OT: I just got the vaccine. Ask me anything.

[Mills Dude]

I'm debating the gym. My wife (without asking) bought a set of dumbbells...they are nice but I do miss being in the gym. That said, at my age I don't really do super prolonged workouts with a million different isolated exercises--I prefer compound ones and things like battle ropes, which I could do at home. Heck farmer's carries are one of the best things you can do, basically pick up heavy weights and walk...ok, I'd look weird to the neighbors but what's different about that anyway?

 

In September, I decided to use my isolated lockdown time to lose some weight and get in better shape. I had a set of dumbbells and started using those and embellished with a set of cheap resistance bands. That worked out well along with a cheap recumbent bike I bought on Amazon to get some cardio in. Then around the new year, I saw a Total Gym XL7 on sale at BJ's for under $300 and decided to take the plunge.

 

Yeah, it's that goofy thing from the informercials with Chuck Norris. But I've been using this thing now for 3 months and it's the real deal. You can do isolated as well as compound movements targeting all muscle groups. The thing came with a ton of attachments for pullups, chinups, pressups, dips and an ab-cruncher. The basic operation of the machine is cable system attached to a glide board where you pull your own body weight -- so instead of a weight stack, it's you. I can't say enough good things about it. That model is a scaled down version of the top of the line models but it's plenty good enough for me and far cheaper.

 

I'm down 50lbs from September, mostly from diet, but the Total Gym has really made a difference in building muscle. I'm on it for about 45 minutes, 5 days a week.

You can also get a circuit going with little rest between exercises to get the heart rate up. It's been a great value for me but like anything it only works if you work it.

[OB Dave]

Quick update: Pfizer #2 on Weds, was pretty tired & achey Thursday, today (Friday) I feel like a million bucks and just got back from a bike ride. Seems fairly consistent with what others report. I would suggest planning on some downtime the day after jab #2.

[MathOfInsects]

I'm debating the gym. My wife (without asking) bought a set of dumbbells...they are nice but I do miss being in the gym. That said, at my age I don't really do super prolonged workouts with a million different isolated exercises--I prefer compound ones and things like battle ropes, which I could do at home. Heck farmer's carries are one of the best things you can do, basically pick up heavy weights and walk...ok, I'd look weird to the neighbors but what's different about that anyway?

 

I have to say, going back confirmed all my worst fears about the folks who have been going all along. 80% of masks are in the below-the-nose setting, people pull their masks off completely to exert energy, which is the exact time it would need to be on, and the trainers are wearing only those useless face-shields while working with folks. To be fair, the trainers may be vaccinated and therefore actually demonstrating some courtesy. But plenty of others are high schoolers and non-vaccinated others who just can't be bothered to pull the mask up that extra inch that would keep them from spreading/catching COVID and also from looking comically dumb.

 

They do have enough hand-towels and spray bottles set up for each person to have their own little rig they walk around with to wipe down machines. But transmission from surfaces is so low that the CDC out-and-out called the wipe-down routine "theater" last week. The real risk is the expressed air from people's smug maskless faces, which appears to be the national sport in there.

 

If I weren't full bars, I wouldn't go near the place. As it is, I still stay away from others and remain masked the entire time.

 

Having said that...now that I'm a few days in to going, it does feel good to be back again. Covid-19 describes the exact amount of extra padding I added this last year. Looking forward to flattening the curve.

[Docbop]

 

I never liked gyms (or being around people). Working out at home is cheap and easy, with a little resourcefulness you can cover all the muscle groups with little to no equipment or investment.

 

 

I've been working out in gyms since the 80's and pro trainers and gym is only place for real gear for serious workout for aerobic and weights. If serious about working out you have to change your routine about every month otherwise your body gets adjusts to doing that movement and benefit start going away. Look at construction workers and other people doing heavy lifting jobs are they built like bodybuilders, no because their body adjusts to the task and considers it normal activity. Working out at home is okay it is better than nothing, but not going to have to benefits having access to gear that you can constantly challenge yourself with different weights, angles, and movements. Comparing working out at home and working out in a gym is an apples and oranges comparison. Because of covid I've had to exercise at home for the past year, it doesn't have the benefits you get with a gym fully of gear.

