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Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back


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Oh, I don't doubt special guitar amp type speakers with switching amps (and supply) in smart plastic boxes can be nice and light.

 

I used qtx 12 speakers that weren't that heavy. They're in large 18mm thick chipped wood enclosures for over a decade and can do some power. Maybe not even as loud in every way as the space station ! In other ways probably, but I mean the amps I used are heavy, and I can't call the result of my preferences a light weight solution, except that I can lift the parts (one a pice) myself without too much trouble.

 

http://www.theover.org/Diary/Ldi19/HPIM0776b1m.JPG

 

And 12 inchers in a small enclosure aren't going to sound good, and the DSP most people use is not by far good enough to approximate the tempest inside small speakers, and so to correct for that effect.

 

T.

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Yeah, I could not believe how lightweight the Accugrooves were. Too bad not everyone uses them. How much more could it cost? When people are spending $400+ for a 40 pound plus subwoofer, seems that a SS4 with a 12 inch Neo speaker would not cost $400 more and may weigh just as much as an SS3.

 

I am sure that Aspen considered this when he designed the SS3.

 

Check this out Dave , you wouldn't believe what we can get in N.Z :) . I believe the Neo's are 10x more powerful and about 10x the price (at least , and hard to pin down a price) > http://dangerousmagnets.co.nz/

Brett

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Yeah, I could not believe how lightweight the Accugrooves were. Too bad not everyone uses them. How much more could it cost? When people are spending $400+ for a 40 pound plus subwoofer, seems that a SS4 with a 12 inch Neo speaker would not cost $400 more and may weigh just as much as an SS3.

 

I am sure that Aspen considered this when he designed the SS3.

 

Check this out Dave , you wouldn't believe what we can get in N.Z :) . I believe the Neo's are 10x more powerful and about 10x the price (at least , and hard to pin down a price) > http://dangerousmagnets.co.nz/

Brett

 

LOL! Thanks! I was just going to eat a subwoofer for dinner tonight. Guess I must settle for a tweeter.

'55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D

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Quick question, following my two gigs this weekend (the first with the SSv3).

 

The first gig was at small restaurant, and everything was fine and straightforward. The second was outside, at a local festival. Initially, I was just going through FOH, and using the monitors they had. Specifically, I had my CP4 and Hammond xk1C going into a small mixer, and then into the main mixer for FOH.

 

I noticed that my Hammond was considerably louder than the CP4. The sound guy suggested that we could control things better if I used my SS3 and he miked it. So that is what we did. If nothing else, it meant the sound was great on stage.

 

Here is my question. The sound guy miked the front speaker and had a separate mike pointed at the side speaker. Was this the right thing to do? It seems like this would lose the carefully engineered process of the SS3. But I could not tell how this sounded up front. People in the audience thought it sounded good, but that's not much reassurance.

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I'd try to blend in as best you can with just the SS and use the sub out to go to front of house in adition too. Or use your mixer to go to the SS and then FOH if it allows

An additional stereo signal. Mix it your way first.

Just something else to try. Seems like a lot of folks are getting away with out front

Of house mostly. But, I could be wrong. Every situation is different.

 

 

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For additional volume and bass response, all I do (and have done for hundreds of gigs with a SSv.2 and now the SSv.3) is simply go into the SS, then sublink it to a bass combo amp of at least 100 watts (small/medium venue) or 200 watts (larger venue). For outdoors or really big spaces (or playing with a truly loud band), I use the larger bass combo amp option and then go from its direct out into the band's PA or the FOH. In the latter cases, things have always sounded good to me, my audience spotters, and the sound reinforcement techies.

 

Feedback I've gotten from the times that I have had the front and side speakers mic'ed separately then sent to the FOH has not convinced me it is worth doing.

 

Oh, and as many times as I have set that sublinked bass combo amp on just heavy bass, I've disliked the sound I get. For as long as I can remember, I have set the dials on that supporting combo amp at half treble, half-mids, and two-thirds bass. Call me crazy..........

KB: Hammond SK1

Bass KB: Yamaha MX49

KB Amps: CPS SS3, linked to TurboSound IP300

Bass KB amp: Fender Rumble 500 combo

 

 

www.mikemickxer.com

www.reverbnation.com/mikemickxer

 

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No, garnermike... I am with you. This sub bass mania, is, well I guess i just called it a mania. Your settings make sense, versus all bass.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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Oh, and as many times as I have set that sublinked bass combo amp on just heavy bass, I've disliked the sound I get. For as long as I can remember, I have set the dials on that supporting combo amp at half treble, half-mids, and two-thirds bass. Call me crazy..........

