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#2498304 06/02/13 12:05 PM
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It seems that it can be very difficult to keep a thread on track in this forum, but in an attempt to do so, Im creating this VR-09 Hints and Tips thread. Im targeting this at owners of the VR-09 who have questions, or who have hints and tips, as well as people who are seriously considering a purchase. In doing so, my hopes are that the trolls, and others will ulterior motives and hidden agendas, will not disrupt productive discussion in this thread. So if you own a VR-09, or youre seriously thinking about one, welcome, and add this thread to your "watched list"!

The VR-09 has a lot of horsepower jammed into this little package but it has some quirks, some of which may be early life bugs, and others may simply be questionable design issues, and I will list the significant ones here up front, so there is no question about biases.. I will also note any fixes and/or work-arounds, as they come available. Here is the list of current issues that I am aware of:

- NOTES RETRIGGER WHEN SOUND/REGISTRATION IS CHANGED when notes are held, and the sound is changed the held or sustained notes will retrigger. NO SOLUTION AT THIS TIME, BUT TO WORK-AROUND THIS ISSUE, SIMPLY TO NOT HOLD NOTES OR SUSTAIN NOTES BEYOND THE POINT WHERE YOU SELECT A NEW SOUND.

- EXPRESSION PEDAL the expression pedal controls both parts of a split/layer and cannot be set to control only one part (secondary issue is that the pedal assignments are not stored in registrations) AT THIS TIME, THE MIDI SOLUTIONS CONTROLLER PEDAL CAN PROVIDE A WORKAROUND FOR PRIMARY ISSUE

- EFFECTS ISSUES/ORGAN LAYER currently when layering a secondary instrument with organ, the secondary instrument will go through the leslie effect if it is enabled. AT THIS TIME THERE IS NO SOLUTION, BUT USING SPLIT (RATHER THAN LAYER) DOES NOT EXHIBIT THE SAME PROBLEM

-SPLIT MODE LOWER INSTRUMENT EFFECTS when in split mode the lower instrument loses its original effects assignment, and it is now processed along with the upper part effects (and the live effect section). NO SOLUTION OR WORKAROUND IS AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME

- PERCUSSION - CHORUS/VIBRATO currently when using percussion the percussion will be affected by chorus/vibrato when turned on. This is not consistent with how a real Hammond works. NO SOLUTION OR WORK AROUND IS AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME.

- ORGAN MODE/MIDI VELOCITY when selecting an organ sound the VR-09 does not transmit midi velocity. CREATING A LAYERED REGISTRATION OF ORGAN PLUS ANY OTHER NON-ORGAN SOUND WILL ENABLE THE TRANSMISSION OF MIDI VELOCITY. TURNING THE VOLUME OF THE SECONDARY SOUND TO ZERO WILL ALLOW YOU HEAR ONLY ORGAN AND BE ABLE TO SEND MIDI VELOCITY TO AN EXTERNAL DEVICE.

If/when these issues are fully resolved I will identify them as FIXED. I will only add things to this list that I deem to be consequential, and that I believe are causing the VR-09 to not behave as it should. I wont add feature requests or like to haves to this list, if someone wants to start a separate post on this, youre welcome to do so.


Last edited by Craig MacDonald; 06/02/13 12:10 PM.
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HINTS AND TIPS

Here are some hints and tips gleaned from various VR-09 owners from the original VR-09 thread (I will add to this as I have a chance to browse the original thread for more tips):

WORKING WITH A MIDI CONTROLLER

Set the vr09 to mode 2 and set your Controller to channel 4 for straight control. If you want to do split manual mode set the vr to keyboard and Controller to channel 3 for lower or 4 for upper (thanks High Diving Act)

when the vr-09 is set to "keyboard" mode, the external midi controller can only control the lower manual. you have to make a split if you want to make produce a sound in this mode. If you don't make a split, there are no lower manual, thus the external controller does not make any sound. Note that you can use the exact same sound for both the upper and the lower part. Also, when an external controller is plugged into the midi in port and you make a split, the entire vr-09 keyboard is dedicated to the upper part and the entire external controller is dedicated to the lower part. I find that "mode 2" is more flexible, but it implies that you can quickly change the transmit channel of your external controller if you want to use splitted registrations and non-splitted registrations. (thanks Rien)

I shall add: when the vr-09 is set to "keyboard" mode, the external midi controller can only control the lower manual. you have to make a split if you want to make produce a sound in this mode. If you don't make a split, there are no lower manual, thus the external controller does not make any sound. Note that you can use the exact same sound for both the upper and the lower part. Also, when an external controller is plugged into the midi in port and you make a split, the entire vr-09 keyboard is dedicated to the upper part and the entire external controller is dedicated to the lower part. I find that "mode 2" is more flexible, but it implies that you can quickly change the transmit channel of your external controller if you want to use splitted registrations and non-splitted registrations (thanks Kevmo)

