Korg CX-3 and the church PA system

[MrVegas]

I'm still playing my CX-3 (a little old but the newer version with Midi) through my Motion Sound KBR-3D during our Sunday morning church gigs. We play contemporary rock/ballad type tunes and honestly it gets pretty loud most of the time. There's also drums, bass, piano and electric guitar and vocals.

 

My question has to do with "cutting through the mix" when we get loud.

 

The patches I use are fairly trebly and I put a little bit of onboard distortion on them. I'm mostly playing chord progressions (not that many lead riffs). When I play lower to mid-range notes you can barely hear them and the notes in the upper register can be heard but they seem a little thin to me. Or weak. I use both slow and fast speed on the Leslie.

 

In another recent thread I saw somebody asking for a comparison of XK-1 to SK-1 and there was a discussion of tone. I'm wondering if my tone on these gigs would be improved if I moved from the CX-3 to something like the SK-1 or XK-5 (probably too expensive). Suggestions?

 

 

 

P.S. I just revisited a CX-3 thread I posted a couple months ago and somebody suggested I use the CX-3 as a controller for an iPad with B3X on it. I'm going to try that this week and see how it sounds.

[b3maniac]

If your rig sounds good through your Motion Sound, I would suggest you work with the sound person to improve the organ sound in the PA.

[cphollis]

I get the same thing w/organ when playing live electric vs. playing acoustically or solo. The organ midrange seems to get swallowed up in the chaos, the lead lines can be too bright. The only thing that works for me is to stay on it: drawbars, eq, expression, volume. Move up, move back, etc. Using an expression pedal (if you're not) will certainly help.

[KuruPrionz]

The organ midrange seems to get swallowed up in the chaos, the lead lines can be too bright. The only thing that works for me is to stay on it: drawbars, eq, expression, volume. Move up, move back, etc. Using an expression pedal (if you're not) will certainly help.

 

Bingo!!! It's probably a lack of well considered midrange that keeps your keys from cutting through.

 

Same thing happens with guitars. I've got my mids a bit more scooped for backing up the singer, the vocal IS the solo. When I solo, my tone is much more mid-forward and easily heard.

 

As I mention in the "Sound Levels Issues" thread, it is really common that many live band situations suffer from all members overplaying instead of coming up with concise arrangements that leave room for all instruments to be heard.

Simpler parts played by EVERYBODY can often clean up the clutter that clouds the mix. Make every note count, we tend to play more by ourselves than in a team. Hold back, leave space. If everybody does that and minds the groove, your band will sound umpty bajillion better.

[MrVegas]

The only thing that works for me is to stay on it: drawbars, eq, expression, volume. Move up, move back, etc. Using an expression pedal (if you're not) will certainly help.

 

I do use an expression pedal. Can you be a little more specific in what you mean by "staying on it with drawbars, eq, expression and volume?"

[cphollis]

The only thing that works for me is to stay on it: drawbars, eq, expression, volume. Move up, move back, etc. Using an expression pedal (if you're not) will certainly help.

 

I do use an expression pedal. Can you be a little more specific in what you mean by "staying on it with drawbars, eq, expression and volume?"

 

Sorry. I'm referring to listening closely how the organ sits in the mix, and adjusting in real time as needed. Drawbars in and out, as well as actively dialing down/up of highs, mids or lows as needed. Someone told me a long time ago that playing a Hammond in a band is much like playing a synthesizer -- you're always adjusting something!

[drawback]

Something else I'd try is adjusting the EQ settings on your CX as well as the Motion-Sound. The high drawbars are fairly thin on the CX3 (I've had a CX3 as well as the engine in my Kronos) so you might want to fatten up the high end with some mid-range EQ (Editable Parameters on the CX3) and/or on the panel of your KBR-3D. Maintaining good midrange is one of the most vital things you can do to improve your on-stage sound and it's something that you'll be able to do in real time.

[BluesB3]

Did I miss something?

 

Is the KBR3D XLR'd out to the PA? If so the kobitone rotary mics aren't the best thing in the world. I have installed 2 in my 145 for emergency backup. I think the most expensive Kobitone is less than 5 bucks. Is the KBR mic'ed with 57's or something? Maybe that would help the sound. Also it might not hurt to elevate that squatty cabinet to get it up off the floor (and carpet?) if you're not mic'ing it at all.

