Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[MotiDave]

I had a girlfriend back in the 80s ... she was so hot, exciting, everyone in the room at every gig always knew she was there. But she was so needy and high maintenance, I eventually just couldn't deal with her anymore.

 

sigh, she was worth alot more effort than a speaker amp. dang, she was fun. and hot. and exciting. i should give her a call ... maybe she's easier to deal with now

[Bossbandbob]

you guys bring a separate monitor for yourself when you use your SS3 as a stage amp? and a foam core baffle to control its output. and a subwoofer. and a mixer. huh.

Not any more at a venue that size..All I will bring next time is the Space Station. As a first time user from reading comments on this thread, I brought all that stuff just to cover all the bases. It's always better to have more stuff than you need at a gig than to say " I wish I had this or that." (I did not bring a mixer..I had the VR-09. feeding into the PX-5S.)

 

[Jazzmammal]

Nah, she's divorced after two marriages, has 3 kids and gained 50 pounds.

 

Then there's this:

 

http://www.myconfinedspace.com/2007/07/04/reality-motivational-poster/

 

Bob

[Bossbandbob]

Get a comfortable stage mix, find out I'm so loud out front the sound man has to pull me out of the mix just to manage me, get asked to turn down later? That would be a nightmare scenario for me. I'd never get hired for that job again. While I am glad it fit the bill for you on that gig, I might have posted the exact same report as a scathing review of the box, had it happened to me.

 

Having everyone in the band including OUR sound man love my sound with SS amp was hardly a nightmare. This was the best gig, sound-wise, with this band I ever had! I had discussed this with the sound guy beforehand, told him it was my first live use of the SS and that he may have to pull me down in FOH because of the nature of this amp. He did not mind at all the 1 second adjustment it took for him to bring my channel's slider down and loved the sound basically emanating from the amp and having 1 less thing in the PA to compete with the vocals. He brought my level down in the FOH, the SS WAS my stage mix- I did not hear a difference on my stage level at all after he did that. With less people in the room to absorb the sound during our last set, a slight tweak downward of the PX-5S volume knob was not too hard for me to deal with either...those two 2 second adjustments were hardly high maintenance.

 

 

[DanL]

you guys bring a separate monitor for yourself when you use your SS3 as a stage amp? and a foam core baffle to control its output. and a subwoofer. and a mixer. huh.

 

I hope all the amazing positive feedback inspires Aspen to expand his line with a SSvBigBro - throw in a 10" or 12" front main, double or triple the power amps, not sure if the bidirectional side speaker needs up-size. when that happens, I'm jumping back in.

 

until then, I'm thrilled with the success he is seeing so far (just a neat guy imo) and happy v3 is hitting the sweet spot for so many of you. rock on!

 

I bring a mixer unless I'm using 1 board. 2 or more- need a mixer no matter what amplification I'm using- SS3, K10, IEM's... Part of my regular setup.

[Brettymike]

I had a girlfriend back in the 80s ... she was so hot, exciting, everyone in the room at every gig always knew she was there. But she was so needy and high maintenance, I eventually just couldn't deal with her anymore.

 

sigh, she was worth alot more effort than a speaker amp. dang, she was fun. and hot. and exciting. i should give her a call ... maybe she's easier to deal with now

 

 

My Man! most of mine are with me on facebook

Brett

[Doug Robinson]

"Having everyone in the band including OUR sound man love my sound with SS amp was hardly a nightmare. This was the best gig, sound-wise, with this band I ever had! "

 

 

This is where perspective comes in. I read that as the soundman saying "You know what? It sounded better using your system than mine for your keys."

 

 

MOI said "I'd never get hired for that job again."

 

Really? The sound man moved your fader down and lo and behold the sound improved (to his ear) and you'd get fired for that? It must be an awfully fragile band relationship. Can the sound guy actually fire a band member?

 

 

"you guys bring a separate monitor for yourself when you use your SS3 as a stage amp? and a foam core baffle to control its output. and a subwoofer. and a mixer. huh."

 

As others have said, I only use a mixer if I want to plug a mic or another 'board in. I bring my little trifold to one gig where the drummer is forced to sit directly to the left of the amp due to space constraints, but no other gigs. Really, sound comes out of the left side--try not to put anyone right up close to it. It's not rocket science, really. If you pointed a Fender Twin directly at someone onstage, they probably wouldn't dig that either.

 

I don't use a sub but I've had some fun using a little bass amp as a sub on certain gigs. I don't see what's the big deal--even people who use two powered speakers sometimes bring two, and others bring only one depending on the gig.