 

thanks for sharing that - I'll have to play around with the mids and trebles on my AI-ten2 that now serves on occasion as my sub...

gig: hammond sk-1 73, neo vent, nord stage 2 76, ancona 34 accordion, cps space station v3

home: steinway m, 1950 hammond c2

 

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Depends Korg CX3 Roland G6 Fantom a not so good Tyros kurzweil pc88

I maybe playing with Blues CX3 fairly loudly

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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Review Update. Reasonably full house today, about 650 people (1400 seat venue, balcony empty, floor about 3/4 full). Piano guy complained that it was too loud at times, others said finally the keyboards were clear. A number in the crowd said the new sound was fabulous. "It sounded like a real Leslie." Stereo flute patch that I use for counter melody/color came through amazing.

 

The SS3 was my birthday gift from my wife. She really liked it. That was the true test. In other words my spending has not been cut off. :-)

 

I really did not think one SS3 would be enough for that huge room. With my powered sub, it was more than enough. Never broke 1:00 on the SS3 gain. I even took over for our bass payer tonight who had the audacity to go into labor. The SS3/sub handled both solid bass and XK3 with ease, as well as trumpet hits. I would not hesitate to use this in just about any venue. If I was in a high db club situation, I may want two stacked for headroom. I still might try the dual Neo Vent/ Dual SS3, but I will hold off until I really get comfortable with the SS3.

 

I am going to have to figure out how to make the sound guy happy. He freaked out at not being able to control me. I really don't want to lose this great sound with FOH speakers. Traditionally we are all in ear monitoring.

 

I am going to have to get creative to allow sound booth to control the SS3. Maybe a two channel wireless monitoring system?

JL

Hammond XK3, Yamaha PSR-s610, Leslie 3300, Neo Ventilator, Motion Sound Pro-145(fixed!), Yamaha Clubs & Subs, Hammond T-220

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great news, but why do you have to cater to a lessor musician so called Sound guy? Really? Can you bs him with jive feed, so he doesn't quite get enough of you to do any real damage?

I do not care for anyone treading on my scene, esp a sound man. Can I be arrested for saying that?

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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OK, had to write a post on how the SSv3 has changed my perceptions around keyboard amplification. Call me a fan boy, fine, I don't care

 

Revisiting My Thoughts On Keyboard Amplification

 

It's a different game now :)

 

nice write up - kind of nails it... tempted to link to some friend key players that have not heard mine yet, but then again, feel like I'm :deadhorse:

gig: hammond sk-1 73, neo vent, nord stage 2 76, ancona 34 accordion, cps space station v3

home: steinway m, 1950 hammond c2

 

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Would love to have one to try out for this little jazz gig in Studio City this Saturday.

 

it's now sunday night thereafter and no word on how the test run went - hmmm, speechless are we? :boing::2thu::boing:

:D looking forward to the full scoop Dave!

gig: hammond sk-1 73, neo vent, nord stage 2 76, ancona 34 accordion, cps space station v3

home: steinway m, 1950 hammond c2

 

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Yeah, I could not believe how lightweight the Accugrooves were. Too bad not everyone uses them. How much more could it cost? When people are spending $400+ for a 40 pound plus subwoofer, seems that a SS4 with a 12 inch Neo speaker would not cost $400 more and may weigh just as much as an SS3.

 

I am sure that Aspen considered this when he designed the SS3.

 

I think such SSv4 will be larger and heavier.

Not only they´d have to find a similar sounding neodym coax 12" driver, it can also be a larger side speaker would be necessary then.

While the 6.5" side speaker in the SSv3 projects full range relatively well, this must not urgently be the case for a larger side speaker.

Consequently some other solution might be necessary, p.ex. additional 2 HF drivers fireing in opposite direction out of phase and perfectly aligned w/ back and forth movement of the side speaker.

It would make the cab much more expensive I fear.

 

All in all, I think Aspen is happy his SSv3 rolled out of the doors the way it is and made so many friends meanwhile.

Why changing a winning product ?

I also don´t think it´s unacceptable to use a small subwoofer or small bass amp together w/ such a compact cab like the SSv3 is.

I personally prefer schlepping 2 smaller pieces over one larger/heavier one.

 

And,- not everyone here in the forum needs a sub, it seems.

 

I think the times of large backline are over in regards of amps/cabs on stage.

The really big jobs are in-ear anyway, so we need amps/speakers much more often for the small locations/gigs, jamsessions, band rehearsals and similar occasions.

 

A.C.

 

 

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I also don´t think it´s unacceptable to use a small subwoofer or small bass amp together w/ such a compact cab like the SSv3 is.

