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Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread


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I guess it comes down to if a CP is right for ones needs, at home or gigging.

If acoustic pianos and electric pianos are the bulk of it, Yamaha CPs are great for the action and those sounds.

On this line, the ancillary sounds are always stuff for splits and layers with the pianos.

If action isn"t the priority but huge sound palette is, the MODX is a better choice.

If organ is your thing - we"ve lamented Yamaha"s efforts in that for a while.

The Genos or Montage are good, but you might want to look elsewhere for organs.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Dexibel"s Combo J7 has not been popular on this board. I wanted to love it, on paper it checked a lot of boxes. But the Leslie effect is very week compared to what we get onboard from Crumar, Hammond, Roland, Korg, Nord. Also the non-organ tones are nothing to write home about. I know the S model non-organ sounds may be better? I wound up with a B stock VR-700 (the 730 hadn"t appeared yet) when I was in the market. But ya, for acoustic pianos sounds Dexibell is building a following. Still, for piano I much prefer the Yamaha action on the CP4, CP88 compared to other slab DPs in the sub +/- $2k area.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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I think if you tweak the organs properly on the Dexibells you can get a pretty nice sound out of them , I use the spring reverb which is the last effect on my S3 . I played out with it about a month ago and the lead guitar player asked me what I was using for a leslie to speed up and slow down the organ sound and I told him it was the stock sound from the filter wheel , but he liked it . I was setting in with their keyboard player and he had a 7year old alesis that weighted 80 pounds and he liked the S3 and was amazed it weighted 23 pounds I would really like for someone to do a shootout with the Yamaha cp 88 Grand piano sound and the Dexibell Platinum Japanese piano sound to see which one sounds better .
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I went back and had a second play on the CP88 and P-515 next to each other. For pop/rock band stuff, the CP88 all the way. For Acoustic Jazz Trio context, or at home solo, or on a solo piano gig, I'd go with the P-515.

 

Dave-

 

Is that solely based on the extra resonances of the 515's piano sound compared to the CP88, or do you also feel the escapement adds something to the action that is noticeable in a jazz trio context? I'd have thought the extra 7 pounds of speakers you won't use would tip the scales toward the CP88 for jazz piano gigs.

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Dave I love mine. I mean the build quality is great and it reminded me why I like Yamaha keyboards in general. I can understand the P515 being better for your needs but I am more impressed with this than when I first got it a couple of weeks ago. I just updated the OS last night to the new version.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
Has anyone heard anything more about the black key issue on the 73? Latest word on the yamasynth.com forum seems to be that it affects some 73s and not others but no word on a fix. Doesn't appear to affect the 88 at all. The 73 is the one I want but not until this is resolved. Not willing to roll the dice and hope for a good one.
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  • 4 weeks later...
Ok, as of about 3 weeks ago the best suggestion from Yamaha on the Yamahasynth forum is to buy a CP88 instead of the 73 in order to avoid the " black key issue." For gigging I find the 73's size and weight much more attractive. Yamaha hedged and blamed,among other things,the stand being used causing the issue. Someone else said a real piano behaves in a manner similar to the 73's black key issue. Interesting since the 88 doesn't do this. Having played many acoustic pianos of varying makes and models I've never run into such a thing. Yes,people have CP73s that play fine but some don't. Seems like Yamaha's response to this issue rather half baked. Phooey. No CP 73 for me.
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The 88 is really manageable with the proprietary case. It's lighter than my forte and is really a good board regardless of the "black key issue" It's really a minor thing compared to what else the keyboard has to offer.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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The 88 is really manageable with the proprietary case. It's lighter than my forte and is really a good board regardless of the "black key issue" It's really a minor thing compared to what else the keyboard has to offer.

 

Thanks for sharing your take on the CP88. As I understand it only the 73 has the black key issue. Every reaction I've read or heard concerning the 88 says it plays great. Good to hear you're happy with it. I was looking forward to the smaller size and weight of the 73. Another biggie for me regarding both the 73 and 88is the use of an internal power supply and a real AC cord. Good on Yamaha for that. Right now I'm weighing the pros and cons of the 88. Still not sure I'll go that route since stuff over 40 lbs is a bit tough on this old bod. We'll see.

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I just switched over from the CP73 to the CP88 (thanks to my dealer).

Yamaha denied the Problem with the black keysâ¦â¦ well, maybe some models have it, some not.

Mine had it.

 

The CP88 plays and feels fantastic (I played a CP4 in the past but the user interface was a PITA).

The GUI and sounds are great.

 

I wanted a lightweight gigging board. But the CP88 is worth the extra schlepping.

;-)

 

 

Studio: Hammond XK5-XLK5,  Roland Fantom 8, Kurzweil PC3A6, Prophet 5, Moog Sub37, Neo Vent, HX3-Expander, LB Organ Grinder

Live: Yamaha CP88, Yamaha Motif Rack ES, Hammond SKX Pro, Hammond XB2-HX3,  Kurzweil PC3-61, Leslie 251, Roland SA1000, Neo Vent2

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  • 1 month later...
Now I see what they"re talking about. Playing a black note repeatedly, quickly, at maximum velocity, volume drops a little for the successive notes. I would have assumed that"s intentional, trying to replicate the limits of return of s real mechanism, but I don"t notice the same effect for white keys.

 

For me, this would make no possible difference in real playing. To hear this 'bug', I have to use a technique I"d never use while making music.

 

I wonder if the boards featuring the GHS key action also have this "bug" as CP73's BHS action. Could CP73 owners check this on boards like P-125/121, MODX8, YDP-143/144, DGX660?

 

Yamaha P-515, Korg SV-2 73, Kurzweil PC4-7

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Playing a 73 note keyboard is like not being 21 and old enough to drink legally.

 

I'd say it's subjective and depends on your playing style, or the adaptability of your playing style.

 

For me, playing an 88 is like going on a date where the girl's mother comes along with you.

 

I now have a P121 as my office keyboard. It's great. Smaller footprint perfect for the space. I won't be back in my office until next year, but I'll see if I can notice the black key issue then.

 

Just to reprise my assessment -- CP88 much better for piano technique. CP73 better for rhodes/wurly/clav. Rapid repeated notes go more with certain piano styles. If you play those styles, you should be getting the 88 regardless of any black key issue.

 

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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' For me, playing an 88 is like going on a date where the girl's mother comes along with you.'

 

 

:)

 

This is both funny and ridiculous. It"s the driver, not the car.

You"ve made it to second base wether you go in gang busters from the front or skillfully remove the proverbial garment blind around the back. ;)

 

As has been proven over and over again - we can play on anything. mini keys, skinny keys, slow actions, fast actions, weighted - semi weighted - tight and springy - loosie goosie. It"s all preference, simply what you like and what you"ve become accustomed to - and adaptation is always possible. In fact, if you"re married long enough she might appreciate a change in style now and again.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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CP organs are not as good as those on MODX.

 

The question is not why would you buy the CP for organ. The question is, are the CP organs good enough to get you through even a very low priority gig where you'd prefer to bring only the CP to minimize shlep. For me, the answer is no.

 

and that's the deal breaker for so many.

 

Yamaha went hard at the tonewheel for the Genos, and it's the best tonewheel yamaha I've seen. They even designed the drawbar shape after the Hammonds just for it.

 

There is no excuse in 2019 for the CP not to have a great drawbar organ, except that the design team is in a bubble--or maybe just the team leader. It's like, not only does the ModX not have polyAT, a 30 year old feature, it does not have any AT. WTF, Y!

 

I found both the CP and ModX attractive, with lots of great stuff, but these issues drop my jaw, and take them out of consideration.

 

The top of the line products are also fraught with strange "cheapness": the montage can't play as expressively with some of the latest sounds as the Genos, I read, but the Genos lacks the audio interface of the Montage, so audio tracks can be isolated easily going out to a DAW.

 

I am still very attracted to the Genos as home jammer and chop maker. For sound design Yamaha makes my head hurt, but the Montage's ability to take samples fast is pretty impressive.

 

 

 

RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, 

SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2

Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4

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Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. 

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I see your point, but I am thinking out loud and don't get me wrong:

Yamaha CP was always the stage piano series, first electric, then analog and digital. The are actually making a wider range of sounds available nowadays but then main purpose is the piano.

Also P series is for the home, or very limited live purpose.

MODX is like the medium synth category. A lot more than the MX but not the do-it-all machine, that's what the price is related to.

So you got the Montage, everything is top notch in here.

1. Why don't you buy Montage?

2. Why Yamaha release Montage if CP does it all?

All brands have series, check Nord. Electro, Piano, Stage. Why won't you compare Nord Piano with CP and say that the CP is more flexible and also has some organ sounds?

Also check prices and get back with an alternative of CP in the same category and price range which does more that the CP in most of the aspects...

 

And another thing. If BHS in the CP73 is the same as the one in the Montage 88, I can't figure out what's wrong. Maybe Velocity curve's settings? I didn't here something similar for Mintage action.

 

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Just thinking....

Yamaha is always careful with their IP - they don"t put everything in one board at any price.

 

The Genos has their best attempt at organ - it also has their best quality 76 key semi-weight synth action and 9 faders. Yamaha believes the arranger features place its value at $6k.

 

The Montage comes in 61, 76, and 88 keys. All actions are in their better quality category. It doesn"t have the Genos organ, and they gave it only 8 faders. It does have arguably their most capable FM synth engine ever. But no AN engine. $2-$4k.

 

The MODX is a trickle down Montage - price and weight for gigs. Removed 4 faders and dropped to their lesser quality actions (other cuts in capability as well). $1.4 -1.9k.

 

Yamaha CP88 only comes in 88k and 73. This line is traditionally focused on pianos. This model has no faders and is not offered in a synth action, organ is not a priority. Sound engine is AWM2 only which Yamaha believes is their best tech for reproducing acoustic and electric pianos. The 88 has one of their best quality actions at $2.5k. At $2k it"s a little smaller a little lighter but a lesser action.

 

Point I"m trying to make is.... Yamaha is very conscious of what we do and don"t get from them and the price point. Even the unicorn of Yamaha keyboards (the EX) had VL, AN, AWM and no FM.

 

 

 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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  • 2 weeks later...

Can anyone comment on the flexibility of the CP88's MIDI functions for utilizing multiple voices at once?

 

For instance -- wondering if I MIDIed my Mojo dual up to the CP88, if I could use the Mojo's upper manual to control a clav or a pad from the CP88, and if I could play a different sound on the CP88 itself simultaneously. For example, if I was playing Peg by Steely Dan, I can imagine a scenario where I want to play the CP88 Rhodes with my right hand, and the CP88 clav from the Mojo with my left. I know I could set up a split on the CP88 itself, but for argument's sake, let's say I was hell-bent on doing it this way!

 

I realize this is sort of specific to my idiosyncratic needs, but I thought it was worth a poke of the thread before I spent too long trying to figure it out from the manual, which just covers the basic send/receive info.

Samuel B. Lupowitz

Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.

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RE the CP73/88 organ shortcomings, there is room on the right end to velcro an HX3 organ module. Run its output into the CP's audio input, MIDI it up and play the HX3's presets. The CP's input gain works beautifully and the CP 73's (at least) action is not bad for playing organ, at least for this piano player- I have actually come to enjoy it. Resistance is comparable to the Nord Stage 3 88 and glisses are not a problem.
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RE the CP73/88 organ shortcomings, there is room on the right end to velcro an HX3 organ module. Run its output into the CP's audio input, MIDI it up and play the HX3's presets. . . .

 

So Yamaha fixed the nasty ground loop buzz you would get if you tried that with a CP4?

Kawai KG-2D / Yamaha CP33 S90ES MX49 CP4 P515 / Hammond SK1 / NS3 88 / NS3Compact

QSC K8.2s K10.2s KSubs / SoundcraftUi24 / SSv3 / GK MB112 MB115 MB210 Neo410

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I now have a P121 as my office keyboard. It's great. Smaller footprint perfect for the space. I won't be back in my office until next year, but I'll see if I can notice the black key issue then.

 

 

My P121 exhibits a similar black key behavior where quickly repeated hard struck notes result in a somewhat diminished volume for the follow-ons. I don't know if it's exactly the same because I can't put the P121 and CP73 side by side. I want to say it's a little less noticeable on the P121, but that's kind of a hard comparison for me to make because I wasn't noticing it on either keyboard until I purposefully tried to make it happen.

 

The P121 is a great little piano. I did a dinner set for my organization's holiday party, really enjoyed playing it. This involved walking 5 blocks from my office to the party venue carrying it on a shoulder strap, so I was glad for the portability.

 

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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Can anyone comment on the flexibility of the CP88's MIDI functions for utilizing multiple voices at once?

 

For instance -- wondering if I MIDIed my Mojo dual up to the CP88, if I could use the Mojo's upper manual to control a clav or a pad from the CP88, and if I could play a different sound on the CP88 itself simultaneously. For example, if I was playing Peg by Steely Dan, I can imagine a scenario where I want to play the CP88 Rhodes with my right hand, and the CP88 clav from the Mojo with my left. I know I could set up a split on the CP88 itself, but for argument's sake, let's say I was hell-bent on doing it this way!

 

I realize this is sort of specific to my idiosyncratic needs, but I thought it was worth a poke of the thread before I spent too long trying to figure it out from the manual, which just covers the basic send/receive info.

 

Sam if we can get together you can try out mine.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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