Lightweight stage piano - RD88, MODX8 or SP6/PC4

[dickiefunk]

Thanks for all the recommendations and user experiences so far! It's really helpful for narrowing down my options. I forgot to mention I would like to have at least a couple of sliders/knobs to be able to blend piano with a pad.

 

MODX

 

It would appear that the MODX has the edge over the Roland in a lot of areas regarding sound and features. It has a built in audio interface and the layout of the controls looks very intuitive and hands on for real time control. My main niggle with the MODX is it is noticeably bulkier than the Roland RD. The Casio Privia PX-S3000 and Roland RD88 have a much more appealing cabinet size. Some of the gigs I do are jazz duo/trio at high end corporate events and I could do with the piano being more discrete and the MODX is pretty bulky and has flashing LED's and big touchscreen. Is there a way I could turn off the flashing knob and dim the LEDs etc? Also. the MODX doesn't have built in speakers which would be handy for small rehearsals with singers etc.

 

RD88

 

I am a little disappointed by the online demos of this keyboard. I prefer some of Rolands older stereo sampled sounds to the new Supernatural engine. I find it similar to comparing PianoTeq to a really good piano sample. The sample libraries nearly always sound much more natural and realistic! The piano sound on the RD88 sounds artificial in some of the online demos but pretty decent in some others!? I haven't found any good demos of all the other sounds so can't really comment on those though. I do like the fact that this is more compact, has a built in audio interface and the workflow will be a little more familiar to me as I am used to Roland RD's. Regarding the acoustic piano sound, I could use the Ravenscroft app and if the other voices are an improvement over those in my old RD300 then this may be enough for my requirements. Also, I have the YC61 and naturally this is in a different league regarding organ sounds. Also, all the other sounds are excellent and a big step up from my RD300gx! For jazz gigs I could use just the RD88 with the Ravenscroft on my iPhone and for the band gigs, I would add the YC61 which has great organ, Rhodes, Wurlitzer, Clav, Brass, Strings, Synths and pads. Also the YC's built in fx engines sound wonderful! In addition to this, the RD88 has a LOT more sounds than the YC so some of those extra voices may come in handy on function gigs.

 

Kurzweil PC4

 

Some of the sounds on this are very nice but I'm not sure they are necessarily any better than the MODX? Also, the Kurzweil is the most expensive of the bunch at around £500 more than the MODX. The PC4 doesn't have a built in audio interface It is also quite bulky again and ideally I would prefer something a little more compact.

 

Casio PX-S3000

 

I'm not familiar with this model. I've had a quick listen to some demos and the acoustic piano sounds ok but the other voices don't sound great. Also, I can't see any way of easily blending layers in real time with either a slider or knob? There is only a single pitch bend wheel and no mod wheel and I've noticed some people really not liking the action of the keys. I do really like the overall appearance though, built in speakers and it is the lightest of the bunch!!

 

 

To summarize my thoughts so far the MODX ticks a lot of boxes apart from it's bulky size and appearance for quite a few of my gigs. Also, whilst the large touchscreen would be great for band gigs, I don't want this on just acoustic piano gigs.

The Roland ticks the boxes for for it's size, built in speakers and familiarity. I'm unsure about the sounds on this one as the online demos seem a little inconsistent. In some of the demos of the RD88 the acoustic and electric pianos sound too bright and harsh at the high velocities? However, perhaps the RD88 has a wider dynamic range due to the Supernatural modelling being used? I find this to be similar with PianoTeq. Also, there is a workaround this if I use the Ravenscroft app from my iPhone. I'm not sure about the Kurzweil and I don't think the Casio PX-S3000 will be suitable.

[bfields]

I think the real limitation of the PC4 brass is the lack of articulations, e.g. falls.

 

Are there any known workarounds for this? (Third-party sound sets? Ipad app?)

 

I'm thinking about a PC4 and this is the one drawback, since (in normal times...) I do sometimes play in a funk band with no horn players.

[Coker]

Yes, you can turn off the blinking superknob. I don"t know about turning down intensity of the LEDs, but you can probably find that easily in the manual. Based on your sound workarounds, I wonder if you would be better off with a good controller. As far as using the built-in speakers on a gig, I found the bass on the RD88 to be lacking at any reasonable volume. I"d think as a pianist you would sacrifice a lot of the piano sound if the bottom totally dropped out.

[ElmerJFudd]

There"s 2gb space for User Samples in the PC4.

There are lots of third party sample packs you could convert.

And there are ones made for PC4

And I believe you can use PC3 sample sets too. Or maybe they need conversion to PC4. Someone will clarify.

But yes. There are options.

 

 

[video:youtube]

[AnotherScott]

Nice brass demo except for some use of the sustain pedal that made me shudder. ;-) I prefer velocity to trigger a fall rather than a button, but Kurz programming is so flexible, I can't imagine that that couldn't be rerouted accordingly. I like the flute download on their site, too.

[AnotherScott]

If you want lightweight, there isn"t going to be anything lighter than the upcoming Korg L1 piano.

Even if he were willing to forego a hammer action, I don't think the L1 will have the range of sounds he listed needing.

 

 

My main niggle with the MODX is it is noticeably bulkier than the Roland RD. The Casio Privia PX-S3000 and Roland RD88 have a much more appealing cabinet size....Casio PX-S3000...acoustic piano sounds ok but the other voices don't sound great. Also, I can't see any way of easily blending layers in real time with either a slider or knob? There is only a single pitch bend wheel and no mod wheel

Although not without their own limitations, Casio PX-5S and PX-560 are probably more suitable for you than the PX-S3000. They have more controls (including the pitch/mod wheels) and 5-pin DIN MIDI connections. PX-5S has lots of MIDI functionality and lots of knobs/sliders. PX-560 has built-in speakers, nicer interface, and improved strings, and still has some knob programmability. Both have nice EPs, including a set that Dave Weiser programmed which can be downloaded for free from the Casio forum. Brass is a weak point. See also: https://casiomusicgear.wordpress.com/2016/01/11/the-definitive-px-5s-vs-px-560-comparison/

 

The PC4 doesn't have a built in audio interface

Actually, it seems it does, according to post 3080057 at the Kurzweil K2700 thread. ETA: Nope.

[bfields]

Actually, it seems it does, according to post 3080057 at the Kurzweil K2700 thread.

 

Looks like that's about USB MIDI, not USB Audio?

 

(And thanks to ElmerJFudd for the that brass demo, I'd looked but hadn't found anything like that.)

[AnotherScott]

Actually, it seems it does, according to post 3080057 at the Kurzweil K2700 thread.

 

Looks like that's about USB MIDI, not USB Audio?

Oh, yes, sorry... I conflated one uncommon capability (being able to act as a USB host for an external controller) with another (sending/receiving audio over USB).

[dickiefunk]

There"s 2gb space for User Samples in the PC4.

There are lots of third party sample packs you could convert.

And there are ones made for PC4

And I believe you can use PC3 sample sets too. Or maybe they need conversion to PC4. Someone will clarify.

But yes. There are options.

 

 

[video:youtube]

 

This brass pack sounds good. They also have a couple of nice Rhodes packs on there that possibly sound nicer than the onboard Rhodes samples?

 

http://megapreset.com/?download=clean-rhodes

 

http://megapreset.com/?download=natural-rhodes-2

 

There"s also some nice sounding pads

 

http://megapreset.com/?download=atmospheric-pad

 

I wonder if there is a high quality acoustic piano sample pack for the Kurzweil PC4? It would be excellent if there is a high quality acoustic piano sample pack that would be better than the Ravenscroft app??

[AnotherScott]

If you want Rhodes, look at the Purgatory Creek stuff I mentioned earlier... https://www.purgatorycreek.com/index.php/vkc-for-kurzweil-forte/

[Fuzzy1]

Believe Me go and get a Kurzweil PC4 . You really won't regret this keyboard. I absolutely adore Mine !

[dickiefunk]

If you want Rhodes, look at the Purgatory Creek stuff I mentioned earlier... https://www.purgatorycreek.com/index.php/vkc-for-kurzweil-forte/

 

Thanks. Yes I also noticed their Mark II Rhodes pack is free.

[ElmerJFudd]

https://ksounds.com/product/epic-grand-piano-sample-library-kurzweil-pc3k/

 

 

 

 

 

[video:youtube]

[Cabo]

I was also searching for a lighter weight stage piano.

 

I currently have an RD-2000, and previously owned a CP4 and played a CP88. I played the MODX8 and bought and returned the RD-88. I would avoid both the MODX8 and RD-88.

 

I found the MODX8 action unusable for piano. I played it in a store for a half hour, tried to change settings --- I just couldn't stand the keyboard action. Sluggish is the word that comes to mind. It would be a fantastic solution, if only the action was passable.

 

I had bought the RD-88 to get a lighter version of my RD2000, but again was disappointed. The speakers are really useless (they really don't sound good and aren't loud enough for any sort of band environment). The board is really high - 6 inches -- mainly due to the speakers -- so it required me to raise up my top board higher on the stand, which made it seem too high. Also, I found the build quality to be very cheap feeling plastic - not sure I'd want to transport it too much. The display looked like something from 20 years ago -- too small and obviously cheap. I also had issues with the MainStage integration -- it really wasn't very useful; plus I missed the sliders, knobs, buttons on the RD2000. The acoustic piano sounds were okay -- the extra sounds were not so good -- nowhere near as good as the MODX. The Rhodes sounds were particularly poor, I thought.

 

I'd really like to try out the PC4, but that doesn't seem likely in the short term. I don't think anyone has one anywhere near me. The sound demos I've heard online didn't impress. Many of the sounds seem similar to my old K2600.

 

I've come to the conclusion that what I want (great feeling action, high quality sounds, excellent control surface, big, easy to read quality display) doesn't currently exist in a keyboard that is less than 40 lbs. I'm sticking withe the RD2000 for now (and plan to do more upper body workouts). I think the RD2000 or either of the Yamahas (CP4 or CP88) are much better choices that the MODX or RD88. Did I mention I hate wall warts?

[AnotherScott]

I've come to the conclusion that what I want (great feeling action, high quality sounds, excellent control surface, big, easy to read quality display) doesn't currently exist in a keyboard that is less than 40 lbs.

That PC4 could be a possibility, though action is subjective. But, being as good a controller as it is, you could also add an iPad for any sounds that you don't find up to snuff. Even lighter, you could consider the Casio PX-5S with an iPad to make up for its shortcomings in some sounds and to get the large display, basically using it as a controller. Everything's a compromise, but that combination gets you good action, good controls, good display, good sound, at about 25 lbs and reasonable budget.

[Cabo]

I had the Casio PX-5S too - piano sound was lacking (imo); plus a crazy weird interface. I think I'll just stick with the RD2000 for now. I appreciate it much more, now that I've gone through all these others. It's great to have everything you need in one box.

[AnotherScott]

I had the Casio PX-5S too - piano sound was lacking (imo); plus a crazy weird interface. I think I'll just stick with the RD2000 for now. I appreciate it much more, now that I've gone through all these others. It's great to have everything you need in one box.

I liked the PX-5S piano sound more after I downloaded a modified version from the Casio forum. But yes, the interface can be a bit of a challenge, and there are some areas where its sounds are weak. The iPad can address that, but then you do lose the convenience of "everything in the box." The question is whether that's worth saving 20 lbs or so over your RD2000.

[Fleer]

I hope the updated acoustic pianos in the Kurzweil K2700 will be available as sample packs for the Kurzweil PC4.

[Fleer]

At half the price and weight, the RD88 is a mighty fine alternative to Roland"s RD2000.

[Mighty Motif Max]

The RD-2000 sounds 100X better though (I don't care for either that much but I've played the 2000 a fair bit). Not to mention if you actually want controllers, the 2000 is the way to go.

[Mighty Motif Max]

I hope the updated acoustic pianos in the Kurzweil K2700 will be available as sample packs for the Kurzweil PC4.

 

Hi, so I got confirmation from Kurzweil at NAMM that the K2700 pianos are based on the same sample sets as the PC4 and Forte, but they're optimized specifically for that platform, and they're also fully unlooped. I'm not sure they would make it to the PC4.

[AnotherScott]

I hope the updated acoustic pianos in the Kurzweil K2700 will be available as sample packs for the Kurzweil PC4.

 

Hi, so I got confirmation from Kurzweil at NAMM that the K2700 pianos are based on the same sample sets as the PC4 and Forte, but they're optimized specifically for that platform, and they're also fully unlooped. I'm not sure they would make it to the PC4.

One of the big differences among the boards is the sample memory... Forte has the full sample set of 16 GB, PC4 had a cut down version of the Forte-specifc (non PC3, non Kore 64) sounds, to fit into its 2 GB, and this model has 4.5 GB. A lot of this difference is in the "German D" and "Japanese C7" pianos. It is an open question as to whether one or both of those K2700's piano sample sets would fit into the 2 GB of expansion user sample memory available in the PC4, even if you were willing to dedicate most/all of your expansion memory to grand piano. Assuming it could fit, though, it would be an interesting marketing decision to take the Nord approach and let you load different sets of K2700-specific sounds into the PC4... i.e. you could choose to load at least one of the big pianos, or big EPs, or other Forte-derived sounds that aren't in the PC4, just not all of them at once.

[Fleer]

My point exactly, A/Scott. And if those 4.5GB on the K2700 include all PC4 sounds (2GB) plus the unlooped pianos and a bunch of other Forte-derived instruments, then it wouldn"t be unlikely that each of those K2700 pianos would weigh less than 1GB, a perfect fit for the PC4"s 2GB user sample memory.

[Fleer]

The RD-2000 sounds 100X better though (I don't care for either that much but I've played the 2000 a fair bit). Not to mention if you actually want controllers, the 2000 is the way to go.

Well, I"m not alone in preferring the updated SuperNatural pianos in the RD88 to the ones in the RD2000, let alone the V-Piano. And the PHA-4 action is often preferred to the PHA-50 (and vice versa).

As for me, I just got in on Roland"s Fully Loaded Zen-Core promotion, including 46 lifetime sound packs and a year of Zenology Pro with all those legendary Roland synths at my fingertips in the RD88. You"d need a Fantom or a Jupiter to do the same, no RD2000 will come close.

As the OP is focusing on sounds, the RD88 will give you those and still only cost (and weigh) half as much.

[allan_evett]

The other point about the RD-2000 is that it's bulkier and significantly heavier than the RD-88. I owned and gigged one for close to three years; for someone who wants the Roland sound in a stage piano/synth hybrid it's great. I wanted a deeper Roland synth in a separate package, but liked their stage pianos; so I went with a Fantom and RD-88. Sure, the RD-88 has its limits and couple odd omissions; but those things occur with all electronic instruments.

 

Here's are a couple very thorough RD-88 demos from Merriam Music, in the Toronto area. Stu Harrison is one of my favorite demo players.

 

 

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

[Jazz+]

Kawai ES110 at 26 lbs is the best in its weight class.

[Fleer]

The other point about the RD-2000 is that it's bulkier and significantly heavier than the RD-88. I owned and gigged one for close to three years; for someone who wants the Roland sound in a stage piano/synth hybrid it's great. I wanted a deeper Roland synth in a separate package, but liked their stage pianos; so I went with a Fantom and RD-88. Sure, the RD-88 has its limits and couple odd omissions; but those things occur with all electronic instruments.

 

Here's are a couple very thorough RD-88 demos from Merriam Music, in the Toronto area. Stu Harrison is one of my favorite demo players.

Yeah, love Stu"s reviews, very thorough. And he"s one of those guys who prefer the PHA-4 action in the RD-88 to the (more sluggish) PHA-50 action in the RD-2000.

[AnotherScott]

Yeah, love Stu"s reviews, very thorough. And he"s one of those guys who prefer the PHA-4 action in the RD-88 to the (more sluggish) PHA-50 action in the RD-2000.

I think the last Roland hammer action I really liked a lot was the FP-7F. They don't seem to do light-and-quick feeling anymore. Same issue with Yamaha, who I don't think has had that kind of action since the CP1/CP5.

[ElmerJFudd]

I like the RD-2000 overall. Lots of great sounds in there, including tweakable pianos.

The action has weight and I enjoyed comping on it, especially rhythmic patterns.

However, I found it a little sluggish and tiring for virtuosic playing. Fast and or difficult stuff.

 

I haven"t got my hands on an RD88.

 

Love the action on the Yamaha CP88 though. Nice weighted swing and fast. Very piano-like.

[Mighty Motif Max]

I like the V-Pianos personally...the SuperNatural ones in the RD2000, not so much. The action is definitely all about taste - I am not a fan of the PHA-50 at all, but some people are. I thought it felt really odd, like it was light but also sluggish at the same time.

 

I guess it just would come down to how important piano is compared to the other sounds, where the RD-88 has all kinds of sounds and such, like you said. I could see it being stronger, although you still lose faders and that kind of thing.