[jazzpiano88]

I've actually been signed up to take my Vaxine Nation advice from Ed Bassmaster since he's been using the Philly Cowboy PPE complete with wrangler doo dads on his mask.

 

He has the low-down hear:

[video:youtube]

[Stokely]

I don't think masks are going to help all that much in a situation where you are huffing and puffing anyway. Maybe with spraying big droplets. Also, the idea of wearing a mask while exercising sounds awful, so that's another reason I won't be joining again I don't think.

[Joe Muscara]

I'm still the only person I know that can say that I don't know if I've been vaccinated or not. Since I reacted to the two shots so far...

 

FWIW, I know from scientist friends who are not only closely in orbit with the process, but also had kids in trials, that initial considerations of fitting the placebo with an irritating agent of some kind (or even other vaccines) were deemed unethical. So if you had a reaction, chances are VERY high that you got the actual vaccine.

Oh, I know, but some of us crazies have a reaction to the placebo because our brains work that way. (The IC for the study clearly says, "the placebo will be sodium chloride, as known as sterile saltwater." Also, my wife works in the field of clinical trials of cancer drugs and got a master's degree in it so I'm pretty aware of what they can and can't do. The first thing they studied was Henrietta Lacksâ¦)

 

I know my odds are good that I got the J&J vaccine, but it's not 100% sure until they tell me it is.

[RABid]

First shot - A taste in my mouth and a bit run down.

Second shot - About like taking an antibiotic. Had to go to the bathroom a bit more than usual but no other affects.

 

Went into a grocery store and talked to a friend from high school. She said only one person in the entire store staff took the shot. The rest are either afraid or don't see the importance. Went back to the drug store where my sister was getting her second shot and the manager told us that he basically begged store employees at the grocery to come get their shots. He had open slots and available vaccine. He could not talk them into it. ... I don't understand people.

 

 

Musicians who teach and hang at the local music store they're not doing masks, social distance, and parroting conspiracy theories or political reasons. I cracked up a week ago one by one they were all coming in to talk about how they got their shot(s). The one holdout was getting madder and madder as each one would say they got the shot. He was fuming when one of his staunch allies on being anti-vaccine came in and said "just got the shot". Of course he blamed his wife for making him get the shot. I'm normally the conspiracy nut, but in a pandemic I took the attitude of better safe than sorry and show of respect to my fellow humans around me.

 

I have a 70 year old cousin that is big into conspiracy theories. 100 experts can say one thing, and one acquaintance can say the opposite and she will go with that. I finally came to the realization that she will never change. It is not an issue of intelligence. She is a retired CFO. It is gullibility and the desire to believe conspiracy theories. Our cousins group had been getting together once a month for lunch but suspended during Covid. Now we have decided that once everyone gets their shots we are getting together. It will be interesting to see if she gives in and gets the shot so she can attend, choses not to attend, or shows up without the shot.

[MathOfInsects]

I don't think masks are going to help all that much in a situation where you are huffing and puffing anyway. Maybe with spraying big droplets. Also, the idea of wearing a mask while exercising sounds awful, so that's another reason I won't be joining again I don't think.

 

I actually think the efficacy of masks is almost entirely because of the size of COVID spray and droplets vs the size of the weave of the mask--meaning, in theory the volume or force shouldn't change much. I'd be curious to know if that's true.

 

However, it DOES suck--bad--breathing a mask in and out of your mouth while doing cardio. Since I am known to myself to be vaxxed, I do sometimes pull it away from my mouth and sneak some breaths out the bottom of the mask. But no one else knows I'm vaccinated, so it's still a douchebag move on my part. The gym owner said it's fine to wear faceshields instead of masks (without regard to vaxxing), but just because he is wrong in a direction that would benefit me, doesn't make me feel right about being yet another dumb-dumb in a face-shield while we're still mid-pandemic. Another month maybe.