[El Lobo]

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GFWGTRAMP

I use this stand to put the SS on it's side. The front of the amp is facing up at about a 40 degree angle. The floor is a reflecting surface. Works very well like this. Ray

 

I use 2 of these to put my QSC's on. I guess I'm already set. All I need now is the SS.

[Bossbandbob]

Damn near put out my back carrying that 7lb monitor and piece of foam core last night!

I do wish the SS was about 7lbs lighter with a built in 2 channel mixer but I did make a ghetto rolling case for it out of a rolling,extendable handled suitcase and a bungee cord. Worked like a charm!

[Doug Robinson]

Tonight I've got a corner--going to try turning it around and facing it inward and see how it works. Some of you have done that, right?

[Raymb1]

Played at a winery this afternoon. In the open, no reflecting surfaces, just the grass. AP sounded great, EPs were a little muddy and slightly distorted. Organ sounded very good. Wonder why EPs were muddy. Ended up sticking with the AP for most of the gig. Played CDs during breaks, bass was booming. Had to turn down Ron Carter and John Patitucci! Bass on tracks from iRealPro was great, no distortion.

[Bossbandbob]

I am planning on buying the SS over the summer but I like experimenting with this stuff. Would a set up like this with two powered monitors approximate the SS? The right side- firing speaker is passive. One side-firing powered speaker (left) has R & L rca inputs (swapping them changes polarity?),this monitor I am using for R-L actually has a passive speaker output. The other powered speaker (center) has two channels of 1/4" input.

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss153/bossbandbob/Ideas%20-%2012.jpg

Actually just tried this with 2 side firing speakers. Not sure if I actually reversed the polarity on those and if this sounds like the Space Station but this sure does sound good with a leslie sim or my Ipod playing. The stereo effect is strong anywhere in the room except when your right near the speakers. The volume is also the same anywhere in the room. It follows me into the next room and up the stairs as well but with decreasing volume with distance.

EDIT: Even though the speakers are 6' in front of my keyboard, the Leslie effect seems to be coming from behind me as well. Tres Cool!

As I just did actually buy a SS, the above configuration does work and will give one some idea of how the real thing sounds. Not quite as spacious due my lack of knowledge

of how to create a width control, but as noted, the sweet spot seemed everywhere.

 

 

[Dave Osoff]

Raymb1 - I use the same stand. I'll have to try putting the SS on it's side next gig... Haven't tried that yet.

[Doug Robinson]

The SS facing a corner? Not for me. The crowd loved the sound--several musicians out there--but I felt too soft, the drummer thought I was loud, the other two thought it was good. Yuk, won't do that again.

[MathOfInsects]

MOI said "I'd never get hired for that job again."

 

Really? The sound man moved your fader down and lo and behold the sound improved (to his ear) and you'd get fired for that? It must be an awfully fragile band relationship. Can the sound guy actually fire a band member?

 

Well, no, of course, though that's not what I meant.

 

First, to clarify: I posted that comment more as a testimony that no two people's needs are the same. If I were in the exact same situation as Bossandbob, I would have felt that my stage monitor was not allowing me to reliably control stage and/or FOH volumes. I would have considered that a flaw, at least for that night or venue or job.

 

But that exact situation, with all the same factors, represented a success story for Bossandbob. And I suspect there are plenty of others for whom the best feature of the SS3 is that they can be louder than they realize out front while at comfortable levels onstage. So the moral is exactly as jazz mammal said: no amp is perfect for everyone in every situation. And again...I love my SS3 and it's great for way more than it's not-great for.

 

I do mostly sideman jobs. In the next three weeks, I have 16 services with eight different "bosses." Some are recurring, some are new--people I haven't played with before, or (more often) people I've played with but not for the guy who is writing the checks.

 

I fall squarely in the "every job is an audition" philosophy of freelance hustling. If I were hired for a job and dominated the front of house sound to the point where the sound man pulled me completely from the mix (and, accordingly, had to mix the rest of the FOH around my levels), I would expect not to be hired back. I'd consider that a failed gig on my part. Whether I actually am hired back is in the bandleader or contractor's hands. Maybe they like me and my perfectly toned abs and glutes enough to use me again and just ask me to watch the volume next time. But I'd consider that a reason not to hire me again, regardless of whether they did.

 

This is both a big and a small market--small in that you can work a lot if you hustle and are reliable and decent at what you do; but big in that there are others who can warm your seat just as well as you can, should it come to that. So I'm particularly sensitive to the things that I think make me a good seat warmer for those who plop me there. And for me, effectively managing stage volume and FOH sound is an integral part of the job.