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ADDITIONAL RESOURCES FOR THE VR-09:



ROLAND BLOG

The Roland Blog for discussing the VR-09:

http://www.rolandus.com/blog/2013/05/13/v-combo-vr-09-made-for-live-playing/



EXTRA SOUNDS/EXPANSION

Roland has announced the AXIAL Site for sound expansions for their various synths. Information on this new initiative from Roland can be reviewed here:

http://www.rolandus.com/blog/2013/05/13/v-combo-vr-09-made-for-live-playing/

At this time, the VR-09 is not identified as a supported synth but Roland has said that this site will be updated to include the VR-09. Similarly, the process for download has not been identified yet. When this comes available we will post it here.

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Thanks Craig. Will keep an eye on the thread.


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What is the recommended path for using the VR-09 with a Ventilator? I am not familiar enough with the specs to know if it has a "hard pan" type feature to route just the organ through a separate output or if some kind of toggle would be required to switch the organ/Vent vs. other keyboard sounds going straight to the mix? I know Craig has commented that he used it with a Vent, but I don't remember seeing the details on how to best leverage this on the gig.

If I get a VR-09, I would intend on using it with a Vent and would love to be able to have an easy way to switch it between Vent organ and non-Vent synths/pianos. Not sure if both things can co-exist in a split or layer?

Thanks,
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Eric, there is no way to pan organs left and other sounds right so that you can use the ventilator on organ and not on the other sounds.. At this time all you can do is use the ventilators bypass for non-organ sounds. This won't work for splits and layers.

That said the VR-09 Leslie sim is pretty good, you might find you don't really need the ventilator (although I have to say that the vents overdrive is much better).

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Craig

How about global transpose? If registrations don't remember the current transpose but return to C. I have a big issue.

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Originally Posted By: Kevmo
Craig

How about global transpose? If registrations don't remember the current transpose but return to C. I have a big issue.


I would also like to get a better understanding of this one. My steady band tunes down -1 and I sometimes sit in with another band that does the same thing. Rather than relearning a million songs in a different key, I simply transpose -1 for the entire rig. I would hope the VR-09 can support this at some global utility level? If not, hopefully each saved registration (or whatever they are called) can be saved with custom transposition. Thanks!

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Originally Posted By: Craig MacDonald
Eric, there is no way to pan organs left and other sounds right so that you can use the ventilator on organ and not on the other sounds.. At this time all you can do is use the ventilators bypass for non-organ sounds. This won't work for splits and layers.

That said the VR-09 Leslie sim is pretty good, you might find you don't really need the ventilator (although I have to say that the vents overdrive is much better).



Thanks. Let me know how you patch in your Ventilator and it sounds like I may not be able to use mine. My Vent is mounted into an offstage rack with a custom snake and remote footswitch only for fast/slow and not bypass. I can't even remember how the Vent does bypass to be honest. It looks like I would just go with the VR-09 in stereo using the internal sim and skip the Vent if I don't have a way to assign the organ output to run through the Vent separate from the other sounds. Thanks!

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Originally Posted By: eric
My Vent is mounted into an offstage rack with a custom snake and remote footswitch only for fast/slow and not bypass. I can't even remember how the Vent does bypass to be honest


Bypass in the Vent is a hardware modification done to the Vent itself. halfway down this page is an explanation of how the effect is achieved
http://music.ashbysolutions.com/vent.htm#STEREO


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Transpose can be saved per registration. Alternately, the master tune goes up or down a half step. Unfortunately no master transpose.


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What brenner13 said re: no master transposing.......

And thanks, Craig, for starting this thread. The other 60+ page thread was getting too emotional, with too many subtexts to follow.

Last edited by garnermike; 06/02/13 11:23 PM.

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Ahh yes. Thanks Craig for collecting the data pasting into this thread.
It is strange there is no global transpose but in my opinion a non issue by saving to registration.


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Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
Originally Posted By: eric
My Vent is mounted into an offstage rack with a custom snake and remote footswitch only for fast/slow and not bypass. I can't even remember how the Vent does bypass to be honest


Bypass in the Vent is a hardware modification done to the Vent itself. halfway down this page is an explanation of how the effect is achieved
http://music.ashbysolutions.com/vent.htm#STEREO


I don't know what pedal is out there that does this but, a stereo A/B split would work also as long as it's not your intent to be playing 2 different voices at the same time.

Last edited by High Diving Act; 06/03/13 12:05 AM.