 

I honestly wouldn't be against some kind of wristband supplied by the facility that certifies your vax status. Why not just put it out there so everyone can proceed accordingly.

[RABid]

...

I honestly wouldn't be against some kind of wristband supplied by the facility that certifies your vax status. Why not just put it out there so everyone can proceed accordingly.

 

I've thought about this. It would be interesting to analyze reactions to such a proposal and see if it is people that don't get the vaccine that would oppose it. But I have talked to friends about continuing to wear the mask after being vaccinated just because others don't know if you are covered or not. I would rather wear it than make other uncomfortable. Something else I have thought about, should business eventually have to post information on the percentage of workers that have been vaccinated? I started thinking about this after talking to a friend that works in a grocery. It is a large grocery and she told me that only one employee was getting the vaccination. Everyone else was avoiding it. That is all employees over all shifts in all departments. Personally I would like to know this so I can avoid such places.

[Adan]

Vaccine "passports" and such are going to be incredibly complicated because the virus will continue to mutate. Different people will have had different vaccines with varying effectiveness against different virus variants. It's not analogous to small pox or measles. If you try to limit access to certain things, there will be litigation, so scientific uncertainty will be compounded with legal uncertainty. This is the world we'll be living in for the foreseeable future, so get used to it and try to have fun.

 

Unfortunately, looked at from a 10,000 foot level, this means a world that works somewhat better for surfers and mountain bikers, somewhat less good for musicians.

[Throbert]

got my second phyzer mo problems, later

[Joe Muscara]

Some of "that crowd" is starting to spin up about the idea of vaccine passports and they're not completely wrong. Like it or not, your medical decisions are your choice and in some respects, no one else's business. Don't get me wrong, I realize that this is like smoking in that if a person doesn't get vaccinated (or smokes), it does or can affect those around them. However, I agree with Dr. Hotez that if we want those hesitant to get vaccinated, we're not going to win them over by browbeating them. There have been successes reducing hesitancy in minority communities using advocates like pastors so other groups need to be reached similarly.

 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/health/article/Dr-Peter-Hotez-return-to-normal-covid-summer-gray-16087488.php

 

I think the idea of businesses posting how many employees have been vaccinated could also be tricky.

[MathOfInsects]

Well, just to be clear, I'm not advocating for a public policy that formalizes the "vaccine passport" concept in some statutory way (though I'm not actually against that. Try to enroll your kids in public school without first providing vaccine records. That didn't seem like such a crazy idea until this virus became politicized a year ago).

 

But just as "people older than 21" get one wristband and "people under 21" get another, or "people who paid for FastPass" get one and "general admission losers" get another, I think there is some merit to PRIVATE businesses asking to make clear for themselves who is fully vaccinated and who is not. It doesn't seem any different, from a civil libertarian point of view, than taking people's temperature before allowing them to enter your business. It would also help interpersonally, particularly in a business like a gym, in allowing your customers to feel better about spending longer amounts of time with people of varying commitment to the various precautions.

 

It would not have to carry the implication of a "guarantee of safety," if that is the concern around the litigation aspect. To my mind it's exactly the same as my gym posting signs that say, "No cell phones in the gym." That's their policy, nothing more or less. You can break it if you want, but they can also ask you to leave or move to a separate area if you do.

 

I'm slightly less compelled by the "no guarantee" argument in general, though, because 1) Boosters are a routine aspect of vaccination, for this exact reason, and 2) Nothing is statistically foolproof. The thing we have been doing lately--saying that because a certain small piece of a thing can't be known, therefore no one can know anything about anything--seems self-defeating. If we didn't think vaccines were effective, we wouldn't be putting them into the arms of the entire population as an all-hands-on-deck means of stopping a massively deadly global pandemic. We know they are effective, to an awe-inspiring extent. We just don't know if they will need a tiny bit of tweaking or boosting along the way, as they often do, to keep the effectiveness up in its stratospheric range. That's not a flaw, it's literally the exact argument that vaccines work.

