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Keyboard Height for Standing?


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Growing up with piano, pianos generally seem to be about 29-30" from the floor and I sit on a standard piano bench (not adjustable) that's like 18".

 

When I sit - properly - with good posture - sit up straight! - my forearms are basically parallel to the floor.

 

When I slouch - which is all too often, my forearms basically angle up from the elbows to reach the keys.

 

With keyboard stand and standing to play keys (a single keyboard) it seems kind of odd to set them up to account for the difference in standing. The tops of my keys would be like 39.5 inches (like 1 meter) if I'm standing (I'm only 5'4" on a good day, though I usually play in dress shoes).

 

But usually the keys are on a lower stand - or I myself set them up so the X stand is wide, meaning more stable.

 

But obviously I'm "reaching down" to the keys.

 

I'm not playing speedy licks or virtuosic stuff, but I have noticed I'll spread my feet apart to lower my whole body while playing a lot of times, meaning I probably feel I need them higher.

 

Also when they're low like that I tend to bend over forward a little too, which starts to strain the back (which is also probably why I spread my feet because I'll stand more upright if I'm lower).

 

I realize this is all personal taste and everyone's body is different, but assuming your standing and not sitting, what kind of height do you feel comfortable playing - is it "bad" (posture, tendonitis, etc.) to play with it lower, or is it better than higher, pros/cons to each? (as a guitarist strapping the guitar high makes access to the higher frets easier, and barre chords in general easier, but lower looks cooler :-)

 

Also, what about higher and angled down - at what height do you feel it advantageous to angle it down?

 

Should one's wrists be straight?

 

I'm just curious about others' experiences with this.

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I play standing, using a two-tiered Z stand and have the lower keyboard (which I use for piano) such that my forearms are roughly parallel to the ground. I find it easier to reach up than down, so the top keyboard is approximately 6-7 inches above the lower.

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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I play standing up. Very few stands are tall enough. My Standtastic stands would be tall enough but they are too bulky for stage. I use the K&M table stand with tiers for stage and I had to add a 2x6 frame to the table top to raise the bottom keyboard where it was comfortable to play standing up without my wrists bent.
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I currently have my stand at 34 1/2", which puts the bottom keyboard (top of white keys) at 39". Top board sits right on top of that, or as close as possible. But i'm 5'11", so i think that'd be definitely too high for someone who is a half a foot shorter.

 

Then again, even playing with the keyboard at seated height i prefer to sit on a taller stool, so i'm likely just used to what would be considered an "improper" height. I never paid any attention to whether my wrists were straight or forearms parallel to the floor or whatever, but just play how it feels comfortable to me.

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What Moonglow said, and I tilt the upper keyboard so the keybed is roughly parallel to my forearm when I play it.

 

The height and angles are important. Don"t crouch or reach painfully. Don"t get carpal tunnel. Good luck and happy times ahead!

Kawai KG-2C, Nord Stage 3 73, Electro 4D, 5D and Lead 2x, Moog Voyager and Little Phatty Stage II, Slim Phatty, Roland Lucina AX-09, Hohner Piano Melodica, Spacestation V3, pair of QSC 8.2s.

 

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At home, the lower tier is parallel-armed, and the upper tier is a reach up from 4 to 6 inches (10-15 cm).

 

In performance (rock / pop) I usually play with my upper keyboard low enough that my arms are raised between 0 and 2 inches (0-5 cm) from parallel to the ground; the lower (piano) tier is usually 4-6 inches below the upper. I like to be seen over my keyboards.

-Tom Williams

{First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com

PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361

 

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... assuming your standing and not sitting, what kind of height do you feel comfortable playing - is it "bad" (posture, tendonitis, etc.) to play with it lower, or is it better than higher, pros/cons to each? ...

Should one's wrists be straight?

I play standing. I'm 6 feet. I use a couple different stands -- a table stand and a Stay stand. I play a single keyboard. (I also double on sax -- sometimes I play both sax & keys at same time.) I like to have the keyboard height set so my forearms are slightly angled down. I don't like playing with my forearms angled up. I can't get at the keys efficiently that way; I can't play as well as when my forearms are flat or angled slightly down.

 

I edited this post to match the picture in my avatar. That's a Stay stand.

These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise.
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It´s a individual thing, so -

 

what "Moonglow" and "Ledbetter" said and the rest is individual adjustment in relation to your body height, arm´s length etc..

Dimension(s) of the upper tier keyboard play(s) a role too,- p.ex. the heigth of the keyboard´s front,- surface of keys to instrument´s bottom,- (rubber feet included WHEN it sits on a flat-top keyboard, like in my rig).

For me, at least the distance between lower- and upper tier keys was critical always and making compromises became inescapable.

It needed some time to build my nearly perfect stand from USS parts.

 

A.C.

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You should be comfortable playing standing up - not having to bend your hands up at the wrist (bad) or hunch down. I played standing up. (not gigging these days anymore.)

 

I always made my own stands to get the height correct, but if you can't find a standard stand that's high enough, then you can raise it up a few inches by adding something to the base. One standard stand I had long ago wasn't quite high enough, so I built some black wood risers ( 4" high ) that the stand would attach to at the bottom. Looked fine. Worked even better. Playing for 4 hours a night in an uncomfortable position will eventually be bad news.

 

If you think about it, when you're standing and your arms and hands are comfortable, your hands are actually pointing downwards, which means theoretically your keyboard should actually be angled down at the rear - which is not something most stands allow you to do. Having them angled down towards the front is the worst idea IMO. (unless they're stacked up so high you have to reach up to play them.) I like them level, at a comfortable height and as close together as humanly possible, so I always took the hard road and built my own.

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The K&M Spider Pro and Baby Pro can be adjusted continuously to the exact height you need. X-Stands and Z-Stands have static adjustments, the Spiders lower tier can be slid up or down easily.

 

-dj

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Hands parallel to the keys is the goal. There are a couple ways to do this.

 

1. Place keys at elbow level, levelled.

2. Place keys above elbow level, tilted down,

3. Place keys below elbow level, tilted up.

 

Here's an example from my yoot. This rig was quite comfortable to play.

 

http://www.hotrodmotm.com/images/misc/mixx_rig.jpg

Moe

---

 

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You definitely do not want to have to bend your wrists up with respect to your forearms. That can increase risk of carpal.

 

If you are going to play standing up, you probably need something other than an x-stand. They get narrow as you raise their height, which impairs stability of the keyboard. And you don't want to be setting the keyboard height lower than optimum because of limitations of the stand.

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I've been down the rabbit hole on the subject, both standing and sitting.

 

[video:youtube]

 

Few living persons are more aware of keyboard health issues than this person. She is sitting, but standing would be similar.

 

I have seen some very good sources advocate the elbows SLIGHTLY lower to foster a soft landing.

RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, 

SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2

Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4

MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals

Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. 

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At home, the lower tier is parallel-armed, and the upper tier is a reach up from 4 to 6 inches (10-15 cm).

 

In performance (rock / pop) I usually play with my upper keyboard low enough that my arms are raised between 0 and 2 inches (0-5 cm) from parallel to the ground; the lower (piano) tier is usually 4-6 inches below the upper. I like to be seen over my keyboards.

 

Yes, there is the whole "see" and "be seen" thing.

 

I'm primarily a guitarist and usually in bands where I double I put the keyboard to my right at a 90 degree angle to the front of the stage. But in this newest band I'm to the left of the drummer on the back row so I like to be able to see him and communicate visually for cues and stuff - when I'm no the front line I'm always staring at a wall or of to the side of the stage!

 

But I think if it's at elbow height that's still be plenty to see over (and I'm not using the upper tier in these bands).

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Y

If you think about it, when you're standing and your arms and hands are comfortable, your hands are actually pointing downwards, which means theoretically your keyboard should actually be angled down at the rear -.

 

Yeah I was thinking as I was writing this that we really need a "fanned" stand where a "too low" keyboard is angled downward (but maybe not to the extreme of the Nord post in this thread!) and "too high" ones angled up - which stands do do...I said do do...but there's probably a decent range where it's not too bad on either hand - organists have been doing it for centuries :-)

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The K&M Spider Pro and Baby Pro can be adjusted continuously to the exact height you need. X-Stands and Z-Stands have static adjustments, the Spiders lower tier can be slid up or down easily.

 

-dj

 

A Spider is a tough sell for me right now - how do the Ultimate stands compare - I have to be honest, those two angled bars never looked stable to me and the whole single shaft idea just looks like an accident waiting to happen. I think the big complaint on the ultimates is that the feet are in the way of pedals, right - I know the Spiders are elevated on their legs...

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Hands parallel to the keys is the goal. There are a couple ways to do this.

 

1. Place keys at elbow level, levelled.

2. Place keys above elbow level, tilted down,

3. Place keys below elbow level, tilted up.

 

Here's an example from my yoot. This rig was quite comfortable to play.

 

http://www.hotrodmotm.com/images/misc/mixx_rig.jpg

 

Yeah - I didn't notice in this pic you've posted before but I see the bottom board is angled down now - and with those A frame stands you can do that (you just have to turn the supports around so the peg keeps the board from falling off the backside!

 

The middle one there does look like it's a really comfortable level though.

 

I think I just need to get something that's "continuously adjustable" rather than "latches" into place like the X stand.

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Then there's Glen Gould

 

[video:youtube]

 

Haha, great post.

 

Bass players, same deal. Some famous ones with really bad wrist bends. My theory is they got conditioned to it very young. When you start something at more advanced ages I think most of us are much more vulnerable to carpal et al.

RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, 

SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2

Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4

MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals

Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. 

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Here"s another variable to consider: range of motion/flexibility/angle of hand/wrist compared to forearm. If you keep your forearm parallel to floor and then attempt to point your hand/fingers to the sky, some people can make their hand point straight vertically (I.e. 90 degrees or more). I can only manage 45 degrees. Anything more strains my wrist and compromises playing. I therefore must have keyboard height high enough that my wrist/hands are not bent up from forearms by much, if at all.

 

I think this is a genetic difference. Exercise or stretching doesn"t 'improve' my wrist range of motion. I"d love to be proven wrong.

Barry

 

Home: Steinway L, Montage 8

 

Gigs: Yamaha CP88, Crumar Mojo 61, A&H SQ5 mixer, ME1 IEM, MiPro 909 IEMs

 

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I've always like having the bottom keyboard on the stand positioned with the keys at normal piano height. My thought is it is good to keep with a standard that can be used in many situations.

 

But that doesn´t work for standing position performance at all !

 

A.C.

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I've always like having the bottom keyboard on the stand positioned with the keys at normal piano height. My thought is it is good to keep with a standard that can be used in many situations.

 

But that doesn´t work for standing position performance at all !

 

A.C.

 

I'm 5'10" and never had a problem. It is what you get used to. There are lots of videos of Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis standing up and playing a regular height piano.

This post edited for speling.

My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page

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