 

YMMV, that's just my own bias.

[niven8]

Well put MathOfInsects!

Totally agree.

[Al Quinn]

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GFWGTRAMP

I use this stand to put the SS on it's side. The front of the amp is facing up at about a 40 degree angle. The floor is a reflecting surface. Works very well like this. Ray

 

 

I use the same stand based on your recommendation. Thanks for that! So far, I've only placed the SS vertically on gigs. I tried horizontal at home and it seemed promising. Just haven't had the need to do this on a gig yet.

[Danny Linguini]

I do mostly sideman jobs. In the next three weeks, I have 16 services with eight different "bosses." Some are recurring, some are new--people I haven't played with before, or (more often) people I've played with but not for the guy who is writing the checks.

 

I fall squarely in the "every job is an audition" philosophy of freelance hustling. If I were hired for a job and dominated the front of house sound to the point where the sound man pulled me completely from the mix (and, accordingly, had to mix the rest of the FOH around my levels), I would expect not to be hired back. I'd consider that a failed gig on my part. Whether I actually am hired back is in the bandleader or contractor's hands. Maybe they like me and my perfectly toned abs and glutes enough to use me again and just ask me to watch the volume next time. But I'd consider that a reason not to hire me again, regardless of whether they did.

 

This is both a big and a small market--small in that you can work a lot if you hustle and are reliable and decent at what you do; but big in that there are others who can warm your seat just as well as you can, should it come to that. So I'm particularly sensitive to the things that I think make me a good seat warmer for those who plop me there. And for me, effectively managing stage volume and FOH sound is an integral part of the job.

 

YMMV, that's just my own bias.

You're such a whore.

 

Seriously, hats off to you -- I could never do that. I don't think I could handle the stress of that kind of unknown all the time.

[Aspen]

I'm almost, (and that's a big almost) ready to call the experiment a mixed success and sell the SS3 and pick up another K10 to run in stereo.

 

I can relate to that a bit but still prefer the SS to the K10, and I'd lean towards a SS K10 combo before a pair of K10's. That said, I've been meaning to try the SS with a small amp like the ILoud blasting right in my face (perhaps actually sitting on a keyboard like built ins). Anyone try something like that out?

 

Chiming in at this point to share some of my experiments along this line. First off, it certainly can be done and work well as several SS3 owners have discovered when using a small bass amp (or even a FR Powered amp). Their intention was to utilize an existing instrument amp asset to "sub as their Sub" on gigs where they felt they needed more LF.

 

DanL situation is not exactly the same, but could benefit from a similar solution. I assume DanL has tried to dial back the width and crank the level, which will give more directivity, but yet it is still not loud enough for his direct stage monitor. (NOTE: if not yet tried, I suggest this is the simple 1st step to correct his issue).

 

However it seems from what he's said that he just needs more stage "punch" and is willing to sacrifice a CPS image by returning to a conventional pair of K10s to get "stereo". But I caution him that a spaced pair of conventional L&R speakers come with their own issues that are well known to those here; a very small stage sweet spot and a much larger sour spot for everyone else concerned. CPS solves that issue, and that is why we are reading about so many great SS3 comments from your band mates and the FOH guys. So going back to Georgia on the Midnight Train is certainly not a perfect solution for DanL. Nor is adding another directional sound wave making machine from yet another point source on stage going to make your band mates OR your FOH mixer happy. Remember, the K10 is like a beaming flash light, while the SS3 is a soft light bulb that is more "vocal mic" friendly for the FOH guy, as well as a better monitor of your playing for your bandmates, and ONE speaker source will cause less phasing issues for the FOH Mixer.

 

All that said and considered, and with the caveat that I do not feel the SS3 is "lacking" in anyway and/or "needy" just because we have a soft 300 degree dispersion character (which I consider a massive plus for 98% of the gigs you will play, as many have witnessed here)...I have played around with something like this configuration. That is, SS3 with an added full range powered monitor for more both SPL and more a directional monitor. And it can work well, you can have "the best of both worlds", but only IF a few principles of audio physics are followed:

 

1) the added full range speaker should be aligned as closely as possible to the vertical plain of the SS3, so as to maintain the benefits of a single "Center Point" of dispersion. So when possible, I'd place the full range "flashlight" under the S3. I am not sure your QSC will allow anything to be placed on top of it, as it has an angled platform, but I think a small counter angled foam wedge could be made to allow that...or even easier would be a small strip of wood to raise the rear 2 rubber feet of the SS3. But with most instrument amps they have a larger flat top surface footprint so this is not a big issue. If the instrument amp is smaller than the SS3 (not likely) then place it on top of the SS3. In either case, make sure they face the same way.

 

2) The added powered speaker should see the same L+R signal as the SS3, if it has a L&R input then likely it will be "summed to mono" anyway in the input panel. A mixer with a 2nd monitor out would be my 1st choice..allowing separate level control for more flexibility, but if you aren't using a mixer then this can be taken from the SS3 Sub out (which is full range BTW). You may want to use the SS3 sub out anyway as once you balance the Width setting (step 3) the SS3 Level control will give you one master Level control that will maintain that balance (making your life easier if levels need adjustment on the fly at the gig)

 

3) Mixing the balance b/w the new dual Front speakers and Side speaker levels is the final step. Generally speaking, as you use more level from your added instrument (mono, L+R) amp, you may want to increase the Wide level from your SS3 to compensate. That is, more Width to keep up with your added L+R. This balance is going to be subjective; and it will depend on the gig situation, the environment, the placement and finally the requirement of DanL to hear himself!

 

Again, as Dglavko suggested (and I strongly concur), this mix of a K10 and a SS3 would probably be a better solution IF you decide you want to take 2 speakers to the gig, and if you feel you need the added directive "punch" of that more directional K10 for your personal monitoring. This solution may be more complicated the first time out, but it would provide that monitoring punch you need, maintain the added benefit of a Center Point of dispersion PLUS retaining that soft wide CPS 3D image, so your band mates and FOH mixer will also be happy.

 

Just my 2 cents, worth exactly what you paid.

[Aussie_Chicago]

You mean something like his ? I used a yam DXR10 instead of a K10, SSV3 sat nicely on top, I had a much fuller sound with the Rhodes and Hammond. I set it up exactly like this, both keys into mixer, balanced outs to FOH, phones out split to SSV3 ins;, sub out of SSV3 to mono in of DXR. I also had the DXR slightly off center of the L+R of the SSV, to give the singers a better level, but I could still hear it clearly. This pic is from a gig 2 weeks ago.....

http://s17.postimg.org/gd8powg0v/11401534_710607152419036_829249398272654064_n.jpg

image hosting 30 mb

 

 

[J. Dan]

So when possible, I'd place the full range "flashlight" under the S3.

 

Why under instead of over? For players who play standing, most of us have noticed that the K10 angle isn't right unless you prop up the edge, or set it on top of something (I often set it on the drum riser). It seems like setting it on top of a SSv3 would be a good solution.

 

If I were running stereo, I would think I'd start with keys only in space station, and the rest of my monitor mix in k10 (vocals, etc), then if necessary, add keys to K10 and balance with Wide.

 

That's all just a guess based on everything I've read since I haven't tried it.

[spazzkey]

Tonight I've got a corner--going to try turning it around and facing it inward and see how it works. Some of you have done that, right?

 

 

I tried it, ended up being too muffled for my taste although in retrospect I could have played with the SS eq's...

 

how'd it work out for you?

 

[spazzkey]

I was adding to my other post but now that Alan posted about the Nord , I'd thought I'd give my extra thoughts in another post following his.

 

I'd like to hear the Nord Fazioli sample through it.

 

the fazioli XL has become my go to piano - it didn't do it for me in mono through the AI ten2, but with the SS it's pretty awesome!

 

and Dave - would love to hear your thoughts on the SS run post your special pre-amp if you get a chance to try that configuration...

 

played a semi out door gig last night in a covered courtyard with a column in the middle of the stage area - SS was a couple feet behind me - I have taken to always traveling with my 1'x2' plastic bi-fold to reduce the variables of the venue - singer (on the other side of the column) wanted me to turn up but I already felt like I was blasting myself - realizing now that another option could be to turn the SS away from myself so I am not in the direct line of fire... audience comments were positive...

[garnermike]

As I have said before, based on using either the SS v.2 or v.3 at hundreds of gigs now, it takes a bit of a "leap of faith" if you are going to like and appreciate the SSv.3.

 

When you are sitting at your keys and sending sound through the v.3, you can't really hear what the audience in the room is hearing/experiencing. But I do know (believe) from all the audience and musician feedback I've ever gotten, and also from having others play my keys while I walked around venue confines, that the audience's audio experience is better, fuller and more embracing with the v.3.

[Aspen]

You mean something like his ? I used a yam DXR10 instead of a K10, SSV3 sat nicely on top, I had a much fuller sound with the Rhodes and Hammond. I set it up exactly like this, both keys into mixer, balanced outs to FOH, phones out split to SSV3 ins;, sub out of SSV3 to mono in of DXR. I also had the DXR slightly off center of the L+R of the SSV, to give the singers a better level, but I could still hear it clearly. This pic is from a gig 2 weeks ago.....

http://s17.postimg.org/gd8powg0v/11401534_710607152419036_829249398272654064_n.jpg

image hosting 30 mb

 

 

Exactly Aussie, great post. I also love the Yamaha stuff too, just bought one of their new mixers w/ dual FX so one can be used for instruments (IE.rev/chorus for guitars) and another for vocals (Hall).I will be using it for full band reinforcement with a single SS3 in small venues (this is I believe the #1 application in future as more small ensemble folks catch the CPS wave). Yamaha offers a great value and that particular one has a 3 channel input, each w/ a separate level control.

 

Interesting that you thought to use the headphone output for the SS3, that is another L/R output found on most mixers (maybe every mixer!) and while that HiZ low level signal is not usually hot enough to drive a PA amp or powered PA speaker to max SPL, the increased sensitivity of the SS3 input should work very well w/ a headphone output signal. I use it all the time driving my Mac HP miniTRS out to the SS3 for SS3 demos (Side Bar; even your cell phone headphone out drives a SS3 to full SPL...but don't try that w/ your K10 or DXR10!)

 

Bottom line, the SS3 can usually be your stand alone solution, but if you want to enhance it's 3D effect..and it sounds good to you...then go for it!

 

Let your ears be your guide, as evidenced by Aussie's redirecting the added spk for a better vocal monitor...so my suggested "rules" can be broken if YOU think it sounds and/or works better...just go for it!

 

This is supposed to be fun, and not all science! Brings to mind one of my favorite quotes ever by an amateur musician who was a professional scientist:

 

"If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music. I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music... I get most joy in life out of my violin." -Albert Einstein, 1929

 

 

[wineandkeyz]

Gig report - I did my fourth gig with the SSV3 this past Saturday -- an outdoor gig where we were the first of three bands. We were on a large covered mobile stage with no back wall and just a curtain behind us. In those situations, I use my two keyboard hard cases to make a pseudo back wall for myself. I lay one case flat on the floor as a base for the SSV3, then stand the other case behind it resting along its long edge as a reflecting surface. So far it works great!

 

As I mentioned, we were the first band to play. When the second band arrived, one of their members -- who also operates his own sound company -- walked over to the edge of the stage and listened very attentively for a while. When I glanced his way, he pointed to the SSV3 and asked "Is that yours?" When I nodded, he gave me a huge thumbs up, and said, "Wow! Sounds great!" As we were tearing down from our set, he brought their keyboard player over and said, "Did you hear this thing?" I did the best sales pitch I could manage while trying to clear off the stage, but might have made another convert.

[MathOfInsects]

I came as close as I'm probably going to come to running a full band through the SS3 yesterday. Keys/organ, guitar and vocals. Bass had his own amp, drummer played without mics (to give an idea of the size of the place).

 

The good news is that our 3/5 of the sound sources kept up fine with drums and bass. Guitar shined through, vocals could be heard, keys popped at times when I wanted them too. Bass player had a musician friend out front who said it was fine, and couldn't believe the sound was all coming from the SS3.

 

There was some distortion, especially in the first set. Vocals were the most obvious offender, though the organ farted and wheezed its way through the bandwidth whenever it accompanied vox. I trimmed gains and got a cleaner mix for the second set. (The issue could partially have been my little mixer, which wasn't really made to run a band through. If I'd known, I'd have brought my Onyx.) In order, guitar sounded best, along with pure synth/joysticky patches. Vox and organ battled for second place. It's usually mostly an organ gig, but I played a lot of the synth stuff this time because farting, and that was fun (for all).

 

So the good news is it can be done. For a smaller room and quieter music, it would have done the trick. For this size room and these players, I can't say I'd make it my go-to sound solution, though it's good to know it can be called on in a pinch. At any rate, it certainly got us through three hours of making the tattoos wiggle and bounce, and for that I'm grateful.

 

 

[spazzkey]

At any rate. it certainly got us through three hours of making the tattoos wiggle and bounce, and for that I'm grateful.

 

 

[HammondDave]

At any rate. it certainly got us through three hours of making the tattoos wiggle and bounce, and for that I'm grateful.

 

 

 

Did they Fart as well? (Sorry... I can't resist a fart joke)

 

 

[MathOfInsects]

It's not healthy to resist a fart joke. Sometimes it will just well up inside you, and if you try to hold it in, you are uncomfortable for the rest of the day. It's best, when you have a fart joke inside you, to just let it rip.