 

Though I do understand that the "lawsuit" aspect was framed as a possible roadblock to implementation. I just don't think fear of litigation should be the only consideration.

[OB Dave]

I think the more fundamental issue with the wristbands is people will just order fake ones off Amazon like they do "service animal" doggie vests. Those little CDC cards are trivially easy to forge and suspect people will be forging those as well. I would be a lot less concerned about this if it were was only their own life they were putting at risk.

 

I'm not opposed to requiring vaccinations to embark on certain activities (if you work in construction your employer probably requires you to be current on tetanus shots), I just don't know how it would be administered.

[MathOfInsects]

I guess I don't see that as an issue...? Just because people can fake Driver's Licenses, doesn't mean Driver's Licenses no longer have any meaning at all. The proportion of people who would bother to order a particular wristband to match a particular institution's particular chosen option, in order to...____? seems tiny compared to the people who either just would or wouldn't present their vaccination card in the first place. No one is forcing them to prove they are vaccinated (though I'd be favor of that); just letting others know that perhaps the potential public cost of wearing their mask below their nose, like a dweeb, is lower than it might first appear. Not foolproof, not magic; just statistically much less of a concern. Then you, random gym-goer, can make your own decision about whether you want to use the next machine over or not, fully informed.

 

I don't see a difference between the temperature-taking and this. Having a fever doesn't mean you have COVID; having COVID doesn't even mean you'll pass it along; NOT having a fever doesn't mean you don't have COVID and won't pass it along. It's just one measure among many meant to serve the larger good, in the aggregate.

[Stokely]

Some of "that crowd" is starting to spin up about the idea of vaccine passports and they're not completely wrong. Like it or not, your medical decisions are your choice and in some respects, no one else's business. Don't get me wrong, I realize that this is like smoking in that if a person doesn't get vaccinated (or smokes), it does or can affect those around them. However, I agree with Dr. Hotez that if we want those hesitant to get vaccinated, we're not going to win them over by browbeating them. There have been successes reducing hesitancy in minority communities using advocates like pastors so other groups need to be reached similarly.

 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/health/article/Dr-Peter-Hotez-return-to-normal-covid-summer-gray-16087488.php

 

I think the idea of businesses posting how many employees have been vaccinated could also be tricky.

 

 

Pretty hard to win over people with facts or reason that reached contrary positions by ignoring facts and science. Nobody I know that doesn't want the vaccine is hesitant. They all are quite convinced of how bad the vaccines are (at best, that they are unnecessary) and they reached these beliefs by avoiding facts and reason and science. Information about the vaccines is very, very readily available. Unfortunately, misinformation about them is just as available.

[EscapeRocks]

this entire thread with everyone virtue signalling. :D

[Mighty Motif Max]

Vaccine passports make fair sense for international travel, as various countries have required travelers to have certain vaccines before going to their country (i.e. Russia had that for a while, some of Africa, etc). That's been that way for many decades in some cases. The concern is generally with how it will be implemented. It wouldn't be good if it applied to travel within the US. International travel is a different story, as any sovereign nation can require whatever they want, and again that's far from uncommon! No real problem with individual countries requiring it to travel there. Same with businesses - if individual business want to make that a requirement to enter, that is within their rights.

 

From the US travel standpoint, what option would that leave folks who are either allergic to one of the components, or have multiple blood relatives who have had serious reactions? You know what I'm saying? International, fine. Businesses, fine. Other US implementations, no.

