up top. (not ideal for organ....but hey)

[jeffincltnc]

I am going with 2 Nords in this situation. Stage 3 Compact on the bottom and Wave 2 on the top because I find this setup REALLY light to carry for a flagship build quality and REALLY easy to operate during a gig. It does reduce the schlep factor of a Kronos. Yamaha CP/YC are also good here, in my opinion. MODX and Kurzweil PC4 have great sounds for the $$$ but are mostly plastic and use cheaper build qualities than their flagships.

[AnotherScott]

I've been using Kronos downstairs and Wave upstairs, but curious what the latest thinking is. There are lots of options, from new Kurzweil boards, Yamaha's CP and YC lines, the MODX units, and so much more.

 

1) overall weight and schlep is a big consideration

2) two boards only

3) need to have convincing AP and EP

4) decent organ needed, but this is NOT an organ-centric kind of configuration

5) Synths are required, as is occasional sampling

Your Wave is lightweight and already handles #5 nicely, and costs you nothing ince you already have it.

 

You could replace the Kronos with a Kurzweil PC4/PC4-7 which will handle #3 and #4 at lighter weight than your Kronos.

[DJkeys]

I am going with 2 Nords in this situation. Stage 3 Compact on the bottom and Wave 2 on the top because I find this setup REALLY light to carry for a flagship build quality and REALLY easy to operate during a gig. It does reduce the schlep factor of a Kronos. Yamaha CP/YC are also good here, in my opinion. MODX and Kurzweil PC4 have great sounds for the $$$ but are mostly plastic and use cheaper build qualities than their flagships.

 

This is the exact rig I use. Checks all the boxes and weighs 40 pounds total. Both boards have synth and sample playback, the Stage has great Pianos and Organs, and the Wave 2 is four synths in one. For example, Just Dance by Lady Gaga has six different synth sounds. I have two of them split in the Stage, and the other four on a single layer each on the Wave 2

 

-dj

[marczellm]

Just gonna put in a vote for Roland gear. I've had the JUNO-G for 10 years now and it's excellent for both rompler and synth work. The later models: Jupiter-50 or FA-07 and now the Fantom have each improved on both of those fronts and I always viewed them as perfect for all-in-one cover band work. I always found the pianos, EPs and organs just "okay", but the Fantom now supposedly has a V-Piano engine, I have to check that out.

[eric]

Nice thread!

 

As a Nord fan, I like the Stage 3 + Nord Wave option. I've also been growing fond of some of the MODX and Montage demos I've watched, although I've never played one in person. Perhaps you could consider one of the Yamaha CP or YC boards as well + Nord Wave.

 

Regards,

Eric

[Mighty Motif Max]

Just thinking here...how about a Kurzweil PC4/Forte (your pick depending on weight) on the bottom with a Roland Fantom 7 up top? The only thing I'm not knowledgeable about on those boards is sampling. Kurzweil gives you good pianos/electric pianos and a good organ, lots of midi options, audio inputs if getting the PC4, FM synthesis, 256 poly on the PC4, top shelf orchestral stuff, and then the Fantom has all sorts of expansions from Roland covering modern synth stuff plus SRX boards, plus now their analog synth recreations. Plus V-Piano with unlimited polyphony, etc and a semi-weighted action that people seem to love (other than the aftertouch).

 

If weight wasn't as much of a big deal I'd stick with the Kronos you have and add a Montage 7 or Fantom 7.

[jeffincltnc]

I have a Fantom 8 as my main weighted studio instrument (with a Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S61 above it). Fantom 7 is going to weigh as much as an 88 key weighted Yamaha, Kawai, etc. stage piano and almost twice thei weight of an unweighted Nord. It's pretty deep in the dimensions. Most of what really differentiates the Fantom (for me) is the workstation features and the workflow of controlling so much of Logic Pro X and Mainstage from the instrument. I don't think I would personally gig with the Fantom because they are big and heavy but great for home.

 

I liked the Forte 7 a lot. It's a great gigging instrument and I always got it to sound like whatever I needed except for maybe the Leslie sim.

[BEMcCut]

My current set-up is a Yamaha MODX7 and Roland VR-09. Covers everything I need for the classic rock bands I play with. Very lightweight easy to move around.

[RABid]

My favorite 2 keyboard setup was a Kronos 73 on the bottom and a Kronos 61 on top. Either keyboard could make any sound, and if one went out I was covered.

[rickzjamm]

FA-06 on top & Yamaha YC88 on the bottom floor... light weight yet powerful rig.

[allan_evett]

I've been using Kronos downstairs and Wave upstairs, but curious what the latest thinking is. There are lots of options, from new Kurzweil boards, Yamaha's CP and YC lines, the MODX units, and so much more.

 

 

Your Wave is lightweight and already handles #5 nicely, and costs you nothing ince you already have it.

 

You could replace the Kronos with a Kurzweil PC4/PC4-7 which will handle #3 and #4 at lighter weight than your Kronos.

 

I was thinking the same regarding the PC4. I suspect you'd enjoy that keyboard. Gigs are coming on strongly, and though I'm going to start out with an RD-88 on the bottom tier that's subject to change;and if that happens the PC4 is the strongest contender.

 

A 61-key Kronos top-tier (using the Programs/Combinations you already have) could be an attractive option; or to go even lighter, a Nautilus 61. Or upgrading the Wave to a Wave 2 (The 4-zone layout and expanded sound choices are very tempting). I saw the Fantom mentioned earlier. Though much is made of production side of the instrument, it's an insane, player's keyboard.

[agitato]

For light weight easy to move/setup, most cover band gigs, I use a VR-09 on the bottom and a Microstation on top.

[David R]

I use a Nord Electro 5D73 on the bottom and Novation Launchkey controlling Mainstage on top.

 

I'm very tempted and curious about a setup of Nord Stage 3 on the bottom and either a Prophet Rev 2 or Hydrasynth on top. The Nord/Prophet combo has become common among the pop/R&B/session cats in town for good reason.

[nursers]

This is my exact situation and I've gone through a few iterations:

 

First attempt: Kronos LS 88 plus Nord Electro: Kronos too heavy and also too long for some of the tighter-spaced gigs

 

 

Second attempt: Crumar Seven plus MODX7: worked extremely well and don't need to bring a separate stand. Downside: Crumar is too low with its legs to be able to stand and play your top board.

 

Third attempt: MODX7 plus Arturia Keylab (running via Mainstage / softsynths). Works really well, I have MODX for on-board sounds and Keylab for software -based sounds. No real downsides, BUT in spite of that I'm about to move to:

 

Fourth iteration: MODX7 and YC61: YC will arrive this week and will probably revert to all on-board sounds with YC covering Piano / Organ and MODX everything else. Part of me wants to keep the Keylab and softsynths in the rig but really want to avoid having three boards.

[Analogaddict]

I"ve been using a MODX7 and I"m very happy with it. It may not be the perfect board but it does so much and it does it so well. The midi implementation is not very good and you need a 2nd board with master functionality to access channels 8-16. I just got an YC61 and it can send on four separate midi channels, making it a great companion. I haven"t started programming the rig but on their own they sound great. There are a few quirks in the YC61 controller functions (and Leslie), the biggest one for me being that it"s not possible to 'zone" the internal sounds, they can just be split, making it impossible to use internal sounds and midi zones mapped over the keyboard. This could surely be fixed in an update.

[stoken6]

We've all got our preferences - here's mine:

1. Your synth requirements should be covered by the Wave upstairs

2. Downstairs, a Yamaha YC73 gives you hammer action, AP/EP, organ (play from your Wave, good enough?) - 29lb shlep, 73-note fits on compact stages, etc.

 

Alternative proposition: Nord Stage 3 Compact over your choice of controller (the usual suspects: Casio, Kawai...). That's basically my rig (except I have a Stage 2), and gets you better organ than the Yamaha YC. Put a MODX8 underneath for huge firepower.

 

Do you need your piano-centric board to be hammer-action? If not, there are many more opportunities for weight saving (as mentioned above, MODX7, PC4-7, Kronos LS...)

 

Cheers, Mike.

[erik_nie]

After many iterations I also went for the Nord setup: Nord Stage 3 compact and Nord Wave 2

Both are very light and flexible.

 

I've cross-midi-ed them. So I can use the setlist option from the stage to quickly select patches on both synths and use the Organ from the Stage from the Wave (nice to have the leslie and drawbars below for quick access).

 

I've come from Kurzweil where everything is possible, but the Nords are so user friendly and have exactly the right amount of flexibility.

For cover work they are amazing. Most sounds are in the sample-lib and some signature sounds can be download from forums or easily created yourself.

I had many sample sets from earlier synths and sometimes sample from a VST.

More than good enough for love band stuff.

 

Low in weight and high in quality.

[Bobadohshe]

My longtime Top 40 rig is Montage 7 on top CP4 on the bottom. I do hundreds of gigs with this combo a year (not last year duh) and it's perfect for my needs. The piano capabilities on the bottom come in handy when we have an occasional extra cocktail jazz set or if I really want to play the piano parts of certain songs legitimately. Weakest part is the organ but I survive.

[Delaware Dave]

The weaker part of the Kurzweil boards (average sounds) are the KB3 organ. And really, it is the leslie more than anything (add a Vent and you're there). The Kurz's are fabulous sounding keyboards otherwise and excellent master controllers. It meets your decent organ requirement. I would give either the Forte or the PC4 a serious look as one of your keyboards. Here's the PC4 organ with its own leslie ...

 

https://www.facebook.com/cal.hamlin/videos/10216555022662998/ go to the 6:30 mark

[ElmerJFudd]

Kawai ES-110 on the bottom. Kurzweil PC4-7 on top. MIDI them up.

[stoken6]

Delaware Dave +1. PC4-7 over your choice of controller, add Vent to taste. Because the PC4 can act as a MIDI USB Host (admittedly receive only), it opens up the choice of downstairs controller to USB-only boards, including the greatest missed opportunity on the planet: Yamaha P121. 73 keys, 22lb, action immeasurably better than TP100 (although not perfect, and of course subjective), USB-MIDI, no 5-pin MIDI.

 

Great rig if you want the "set up everything at home" mentality - same as Kronos, Yamaha MODX, etc. It's not as immediate as Nord, Yamaha YC, Hammond SK Pro etc.

 

EDIT: Elmer just beat me to it. ES110 is my favourite of the lightweight hammer actions, but 88-key only.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[ajstan]

My two cents would be:

 

a) Consider the need for velocity switching for sampled instruments (especially horns and strings) and if the Nord Wave 2 provides sufficient workarounds or if you need the other board to handle those types of sounds.

 

b) Do you have any concerns about the ability to be able to play a gig with one board should the other go out either immediately before or during a show? In that case, you may want to have some sounds in both boards that can be used to cover what you need. Of course, the more specialized your individual programs become per song, the more overlap in functionality between boards will be required.

[marczellm]

The weaker part of the Kurzweil boards (average sounds) are the KB3 organ. And really, it is the leslie more than anything (add a Vent and you're there).

And even the internal sounds you can improve by tweaking the effects or downloading other people"s effect chains.

[AnotherScott]

Second attempt: Crumar Seven plus MODX7: worked extremely well and don't need to bring a separate stand. Downside: Crumar is too low with its legs to be able to stand and play your top board.

What else was not sufficiently satisfying that you didn't consider just using a different stand? Or, like me, are you just perennially in a search for "something better"? ;-)

 

Fourth iteration: MODX7 and YC61: YC will arrive this week and will probably revert to all on-board sounds with YC covering Piano / Organ and MODX everything else.

That's an unexpected combination, in that a lot of what's in the YC is also in the MODX (albeit obviously with a very different operational interface), and the most significant thing that isn't is the organ, which gets mixed reviews (primarily because of the Leslie sim). But sometimes a board just speaks to you. Though even then I would have expected the MODX7 to be your piano source, if only by virtue of having more keys. Though it does need some velocity tweaking... out of the box, the YC61 action is probably more piano-friendly than that of the MODX. For a multi-function organ board to pair with the MODX7, I'd look at the SK Pro... though I could see where action and piano sounds would probably favor the YC61 (as would real-time effects controls).

 

I"ve been using a MODX7 and I"m very happy with it...I just got an YC61 and it can send on four separate midi channels, making it a great companion.

And yet another player combining the MODX7 and the YC61! So count me doubly surprised.

 

Do you need your piano-centric board to be hammer-action? If not, there are many more opportunities for weight saving (as mentioned above, MODX7, PC4-7, Kronos LS...)

Kronos LS isn't so light, but yes to the others. I'm really curious to see what the action of the PC4-7 is like. One you didn't mention there is Vox Continental... not the most versatile board, probably won't cover enough territory, but does meet the lightweight piano/EP/organ criteria, and is among the best of the non-hammer actions for piano.

 

As I've mentioned elsewhere, my current choice for a super-light 2-board rig would be the Vox 73 under a MODX7. I don't think you could find a better combination for a total weight of under 35 lbs, it can cover almost anything very nicely and enjoyably. That said, with a little more weight leeway than that, it could be nice to move to a hammer action on bottom (e.g. PX5S, CP73?), while PC4-7 and SK Pro become tempting alternate top boards.

[RABid]

I think first you have to answer a more basic question. Do you want the biggest variety of keyboard action and sounds, or do you want enough redundancy that if one goes out you can cover the show on the other.

[MathOfInsects]

My NS3C + FA06 is a lean mean versatile machine.

[Cabo]

I tried to replace my Kronos, due to similar concerns about the weight and thinking that there must be something better out there since it's been around for so long. I came to the conclusion that there really isn't anything substantially better or less weight that does what it does (imo). Plus I know how the Kronos works and don't want to go through a learning curve unless it's a substantial upgrade.

 

So what would a major upgrade be (for me)? Less weight, and a high quality clone-wheel organ inside

 

I can't understand why one of the big manufacturers can't put a great clone wheel organ inside their flagship workstations. A Roland Fantom, Yamaha Montage, or Korg Kronos with an organ like the Hammond SK Pro, Mojo, etc.

 

I would buy it in an instant, and pay a premium price.

[AnotherScott]

I can't understand why one of the big manufacturers can't put a great clone wheel organ inside their flagship workstations. A Roland Fantom, Yamaha Montage, or Korg Kronos with an organ like the Hammond SK Pro, Mojo, etc.

 

I would buy it in an instant, and pay a premium price.

Well, at least all the flagship workstations have good MIDI capabilities, so you can solve this with VB3m or B-3X on a smartphone/iPad.