Is this Jimmy Smith's "Sermon" setting?

[Mitch Towne]

In the famous video of Joey D imitating famous organ players, how shows how Charles Earland and Don Patterson played almost exclusively with three fingers.

[b3halt]

Jimmy's bass lines and playing got better as time went on. It was his later recordings that I am a fan of, and those are what I was hoping the pros would pay a tribute to.

 

You could hear it in his live tracks comparing earlier studio versions to later where he would throw in extra fills anywhere there was space. For example, if you listen to a song like "The Organ Grinder's Swing" there's many versions of it. In the early versions, he plays the melody line and that's it. Later on in a live recording he's playing at warp speed throwing in fills between each phrase and the bass line has slides. In other words, the songs evolved. There's nothing wrong with recording a studio track and then a better live version with more fills.

 

Nah, I disagree. Listen to his live recordings from Blue Note like Incredible Jimmy Smith at Club Baby Grand and Groovin' at Small's Paradise. He was smokin' and this is incomparable to his late recordings.

 

His playing changed over the years. He played a little bit more bebopy during the Blues Note years, and then he played a lot more bluesy during the Verve years. I personally like his playing from Blues Note and Verve. After around 1965, he started playing more modern stuff like quartal voicings and lines. I probably have all the Jimmy Smith albums, and I usually don't listen to his late recordings. They are good, but I like earlier ones better.

 

Yes, his first organ grinder swing is short, but listen to other tracks. He improvises a lot more and his playing is so solid. Just smokin' and so good. He might not have played many fills back then, but this doesn't mean his playing wasn't better. He chose not to do so. In my opinion, it's not a good observation.

[Jazz+]

Did Jimmy Smith change his setting from "The Sermon" to The Chicken Shack"? Is the difference that "Sermon" has 88800000 just C3 on while "Chicken Shack" has 88804000, C3 and Percussion On ?

 

"The Sermon" was recorded August 25, 1957 & February 25, 1958 and released on December 1959 on the Blue Note label. Producer: Alfred Lyon

 

"Back at the Chicken Shack" was recorded in 1960 and released in 1963 on the Blue Note label.

 

 

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkyTS_-Pqqw

 

[video:youtube]

 

[B3Nut]

 

Rudy Van Gelder used his typical setting. He miked the Leslie and also used the direct line out from the Hammond, so he mixed both. I believe he had the C3 in his studio.

 

The Sermon was Jimmy's own B-3 and 21H. RVG didn't get the storied '59 C-3 until he built his Englewood Cliffs studio which came online in 1960. The Sermon was recorded at Manhattan Towers. The Englewood Cliffs era used the C-3 (up to the present day) but prior to that the organist had to bring their own organ or arrange a rental.

 

Incidentally, Jimmy's first rig (as heard on A New Sound, A New Star for example) was a B-2 and 31H. You can see a very young JOS seated at that rig on one of the Blue Note best of compilations...the frowny upper louvers portending much attitude to be found in the grooves...

 

TP

[Jazz+]

Thanks. So it was 2 different organs but basically the same setting? Or did one have Percussion On and the other Off?

 

888000000, C3 On, Percussion Off, Leslie Stopped ?

 

or did the Chicken Shack have a bit of the 5th drawbar added?

[Jazz+]

Now tha Mojo Leslie sim has been upgraded I go with

Leslie On Slow, 888000000 and C1

 

I realized I really prefer C1. C3 is too much for me, to much motion. C1 is much more subtle and just right with slow Leslie. Percussion goes on or off to brighten the the lower octave to taste and miraculously Percussion does not really seem to boost the top octave, and the slow Leslie also smooths the top octave. I have Preset B at 73800000 for comping.

[Keysguy]

I remember reading somewhere on Rudy's studio C3. he tapped a line signal off the preamp and recorded that on separate track EQ'd just for bass. I tend to believe it because I was never able to get a bass sound that strong and full from a stock Hammond. On my gig B3 I had a Nova IV bass unit installed with an output to a bass amp to boost my bass. It was killer

BTW just saw Tony Monaco not long ago and he has a subwoofer he puts his 145 on top of. Monster player and big sound.

[LX88]

B3 Nut.....

 

Are you sure this organ isn't the B-2 Jimmy had? Something about it screams that its an older organ. So much spit and keyclick. I have almost never heard this much click out of a 3 series organ.

 

Now for more CV discussion. To me 2 series and V series have a different sounding CV. It's more shallow...not as much intensity of vibrato...which is what I prefer lately.

 

There is a very interesting sample in the newer Key B / Viscount that is a sample supposedly of a BC organ. And I absolutely love it!!! There is a more shallow CV and that really deep all the way down bass. It sounds very good WITHOUT percussion and more similar to The Sermon kind of sound than any other clonewheel I have tried.

 

I have to say....most clonewheel keyclick sounds artificial to me and that is probably due to lack of multi contacts

 

Jazz plus.... maybe try editing your CV setting/ ?

 

Also...the CV on this track sounds like it is on, not off . Listen between 050 seconds and 0 55. Its just more shallow that later organs.

[LX88]

Also...do any one of you have the Viscount / Key B module?

 

I am curious if it has the BC sample I mentioned above.

 

I did get a Mojo module last year and honestly, the editing drives me crazy! I thought I would give it another chance because I already have a

Key B.

 

So Jazz Plus...do you use leslie sim when you play this type of sound?

[drawback]

I have a Mojo 61 and I reduced the CV and the Percussion intensity levels a couple of years ago. I boost the bass EQ and use the Leslie sim at stopped. Editing up the Cabinet Tube Overdrive in the Editor helped too. The Overdrive knob on the Mojo 61 itself is more intense, like too intense with rockish overdrive. I use the Mitch Town B3 model. I use a Fender Rumble solid-state bass amp on the Left channel and a Fender tube guitar amp on the Right channel for some real tube warmth/drive.

 

That sounds like a good amplifier setup for organ. Just curious â how is it for the Rhodes?

[cedar]

In the famous video of Joey D imitating famous organ players, how shows how Charles Earland and Don Patterson played almost exclusively with three fingers.

 

I'll have to search for that video. Sounds quite cool.

[cedar]

On the topic of bass lines, Joey DeFrancesco blows me away. I think he's amazing at playing bass lines in any style, but I'm especially enamored with how he plays funk/pop tunes, like here.

 

[video:youtube]