 

This is from the perspective of someone who is pro-public health, pro-mask, pro-proven-science, generally pro-vaccine, but who also has blood relatives who have had severe reactions to the COVID shot (besides some other ones, namely Lyme's back when that was a thing and the HPV shot). I also lean moderate + conservative libertarian on most issues, but like I said I'm from a family heavily involved in the medical and public health world (pharmacists, state public health, nurses, and doctors), so I'm not one of the folks that sees, say, masks as infringing on rights or anything like that.

 

I will say what I have always said, which is that the one valid reason for a person to be hesitant about any of the COVID vaccines is simply that no matter how much red tape you remove, no matter the unlimited supply of test subjects and funding, the one thing that can never be compacted into a short period of time is long-term testing. That's part of why we're still learning about how well the COVID vaccines affect transmission versus contraction, and seeing some new reactions pop up here and there. There simply isn't any way to squeeze more time into a shorter period of time; that's just the nature of long-term testing. So because of that I do think that is one valid reason to be hesitant about these particular vaccines. These ONLY, not the rest that have been out for years unless your family has a known reaction issue to one of them. I have no time for anti-vaxxers, and I've got everything else since childhood. No concerns about those. I just understand the perspective of being hesitant due to the lack of longer-term testing. As any pharmacist might tell you, take an average drug - while there is a significant amount of red tape and delays in finding enough test subjects etc, those are still required to be tested for a number of years. Even with that, some end up getting pulled after a few years on the market. In the context of vaccines, there's the example of the Lyme's vaccine.

 

My point is that concerns about side affects or long-term impacts due to lack of long-term testing is the one valid concern that some people have. I also FULLY understand that we didn't exactly have a situation where we could wait 5-10 years for full approval. But that is one legitimate reason some have concerns. I'm concerned about that but I also have the problem with the blood relatives and reactions, so I'm kind of watching how this plays out for a while. Still hoping the AstraZeneca vaccine will get approved over here, because that only has a very, very small percentage of people with blood clots (something like 0.00002% or 37 out of 17,000,000 last time I checked), and it's a different vaccine. I'd like to get that one ideally. I just wish folks would quit assuming that everyone who has concerns about these specific vaccines is anti-science, anti-research, anti-vax, anti-laws, anti-government, or anything else like that. I'm none of those and never will be. I am pro-proven-research and pro-long-term-testing with family medical history of reactions. I also fairly-frequently talk with folks involved in ongoing COVID research and treatment development. So I don't appreciate such accusations.

 

Just my perspective. It's been interesting watching all the stats and upcoming research over the past year and a half. We don't have all the answers yet but we're getting places.

[MathOfInsects]

There has been no shortage of testing, nor any less testing compared to other vaccines. The "warp speed" referred to the implementation of the underlying technology, not the testing process that came after. I actually think that term has done more harm than good in the end, since it has left even pro-science and pro-vax people like yourself with the idea that these vaccines were somehow "rushed." All that happened is that we funded the process to a far more generous extent than we usually do, so the ramp-up period was shortened.

 

In other words, the testing period was not "warp speed," it was the same as any of the other vaccines you feel safe taking.

 

In fact, the results of that testing reveal a sort of mind-bogglingly effective approach that is all but certain to win this year's Nobel. 95% right out of the gate? Insane.

 

mRNA vaccines are not a new idea; funding that idea to the extent that it could be deployed for a currently raging pandemic definitely is. In my fantasy world, this will be all the proof people need that we need to fund the sciences far more generously, and that there is a one-to-one relationship between the money we put in and the results we get.

 

My realist self knows that no such thing will happen. But I like the hope...

[stoken6]

Still hoping the AstraZeneca vaccine will get approved over here, because that only has a very, very small percentage of people with blood clots (something like 0.00002% or 37 out of 17,000,000 last time I checked), and it's a different vaccine.

I had the AZ vaccine (first jab) just over two weeks ago. It's based on a chimpanzee flu virus, and I had a slight case of chimpanzee flu that night - a bit of shivering/shaking, nothing that two paracetamol couldn't take care of. Fine since then.