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Originally Posted By: High Diving Act
Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
Originally Posted By: eric
My Vent is mounted into an offstage rack with a custom snake and remote footswitch only for fast/slow and not bypass. I can't even remember how the Vent does bypass to be honest


Bypass in the Vent is a hardware modification done to the Vent itself. halfway down this page is an explanation of how the effect is achieved
http://music.ashbysolutions.com/vent.htm#STEREO


I don't know what pedal is out there that does this but, a stereo A/B split would work also as long as it's not your intent to be playing 2 different voices at the same time.


I have the Ashby mods in my Vent, but originally done to work with my NE3 rig a few years back and maybe it would serve the same purpose on the VR-09. For the past 2-3 years, I've used a dedicated output from my NS2 to the Vent for organ and I run stereo L/R from the NS2 for the non-organ part. I had some special Y cables for the Vent and I would need to figure out how that may work for the VR-09. Or just go commando and use the VR-09 sans Vent.

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Craig

I think this is an excellent idea, but why not also try get some kind of petition together of VR -09 owners of people who are interested and send a long email to Roland direct and try and get them to address all of the issues that frankly do need addressing. Forgetting all the bitching thats gone on the other site which doesn;t help.

There are serious drawbacks to some fucntins on this keyboard, but i think a little 'pressure; from customers might get some results., As someone said if you just sit back and wait nothing might happen.

do you think this is worth doing? I've out a few comments up on the Roland blog but I don't thik that getting to the right people to be honest. Need to aim direct to people who can ACT

I think this kind of 'people power' is ultimately going to work but it may take a bit of time!!

Thanks for all the work you've put into this keyboard, Roland owe you one!

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OK thanks to all for the bad news for us "cheaters"

So the best work around is save a songs worth of patches as a bank and transpose one bank for each transposed key used?

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Originally Posted By: High Diving Act
Ahh yes. Thanks Craig for collecting the data pasting into this thread.
It is strange there is no global transpose but in my opinion a non issue by saving to registration.

Kevmo/HDA,

There is a global transpose, it's just not in the menus it's right on the keyboard, (transpose button and the -/+), and once you transpose the key using the transpose button, it will maintain this transposed key and you can change from piano, to organ to synth sounds and back and forth a dozen times and it does not lose the transpose. The issue is that if/when you select a registration the VR-09 takes on whatever key the registration was saved in AND when you exit the registration it returns to normal 0 transposition.

As far as I am concerned, this is working perfectly and it's exactly how I would design it myself. This is one of those design quandries for which there is no right answer...

We want this easy transpose button on the control panel so we can change tuning on the fly, live. We also want the registrations to save unique transpose (for that song you just can't play in Ab or C#), but the question is what to do when you exit a registration.. should the VR-09 return to normal tuning or maintain the tuning that's in the registration?

Personally, I like the way it works.. I could see myself creating a piano registration that's in a key I find difficult to play and then when I exit the registration I want to go right back to normal tuning, so I can carry on playing my other songs in normal tuning, and I think that's probably what most people want..

You really should be able to accomplish what you're trying to do with the transpose, either by NOT using the registrations and just using the stock sounds, or simply saving multiple registrations with the transpose you want.. and you have 100 available registrations.. that should get you through a gig!

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Sounds like a good idea. "Petition" might be a tad strong...perhaps "end user functionality requests"?...hmmm a little wordy and too meek. How about, "Yo...gots to fix this, bee-otch". Well, "petition" might be better after all.


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Whoops, thanks for clarifying, Craig; the front panel transpose buttons ARE global.


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Brenner,

I'm just going to carry on doing what I'm doing.. I have made my Roland Rep aware my issues along with the staff of the store I purchased it in. I have noted my issues on the Roland Blog, and I continue to post my issues/suggestions on various different forums that I participate and moderate.

In the original VR-09 thread, forum members are getting all bent out of shape about issues that someone walking into a store and buying their first keyboard would simply NEVER notice. Even some people walking into a store to buy their second keyboard might not notice. In some cases only a seasoned expert, who was looking for a problem, would notice it (for example the Percussion going through the C/V, none of us owners noticed that!). The folks that are passing judgement on the VR-09 in the other thread simply do not represent the majority of the people who will be buying this $999 product. Only .001% of the keyboard players in the world would notice that the percussion goes through the C/V... Will Roland fix a problem that almost no one will notice, in a budget keyboard like this? Normally I would doubt it, but in this case I think they will because I think it's a mistake and they are concerned about the authenticity of their VR organ engine. However, will they fix these other bugs is the bigger question.

Those of us who are experienced with keyboard gear see all this functionality that's built in to our $3-4000 workstations and dedicated organ clones, and we get spoiled by it. We expect that same level of sound and functionality in everything new keyboard that comes out.. But the VR-09 has cut the price of an all-in-one keyboard (with a drawbar organ) in half, and we need to remember that it's going to come with some compromises. Whether or not we can live with those compromises is an individual thing.

I tend to think that the best way to influence Roland is to simply to carry on doing what I'm already doing which is to build our relationships with the Roland reps, and ensure that we're posting our concerns on the Roland Blog. When we do this we also need to be respectful in the way we provide this feedback and ensure that it's clear how our recommended changes can benefit the product, increase it's sales.. the kinds of things that will appeal to the company. We need to get Rolands attention in a productive way, and hopefully they will get the message. It would be great to have a Roland Rep participating here, and maybe I'll make that suggestion on the blog.

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Originally Posted By: brenner13
Whoops, thanks for clarifying, Craig; the front panel transpose buttons ARE global.


Brenner, happy to help..

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Just a quick note, I am no longer subscribing to the original VR-09 thread.. (I might look in from time to time, but it's too taxing trying to have a productive dicussion over there).. so if you have any questions or see anyone posting VR-09 questions on the original VR-09 thread, point them here. I would like to see this thread become the goto thread for VR-09 Q+A... (and it will be easier to keep the discussion on track here). Thanks.

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Global mean all. Regs are "user saved " &they are part of ALL .

If treated like ROLAND fantom they would repond to the global not reset to C
Originally Posted By: brenner13
Whoops, thanks for clarifying, Craig; the front panel transpose buttons ARE global.

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Kevmo, I can't speak to how the fantom worked, but personally I like the way the transpose is designed in the VR-09.. perhaps a true "global" transpose is the answer, and by that I mean one that overrides everything else. I suppose that could be implemented in the system menu, but it just makes me wonder how many transposes do we really need here.. I think the existing transpose functionality is perfect for my needs (but I recognize that others needs may be different!)

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The more I play it,.. the more I'm digging it. Just saying!! lol
Also gave me a good excuse to clean up the home studio.


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Craig, you have mentioned this before but not on this thread: One important feature I'd like to see with a possible OS update would be the ability to load/save one registration at a time to/from USB, rather than only all 100 spots as it is now.

I know you stated no "like to haves", but this is integral to the operation of the thing if one is to get registrations in place for a given set list for specific shows.

Last edited by brenner13; 06/03/13 03:05 PM. Reason: Finished my thought

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Brenner, yes I've mentioned this a couple of times on the other thread.. I think related to these "expansion sounds" and the Axial site.

It is odd that you can only save registration "sets" because if you have a sound that you want to share with someone, you can't! you can only send them your entire registration set.. but they probably don't want to overwrite all of your registrations on theirs. So the inability to save/load individual registrations is definately kind of dumb. I really think that the VR-09 was purposely "dumbed down" for it's initial release.. I think there is more feature/function to come here.

This is going to have to be fixed as soon as they come out with the Axial sounds for VR-09.. if they have 100 new synth registrations where are we going to put them? Are we going to take all the new classic synth sounds and overwrite all our personalized registrations? I don't think so.. Something has to give here..

I think they VR-09 needs a couple of changes..

1. The ability to load/save individual registrations to USB Stick.
2. The ability to insert and delete registrations (in which case the banks collapse and expand appropriately), basically allowing us to reorganize and re-order the banks
3. The Synth Editor ipad app needs a library feature for synth sounds. This would allow us to create hundreds of synth sounds and not have to save them in the limited registrations that are available to us.
4. I ability to read/load registrations from USB stick directly into memory, therefore increasing the number of registration banks available to us in real time.

I think that the ability to load/save individual registrations or ipad editor librarian functions are going to be required for the VR-09 to be able to take advantage of the Axial sounds. I happen to think that's why these sounds are not currently announced for the VR-09.

These sounds will require an OS update or editor update to be used with the VR-09 (BTW, nothing official, just my opinion).

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If Roland really wanted to do it right, they should:
1) Add a librarian function to the Editor
2) Add the ability to browse and download directly from Axial via the editor
3) Add a user area to Axial to allow users to upload and share individual registrations and banks.
4) And of course update the firmware to fix the gotcha's that can be fixed. They may not have allotted enough memory to change the firmware too much, so fixing some things may not be possible.

Last edited by Toano88; 06/03/13 04:11 PM.

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So, besides the "no previsions" typical answer from your Roland contacts, any news about the correction of the VR-09 bugs?

And about that Axial thing, will it include new PCM sounds like new E Pianos, Clavs and stuff or just new synthetic sounds, if/when available to the VR?


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