 

Cphollis has made a good point too. Think of your drawbars not like preset sound patches but more like an EQ you can shape to the room acoustics or the other sonic elements of your band. One thing I hate about my Nord with the LED "drawbars" (not!) is they aren't tactile enough and I get lazy about shaping them when playing. Not a problem on a real Hammond.

[MrVegas]

Did I miss something?

 

Is the KBR3D XLR'd out to the PA? If so the kobitone rotary mics aren't the best thing in the world. I have installed 2 in my 145 for emergency backup. I think the most expensive Kobitone is less than 5 bucks. Is the KBR mic'ed with 57's or something? Maybe that would help the sound. Also it might not hurt to elevate that squatty cabinet to get it up off the floor (and carpet?) if you're not mic'ing it at all.

 

 

Yes, the amp is XLR'd out to the PA. Our so-called pro sound team is not up to the task of using good mics on stage amps (long story). I do have my KBR3D mounted on a stand (off the floor) that angles the sound up towards me as a monitor.

[Legatoboy]

I gigged the exact same rig for years.... .adjust the Bass, Mid. Treble on the Patch Level.... that can be adjusted and saved on each patch... also, those mics in the KBR tended to eliminate the midrange and make the overall sound a bit anemic....I know it's very nice and easy to get the output of the KBR to the FOH sound board like that, and I did do that most of the time.... but try mic's in the front of the amp ( in the middle of the 10's) and one in the rotor like a real Leslie.... this way the soundman might have more flexibility in crafting the sound.... also there is a setting in each patch to run the patch Hot or a bit Cooler.... I can't remember the title of the parameter off hand now.... that also effects it's sound signature quite a bit also, I think it's in the Leslie Parameters in each patch ....open the manual and look at all the patch parms to find that, ...experiment with all that and save to a new patch until to you get it the sound the way you like ....make sure you have the leslie Simm totally off also.... not on Leslie 'Stop', you probably know that though.

[organize]

Are you using preamp mode in the rotary section of the CX3?(pg. 19 of CX3 manual)

this bypasses the rotary effect and and has more mids in the last octave

this should help when using an external rotary speaker

also play with amp type 1 and the 2 this will affect the mid-frequency

range of the amp selected by the 'Amp Type' parameter.

also adjusting the mid frequency eq in preset mode will also help

[MrVegas]

Wow, this is really eye opening .... I'm embarrassed to admit that I have never edited any of the parameters in the CX-3. Thank you for these tips!

 

I will definitely do what you're suggesting about the pre-amp and the amp type settings in the organ. REALLY APPRECIATE IT

[MrVegas]

Something else I'd try is adjusting the EQ settings on your CX as well as the Motion-Sound. The high drawbars are fairly thin on the CX3 (I've had a CX3 as well as the engine in my Kronos) so you might want to fatten up the high end with some mid-range EQ (Editable Parameters on the CX3) and/or on the panel of your KBR-3D. Maintaining good midrange is one of the most vital things you can do to improve your on-stage sound and it's something that you'll be able to do in real time.

 

I am reading the owners manual and trying to get ready for church tomorrow morning. Funny thing is several of you guys are saying that the bass, mid-range and treble EQ settings can be edited for each patch in the Korg, but I can't find that in the manual. Are you sure about this?

[drawback]

Something else I'd try is adjusting the EQ settings on your CX as well as the Motion-Sound. The high drawbars are fairly thin on the CX3 (I've had a CX3 as well as the engine in my Kronos) so you might want to fatten up the high end with some mid-range EQ (Editable Parameters on the CX3) and/or on the panel of your KBR-3D. Maintaining good midrange is one of the most vital things you can do to improve your on-stage sound and it's something that you'll be able to do in real time.

 

I am reading the owners manual and trying to get ready for church tomorrow morning. Funny thing is several of you guys are saying that the bass, mid-range and treble EQ settings can be edited for each patch in the Korg, but I can't find that in the manual. Are you sure about this?

 

I just quickly searched for the CX3 manual online, found this all on Page 23 under the heading Group 4. Here you can set everything concerning the Amp section. I didn't specify that you could save these for each setting, but I think you need to do some work on the EQ settings in general, to sound best with your stage amplifier. Can you do this at sound check?