 

Good health to everyone on the forum - and beyond.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[MathOfInsects]

this entire thread with everyone virtue signalling. :D

I've been curious about this weird phrase ever since it emerged. Are there folks who really think the only way someone can have a thought beyond themselves is for show? Or is it just used when people can't argue with the content of something, so instead they attack the person saying it?

 

Neither option reflects well on the person who uses this phrase, and I think it diminishes folks when they use it. It's more useful to remember that people can disagree without it being because either one is a sociopath.

[Mighty Motif Max]

There has been no shortage of testing, nor any less testing compared to other vaccines. The "warp speed" referred to the implementation of the underlying technology, not the testing process that came after. I actually think that term has done more harm than good in the end, since it has left even pro-science and pro-vax people like yourself with the idea that these vaccines were somehow "rushed." All that happened is that we funded the process to a far more generous extent than we usually do, so the ramp-up period was shortened.

 

In other words, the testing period was not "warp speed," it was the same as any of the other vaccines you feel safe taking.

 

In fact, the results of that testing reveal a sort of mind-bogglingly effective approach that is all but certain to win this year's Nobel. 95% right out of the gate? Insane.

 

mRNA vaccines are not a new idea; funding that idea to the extent that it could be deployed for a currently raging pandemic definitely is. In my fantasy world, this will be all the proof people need that we need to fund the sciences far more generously, and that there is a one-to-one relationship between the money we put in and the results we get.

 

My realist self knows that no such thing will happen. But I like the hope...

 

 

MRNA could be a revolution, to use a slightly overused term lately. I really hope it is a massive success because there are a lot of areas of medicine that could benefit from it!

 

The name "warp speed' has no bearing on the long-term testing piece, so that's irrelevant. Although I'm not fond of that name choice for the same reason you mentioned. Still, take a look at the usual approval process for a completely brand-new vaccine. Things like the influenza vaccine are more or less revisions of previously very-successful vaccines, so they naturally don't have as much to deal with. I'm aware that BioNTech(I think?) was working on an MRNA vaccine for a different type of coronavirus for a while before this, and that MRNA has been studied for a while, so it wasn't exactly starting from ground zero.

 

Just remember that emergency use authorization is different than full regulatory approval, and part of that is the decision of whether the benefits outweigh the known risks. Not all known risks can be known from short-term testing, unfortunately. But that's again why you'll frequently hear that we're still learning about how the Moderna, Pfizer, and now the J&J vaccines affect different aspects of disease control. THIS is essentially the longer-term testing period, just on a massive scale. It's just the reality, and its up to the individual how comfortable they feel knowing that. Like I said I'm looking forward to the AZ's approval over here because in a way that one has had a longer-testing period before being available here, albeit at the expense of the EU being the first testing ground.

[o0Ampy0o]

There have been a few places to avoid maintaining my above average good health. Second to being exposed to illness entering a medical facility is spending time in a gym. Why would anyone choose to spend time breathing huffed and puffed gym ape breath? I understand there is all that wonderful equipment and the central focus of the task at hand and objective but those can all be addressed in a healthier environment. Ironically a home set up is not always more convenient. I suspect a post-Covid world will improve things at the gym so long as people do not get lazy, which realistically they probably will. Lazy at the gym irony so human :-)

 

So far shot #1 Moderna, nothing more than typical charlie horse on the puncture spot. #2 coming in a couple more weeks.

[MathOfInsects]

I'm aware that BioNTech(I think?) was working on an MRNA vaccine for a different type of coronavirus for a while before this, and that MRNA has been studied for a while, so it wasn't exactly starting from ground zero.

 

Yup. 10 years, based on a concept that has been studied for 50.

 

The only difference now is all the money we threw at it. Regardless of the underlying reason for the push for a (November) vaccine, the result has been incredible.

