erik_nie Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 more info: My DIY mixer Very flexible and I can select if i want my keys in the AUX back from FOH or use a mix from FOH without keys and mix them in myself. Most stuff including box and connector I just had from previous projects, only costed me the cheap PCB mixers. No noise and strong headphone levels! Quote Nord Piano 5-73, Nord Stage 3 Author of QSheets: The fastest lead sheet viewer in the world that also plays Audio Files and send Program Changes! https://qsheets.eriknie.synology.me/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 My apologies for the confusion. The suggestion from the Yamaha forum was an alternative routing to the one I diagrammed above. More like this... http://www.propertyshoot.com/dev/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Mixer-to-in-ears-2.jpg What I have diagrammed here (no DI or fancy-shmancy 'FOH') is my most common setup; my mixer direct to an ancient 'brick-style' powered mixer unit (the YAMAHA EMX212S I think) on stage. (5-piece Eric Clapton tribute band playing small bars and clubs). I've yet to find out what limitations it has to send me a monitor mix. Ahhh.. sorry, as usual I was confused - I thought this diagram was what the Yamaha forum people were suggesting. Now I see it's a setup that you use yourself (or close to it). I still say that getting a monitor mix back to your mixer through the 2trk inputs is inferior to using a channel input â but with this setup you'll definitely get a feedback loop if you use a channel input, so that's a no go. My advice â again â is keep it simple, don't spend big $$ on more gear, use what you have, get a female XLR to 1/4" TRS adapter and go with the setup you posted in your FIRST message of this thread. Use line in 1 or 2 to get the monitor mix from FOH, and try using the compressor on your board as a limiter â crank it up all the way to get the ratio as high as Yamaha lets it go, and adjust the input trim and the monitor send from the FOH board so you hear it start to squash at a slightly-beyond comfortable listening volume in your in-ears. Again - keeping all lines balanced between the keyboard & mixer and the FOH board might not be absolutely necessary on a smaller stage, but it'll guarantee you'll be ready for any playing situation where the line runs get longer â and all it'll cost you is the price of one adapter! PS - get a stereo DI! You never told us what you use for a keyboard but I can almost guarantee you'll enjoy yourself a lot more on a gig. All-mono in-ears sounds like torture to me! (OK, that might mean this will cost more than the price of an adapter ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokely Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Ok, that diagram above is close to what I did for a lot of gigs. In my case, inputs like those 2tr ins would not have helped me, because I needed a way to get all the signals (two keys and 1 monitor) out to my in-ear pack. That could work if you are using the submixer's headphone but that depends on the routing. I managed it using a pre-fader send: Keys 1 and 2 were on ch. 1 and 2, monitor from FOH was on 3. The send amounts for those 3 channels were all up, so that all 3 went out the aux master and out to my pack. The faders for 1 and 2 were up. The fader for 3 was down! I accidentally turned this up during a soundcheck and yes indeed got a big nasty blast of feedback. Best thing would just be to tape it down. This only works if that send is pre-fader, which rules out most small mixers. I specifically bought my Soundcraft notepad for that pre-fader send, and it was a real workhorse. Dead quiet, not a single issue with it for hundreds of gigs. I'd still be using it if we didn't get a QSC touchmix for FOH that allows me to control my own mix via my phone (and in stereo, which is glorious!). I now use a Key Largo because I wanted radial DIs, so figured why not get them in the KL...I wouldn't be able to use it like the Soundcraft though because it has a post-fader send. --- Alternatively, the send out could go to FOH, and the main outs could go to my pack. I did this for a while simply because I got a pack that had two XLR ins, and the main outs were XLR; less weird adapters the better. In this configuration, all three faders would be up but you'd want to make sure you never turned up that send on ch 3, which again would send the monitor back to FOH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throbert Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 My Current Rig My Dream RIG Quote Triton Extreme 76, Kawai ES3, GEM-RPX, HX3/Drawbar control, MSI Z97 MPower/4790K, Lynx Aurora 8/MADI/AES16e, OP-X PRO, Ptec, Komplete. Ashley MX-206. future MOTU M64 RME Digiface Dante for Mon./net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfields Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 By the way, is there anybody that does this with *just* a keyboard and no external hardware? Plug the monitor mix into one of your keyboard inputs, and route that to the headphone out (possibly through a limiter effect) but not to the main outs? In theory it seems like it shouldn't be hard to support, but I don't know if any keyboard does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 I think my Nord Stage 2 does that. The 1/8in "Monitor input" routes to the headphone socket, but not the audio outs. No limiter though. Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 My Nord Stage 2 does that I think. "Monitor In" comes through on headphones only. No limter though. Stage 3 changed the design, "Monitor in" routes to main outs as well as headphones. It's a little restrictive, because in practice you want to monitor a mix of all your boards, plus vocals, plus if you double on guitar, sax... Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokely Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 The Nord Electro 5 did as stoken6 said as well--however, they changed the Nord Electro 6 to let the incoming signal merge with the Electro's own sounds going to the outputs. I know this because I used my Electro 6 as a submixer for a few gigs Not sure if there was an option to limit this to the headphone outs or not, I actually wanted the incoming signal to go to the outputs, which it did by default iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 The Nord Electro 5 did as stoken6 said as well--however, they changed the Nord Electro 6 to let the incoming signal merge with the Electro's own sounds going to the outputs. I know this because I used my Electro 6 as a submixer for a few gigs Not sure if there was an option to limit this to the headphone outs or not, I actually wanted the incoming signal to go to the outputs, which it did by default iirc.I have a NE 5D and I wish it routed the monitor in to the normal outputs like the 6d. I've wondered if my 5d could be rewired to do this for a reasonable cost by a good tech. Of course, I'm assuming it's a hardware rather than a software issue. Quote Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon May Posted January 27, 2021 Author Share Posted January 27, 2021 Very flexible and I can select if i want my keys in the AUX back from FOH or use a mix from FOH without keys and mix them in myself. Most stuff including box and connector I just had from previous projects, only costed me the cheap PCB mixers. No noise and strong headphone levels! I approve your diagramming skills and your skills in building your own system Quote "I'm well acquainted with the touch of a velvet hand..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik_nie Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Thanks, I've designed and build many mixers myself, but could not design it better and cheaper than those mixer PCB boards. This way I could make the right connectors on the optimal sides of the box. The connectors towards the synths are also at the back of the box, therefor on stage can access everything from the backside. Now it's time to get back on stage... Quote Nord Piano 5-73, Nord Stage 3 Author of QSheets: The fastest lead sheet viewer in the world that also plays Audio Files and send Program Changes! https://qsheets.eriknie.synology.me/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon May Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 My apologies for the confusion. The suggestion from the Yamaha forum was an alternative routing to the one I diagrammed above. .... Ahhh.. sorry, as usual I was confused ... My advice â again â is keep it simple, don't spend big $$ on more gear, use what you have, get a female XLR to 1/4" TRS adapter and go with the setup you posted in your FIRST message of this thread. Use line in 1 or 2 to get the monitor mix from FOH, and try using the compressor on your board as a limiter â crank it up all the way to get the ratio as high as Yamaha lets it go, and adjust the input trim and the monitor send from the FOH board so you hear it start to squash at a slightly-beyond comfortable listening volume in your in-ears. Again - keeping all lines balanced between the keyboard & mixer and the FOH board might not be absolutely necessary on a smaller stage, but it'll guarantee you'll be ready for any playing situation where the line runs get longer â and all it'll cost you is the price of one adapter! PS - get a stereo DI! You never told us what you use for a keyboard but I can almost guarantee you'll enjoy yourself a lot more on a gig. All-mono in-ears sounds like torture to me! (OK, that might mean this will cost more than the price of an adapter ) Stellar advice, and the price is right! And I've only just come around to understanding your suggestion to use my boards compressor to possibly give some protection against volume spikes. Initially I thought, "he's thinking I'm using another mixer model with built-in effects". I've had that mixer for years and never toyed with the compressor! Quote "I'm well acquainted with the touch of a velvet hand..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Thanks! I'm probably the king of getting things done as cheaply as possible . I do think it's worth a try to see how that compressor does. Truth be told I've never needed the limiter on my little Rolls mixer, but that's probably because I only use it when I'm on the road with a monitor engineer that travels with us, is a pro, and knows exactly what I like to hear. "YMMV" as they say. My in-ears' main function is to be earplugs and cut down the DBs I'm getting from our loud stage. I try to keep their level as low as possible since I have pretty bad tinnitus (trying to preserve whatever hearing I have left!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillearning Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 ...Truth be told I've never needed the limiter on my little Rolls mixer, but that's probably because I only use it when I'm on the road with a monitor engineer that travels with us, is a pro, and knows exactly what I like to hear. "YMMV" as they say... I use the same little Rolls mixer, and like you, it"s limiter has likely never kicked in, and also gig with our own sound engineer. I would never be caught without a limiter in my in-ears chain. I also suffer from tinnitus due to a single incident on one gig... an instantaneous volume 'honk" at about 200hz through the stage wedges many years ago. Tinnitus is often permanent and no fun. Quote I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon May Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 Boo! My 2 mixer channels that have the compressor are both a single mono 1/4" in. The other jack is for insert effects. So I would need to use both channels in order to hear stereo... which is OK...channels are like my principles... I have others! Quote "I'm well acquainted with the touch of a velvet hand..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Huh? Isn't the send from the monitor just a single channel? Put that into either ch 1 or 2 and pan the channel to center (obviously). Your keys should go into channels 3/4 or 5/6 - those will be stereo. You shouldn't need limiting for your keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggypants Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 By the way, is there anybody that does this with *just* a keyboard and no external hardware? Plug the monitor mix into one of your keyboard inputs, and route that to the headphone out (possibly through a limiter effect) but not to the main outs? In theory it seems like it shouldn't be hard to support, but I don't know if any keyboard does. My VR09 can"t control the volume on the line in and it"s a 3.5mm jack are my two instant thoughts to that. I use a Behringer P1. It"s nice. Although I take the link out from the DI for my keys and it"s a smidge quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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