I personally prefer schlepping 2 smaller pieces over one larger/heavier one.

 

And,- not everyone here in the forum needs a sub, it seems.

 

I think the times of large backline are over in regards of amps/cabs on stage.

 

A.C.

 

 

I wonder if Aspen would consider developing a suitable sub for the SS3? There is a nice little fanbase developing for his product, who might be proud to own the "matching set"

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I also don´t think it´s unacceptable to use a small subwoofer or small bass amp together w/ such a compact cab like the SSv3 is.

I personally prefer schlepping 2 smaller pieces over one larger/heavier one.

 

And,- not everyone here in the forum needs a sub, it seems.

 

I think the times of large backline are over in regards of amps/cabs on stage.

 

A.C.

 

 

I wonder if Aspen would consider developing a suitable sub for the SS3? There is a nice little fanbase developing for his product, who might be proud to own the "matching set"

 

When I broached this subject with him in a previous post and offline he understandably wasn't thinking about that, and rather wanted to focus on the SS itself. Simply because the Behringer at 299 is hard to beat, and I think would cost him more than that to develop and market.

SpaceStation V3,

MoxF6,PX5S,Hammond-SK2,Artis7,Stage2-73,

KronosX-73,MS Pro145,Ventilator,OB DB1,Lester K

Toys: RIP died in the flood of 8/16 1930 Hammond AV, 1970s Leslie 145, 1974 Rhodes Stage

 

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I also don´t think it´s unacceptable to use a small subwoofer or small bass amp together w/ such a compact cab like the SSv3 is.

I personally prefer schlepping 2 smaller pieces over one larger/heavier one.

 

And,- not everyone here in the forum needs a sub, it seems.

 

I think the times of large backline are over in regards of amps/cabs on stage.

 

A.C.

 

 

I wonder if Aspen would consider developing a suitable sub for the SS3? There is a nice little fanbase developing for his product, who might be proud to own the "matching set"

 

Yes, and it will be a full 300 deg. Of low frequency nirvana!

 

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I thought subs were omnidirectional, making it 360 degrees of nirvana?

 

I am ambivalent on topic of subs; Bass is omni, but is placement on stage an issue nonetheless?

We say bass is omni, yet I wonder about where you put the sub(s)?

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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So my attempt to get KC gurus to poll on my narcissistic needs flopped, so I just called and added a b1200 to my order, because ...

 

... OT/related: my kids completed their run of Suessical - The Musical! this weekend (another 4 shows!). Parents, sister etc came down for the finale, after which we went for cocktails while the kids went to their cast party.

 

Topic of my 10th anniv last week came up - congrats all around until i noted my wife neglected to get me so much as a card. I really didn't care, whenever she gets me something I'm buying it, but a rare opportunity arose and I pounced like a cheshire cat!

 

"its ok, hon - the good news is I just ordered a SSv3 (I said keyboard amp actually) for you to give me - think i'll add a sub"

 

to which, in front of my parents and sis, she happily rejoiced on the gift with a "Happy Anniv Honey!".

 

lol. timing is everything, as you musical experts know.

The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it.
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I also don´t think it´s unacceptable to use a small subwoofer or small bass amp together w/ such a compact cab like the SSv3 is.

I personally prefer schlepping 2 smaller pieces over one larger/heavier one.

 

And,- not everyone here in the forum needs a sub, it seems.

 

I think the times of large backline are over in regards of amps/cabs on stage.

 

A.C.

 

 

I wonder if Aspen would consider developing a suitable sub for the SS3? There is a nice little fanbase developing for his product, who might be proud to own the "matching set"

 

When I broached this subject with him in a previous post and offline he understandably wasn't thinking about that, and rather wanted to focus on the SS itself. Simply because the Behringer at 299 is hard to beat, and I think would cost him more than that to develop and market.

 

That's right guys, why I very much appreciate your support and encouragement, why jump into a market already full of good options and made by companies MUCH larger than me that can make 1,000s at a time and so sell them for much less than I could. I would not be doing you a good service.

 

Anyway, as many have found...it's not that the SS3 has NO bass response, it is amazing good for it's size, power and price point. If you are using it for guitars, vocals and AP it really doesn't suffer much at all. Many SS3 owners are leaving the bass amp or sub home for the smaller gigs.

 

Below 100Hz is does begin to softly "roll off", but only at about 3 dB Per octave...so it is not a hard cliff! And, when coupled to a floor or corner the roll off is compensated by a boost in that area...which is why I often recommend placing it near a wall or corner, and always on the floor when run by itself...this is just practicing good audio physics.

 

Also, with regard to all the comments about subs vs. bass amps, and subs w/ hi pass filters before the SS3 vs. sub oput of the SS3, remember we have a "tri-amp" Front speaker...so we already HAVE an electronic xover (active hi pass filtering) for 2 of it's 3 Front components (and there is not much LF in the Side anyway). So the the typical very nasty IMD (inter modulation distortion) we are used to hearing from our KB and PA amps (this is clipping the amp in the LF Region on high Bass demand peaks, and then "modulating" that clipping waveform to the higher frequencies) can't happen in the SS3 mid and HF amps/components because they are protected by our tri-amp design.

 

In comparison to higher power PA and KB amps using a single amp and passive xover components for all it's transducers, when the high bass demand peaks, and thereby distorts, the amp...you will hear it in ALL the components because they share just one amp.

 

But our more elaborate Tri-amp approach eliminates that issue, and IMHO is a primary reason why the SS3 remains tight and clean at higher SPL levels.

 

Adding a sub or bass amp DOES add LF support...but it can be over done. A little sub goes a long way. As many can recall, oh maybe 80-90 pages ago when this was first discussed...I had always been using cheap 2nd hand HIFi subs with maybe 100 watts and a 10" speaker I bought at Swap meets for $25-50...and they WORKED JUST FINE!

 

Yes, I bought the B1200 for two reasons; folks here were buying (and liking) them and asking my opinion, and the were just $299 at the Sweetwater site! Upon receiving mine, I have tried it both ways (pre and post SS3)...and I do like it both ways. But one is not clearly "better" than the other, they both work well and each has some advantages. BTW, I did notice a drop in SS3 signal level when using it "pre" SS3...which of course I can compensate with my master level (but, hmmm, loss of gain is never desirable). However, at extreme SPL levels I can agree with the benefit of "pre"...a Hi pass filter can help the SS3 8" woofer stay a bit tighter. But really, for most small to medium gigs I doubt you will hear a difference by going "post", and it is an easier set up with just one sub cable (less cables is a plus...when stuff goes wrong w/ SS3 amps, it's always due to a faulty or imbalanced L&R cable!)

 

Then there is the issue of "fitting in" with the whole band. Are you the sole support for frequencies below 100Hz in the band, or do you have a bass player? Many here are the LHB player in the band. Obviously in that case by all means; YES, bring along a bass amp or a sub...they will love you for it. BUT if you already have a bass player...maybe not so much.

 

And, if you're doing the "single" gig, and so the solo KB w/ vocal in a small club, I seriously doubt you will ever need a sub.

 

Leland Sklar, a pal of mine and a world class bass player, told me this upon hearing the SS3 w/ and w/o a sub; "I hate subs". (Leland is not shy to comment...one of his most endearing features!)

 

But I understand his comment; too much "sub" @ 100Hz is not a good thing...and can overshadow the "above 100Hz information". A bass player wants a balanced LF response...and so their cabs are designed to be "flat" to 40Hz+. And if you add a sub, it's hard to keep it balanced...you need to be careful so as not to "boom the band".

 

Then also, this area under 100Hz is the bass players world...he carries the bottom for the band...and competing bottom makes for a mushy sounding band. The bass player is the star in the band for that region!

 

Happy band, happy life. And there is no Sub-stitute for a happy band!

Hammond A100 w/ 2x Leslie 122, Leslie 145 w/ combo pedal, Casio P5S, SS3, Groove Tubes SFX G5 cab + CPS/QSC RM4500 KB amp, 1955 Steinway 48" studio upright.
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Thanks for all of that Aston. I just added the B1200 to my order based on the seemingly 1000 pages above, as they sounded very knowlegeable and definitive :).

 

I will try both ways this Friday at rehearsal and see if I can discern a difference in this non-bass-centric keyboard set. I also ordered cables sufficient to wire KBD->Sub->SSv3. will see if I can discern any mid/hi signal loss to the SS. I have cables already to run the other way.

 

I suspect I will often decide to leave the sub at home, may even send it back. ... oh who am I kidding, I never send anything back ... if nothing else I can use the sub to keep my ssv3 off the ground in case of plumbing floods

 

I am quite excited, i have my FS KC550 script ready to load!

The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it.
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I am quite excited, i have my FS KC550 script ready to load!

 

Oh yeah, you'll get tons of offers for that now. :poke::D

 

SHHHH already!

 

somebody needs to sharpen up their chainsaw skills before fall pruning season, i'm sure.

 

I'll sweeten the pot and make it a combo deal with my JX-3P (with programmer module, yup). dudes here go nuts over real analog pieces of crap. they probably miss casserole thursday at mom's too.

The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it.
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