 

I've heard that "we are all part of the Phase 4" thing before, but I hope it's OK to say that it's not really the right analogy. We're not test subjects; there's no control group, we're only monitored if we choose to do our vaccine check-in, there's no quality control checking the accuracy of those answers. All that happens is literally the same thing our software does when it asks to send bug reports to the manufacturers. It's helpful, but it's not the same thing as "beta testing," which is what the "we are all part of Phase 4" implies. The real testing was done leading up to the EUA.

 

The point is, it is silly to be more afraid of some theoretical unknown that could arise unexpectedly at some point in the future, than the absolutely known thing that is killing millions of people right now. If the house is on fire, it's not the time to worry about whether the fire truck might be low on washer fluid. Put the fire out and then take stock.

[o0Ampy0o]

The point is, it is silly to be more afraid of some theoretical unknown that could arise unexpectedly at some point in the future, than the absolutely known thing that is killing millions of people right now. If the house is on fire, it's not the time to worry about whether the fire truck might be low on washer fluid. Put the fire out and then take stock.

This mentality has been discouraging to say the least. We would still be debating/arguing ridiculous points without those with the position exercising their power to mandate action and inaction. Covid-19 exacerbated a greater pandemic: Dumb-101. Unfortunately, the world is not working together on a vaccine against that.

[EscapeRocks]

As far as passports: There does not need to be a separate thing simply for covid 19 Many countries already require a serious of inoculations when traveling abroad. Just let those countries (including USA) add this to the list.

 

Wristbands? Fuck that.

[Joe Muscara]

Some of "that crowd" is starting to spin up about the idea of vaccine passports and they're not completely wrong. Like it or not, your medical decisions are your choice and in some respects, no one else's business. Don't get me wrong, I realize that this is like smoking in that if a person doesn't get vaccinated (or smokes), it does or can affect those around them. However, I agree with Dr. Hotez that if we want those hesitant to get vaccinated, we're not going to win them over by browbeating them. There have been successes reducing hesitancy in minority communities using advocates like pastors so other groups need to be reached similarly.

 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/health/article/Dr-Peter-Hotez-return-to-normal-covid-summer-gray-16087488.php

 

I think the idea of businesses posting how many employees have been vaccinated could also be tricky.

 

 

Pretty hard to win over people with facts or reason that reached contrary positions by ignoring facts and science. Nobody I know that doesn't want the vaccine is hesitant. They all are quite convinced of how bad the vaccines are (at best, that they are unnecessary) and they reached these beliefs by avoiding facts and reason and science. Information about the vaccines is very, very readily available. Unfortunately, misinformation about them is just as available.

I believe "vaccine hesitancy" is a general term for the spectrum of people that aren't taking it. I agree there are some we may never reach, but there are others who have their doubts. As we chip away at those "maybes" and get them to "yes," we're getting more people vaccinated and might start to convince the "probably nots" next, etc. I'm sure this is what happened with the minority populations who were against it.

 

IOW, for the benefit of all, we have to try to change their minds.

[o0Ampy0o]

In this "Information Age" a significant number of people seem to prefer looking to others to read, evaluate then tell them what their opinion is. They want someone to tell them what they should think about it. I hear people parroting someone else's words. When probed for more they offer cliches and do not exhibit any indications that they do their own research and have come to their own conclusions. You do not have to take it to scientific levels but even "scientific" is relative in the sense that the information available to practically everyone enables us to be more intelligent and to evaluate and comprehend beyond that of many scientists during previous times. The majority of people rely on the opinion of someone who claims to have researched the topic and presents that perspective without bias. They prefer social media and social media skewed news reports for their own point of view. There is widespread cynicism easily hijacked by anyone with a platform looking to sway in a particular direction. Unfortunately cynicism, destruction and general negativity go hand in hand and reduce chances for anything that might alter this nature.

[El Lobo]

"the very act of accusing someone of virtue signalling is an act of virtue signalling in itself, and that its overuse as an ad hominem attack during political debate has rendered it a meaningless political buzzword." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling