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Does the use of a Strat tremolo guarantee out of tune?


Mike Gug

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Originally posted by d:

Not to disrupt the OT of the thread but, heck, I often have to tune after just finger-bending a lot on some tunes.

 

& FWIW/ Gentleness is an often overlooked element of electric guitar playing. No matter what we may think, we often play harder than is necessary; it's a delicate machine that responds best when we play appropriately & let the electronics do the hard work.

Completely RIGHT ON!!! great comment and so so true, I have lightened my pick attack by at least 50% in the last couple of years.
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Despite all you hear and read about adjusting standard trems for stability, the basic problem is the inherently unstable design of the unit. The concept of string tension pulling on Trem spring tension to reach an equilibrium usually does not work reliably. The solution I've gone to on all of my Strats is to install a Tremsetter.

 

The Tremsetter is a tremolo stabilizer, which replaces the middle trem spring and installs easily. The Tremsetter operates like an adjustable shock absorber, which when properly adjusted, keeps the guitar in tune. The costs is ~$50 and are available from Hipshot Products (hipshotproducts.com). This provides the best of both a trem and fixed bridge guitar. The guitar bridge with the Tremsetter operates more like a fixed bridge and enhances both tone and sustain as well as the tuning stability of the guitar. I have installed them on all my trem guitars and they work great. The Tremsetter provides the best of both a trem and fixed bridge guitar. The guitar bridge with the Tremsetter operates more like a fixed bridge and enhances both tone and sustain as well as the tuning stability of the guitar. Also, with a Tremsetter, you adjust the bridge to float a little off the guitar body to allow both up tremming and down tremming (not over tightening trem springs to pull the bridge flush to the body which only allows down tremming)I have installed them on all my trem guitars and they work great. This is not meant to be an ad pitch as I have no link with Hipshot Projects and just like this product because it works.

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Originally posted by Lancer:

Despite all you hear and read about adjusting standard trems for stability, the basic problem is the inherently unstable design of the unit. The concept of string tension pulling on Trem spring tension to reach an equilibrium usually does not work reliably. The solution I've gone to on all of my Strats is to install a Tremsetter.

 

The Tremsetter is a tremolo stabilizer, which replaces the middle trem spring and installs easily. The Tremsetter operates like an adjustable shock absorber, which when properly adjusted, keeps the guitar in tune. The costs is ~$50 and are available from Hipshot Products (hipshotproducts.com). This provides the best of both a trem and fixed bridge guitar. The guitar bridge with the Tremsetter operates more like a fixed bridge and enhances both tone and sustain as well as the tuning stability of the guitar. I have installed them on all my trem guitars and they work great. The Tremsetter provides the best of both a trem and fixed bridge guitar. The guitar bridge with the Tremsetter operates more like a fixed bridge and enhances both tone and sustain as well as the tuning stability of the guitar. Also, with a Tremsetter, you adjust the bridge to float a little off the guitar body to allow both up tremming and down tremming (not over tightening trem springs to pull the bridge flush to the body which only allows down tremming)I have installed them on all my trem guitars and they work great. This is not meant to be an ad pitch as I have no link with Hipshot Projects and just like this product because it works.

I'll have to look more into this, because I'm not able to comprehend why the guitar can stay in tune more than without it. I've seen pics, but haven't read up on it.

Mikegug

 

www.facebook.com/theresistancemusic

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In my opinion, the Tremsetter works because it is a compression spring which works like an adjustable shock absorber. You make small adjustments to get it to work with your particular guitar setup. The typical trem springs are merely expansion springs with no adjustment other than tightening or loosening them to adjust the amount of pull. I spoke with Dave, the inventor of the Tremsetter, and he indicated he designed it based on the stablizers on pedal steel guitars, which work well.
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Mike- Lancer's right, the Hipshot Tremsetter is a very good idea; I've installed and used Tremsetters before, and they really are all they're cracked up to be, they're quite excellent, as long as everything else is also properly set-up and in good condition.

 

The thing is, your trem is relying on the strings pulling one way, and the trem-springs pulling the other way, in a sort of tug-of-war that is supposed to be balanced with a specific zero-point being where the strings are in tune and at pitch.

 

Obviously, the strings are gonna be susceptible to temperature, binding in the nut-slots, retainer-trees, and bridge-saddles, stretching, and wear against the frets, so that their amount of pulling-tension is going to vary. This will move that balanced zero-point back and forth, changing the overall tuning, as some strings change in pitch more than others, further unbalancing that equilibrium.

 

Add to that friction and wear at the fulcrum-points, and you can see that we're really asking a lot from the trem and strings here, even with all the best hardware and set-up and lube and everything...

 

* The Hipshot Tremsetter works by effectively pulling AND pushing- both ways- to maintain a more reliable, consistent zero-point. (Well, it resists both down-trem pulling, and up-trem pushing, with a preset, adjustable zero-point.) It becomes the boss and arbitrator between the strings and springs. *

 

It works best if the bridge is set-up to be floating, although it doesn't need too much up-trem range, and it will work with the trem-bridge flat against the body, as well. (It's just kinda wasted that way.)

 

The only drawback- and it might not be a drawback at all for some players- is that a very subtle stop-point is perceivable in the trem's travel from flat to neutral to sharp; not much, but there. You wouldn't hear it as much as you'd feel it through the trem-arm as your wavering and warbling about. Very, very easy to live with, though. Just so you know what to expect there.

 

In addition to helping maintain tuning stability, the guitar will sound noticebly beefier and more solid, almost as if it's got a fixed-bridge hardtail; and when playing oblique-bends (where you hold a note on one string, while bending another), it doesn't pull the trem forward and the unbent-note stays in tune, again acting more like a hardtail.

 

As long as the other issues are addressed- set-up, nut-slots, proper stringing and tuning, a little lube and TLC- it'll work like a champ!

 

By the way, exactly what sort of trem is on your Squier? How many screws does it mount and pivot on? Two? Six?

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Wow, cool info. I read up on a bit of history some time ago, the tuning system that we have now is sort of the least obnoxious of several choices. The G is always a little off from its `true` or `just` tuning, that note was sacrificed rather than two or more others. This difference is commonly referred to as `Archimedes` comma`, after the Greek mathemetician. There`s nothing you can do about it, though some modern compositions have sought to exploit the little schisms inherent in tempered tuning-that`s where `microtonality` comes from. Anyway personally I find those microtuners a pain in the neck, I try not to use them if I can avoid it. The `floating bridge problem` is also difficult to get around. I have one hardtail guitar at the moment and I believe my next one will also be. But I wouldn`t entirely give up the whammy, no way.

Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

 

Skipsounds on Soundclick:

www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491

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Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

Originally posted by Billster:

There's a lot of jokes to be made about G strings. Personally, I never wear such a thing. Strictly boxers or briefs :D

Which is precisely why I never brought this topic up before. But I thought it was going to be Zan that brought up the "I never wear a G String" thing. Oh well, can't always be right! :D

 

 

Caev:

 

I'd never thought about it as an inherent problem. Ok, cool. I don't mind as long as it's not just me. Thanks :thu:

i was thinking it , if that helps. :D
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Mike,

I agree with Caevan's enhanced comments about the Tremsetter. Although Caevan mentioned one potential "con" point I can honestly tell you that I've never really either felt or heard any negatives with the Tremsetter. But I have felt a lot of warbling and intonation issues with standard trems without the Tremsetter.

 

I would like to expand upon the other good point Caevan mentioned which I touched upon in my prior reply to you. I mentioned that the Tremsetter gives you the best of both a fixed bridge and trem unit by allowing both up and down tremming but also stability. With the Tremsetter, the bridge will feel more solid and as such your tone, sustain and overall stability will improve. Because the bridge is more solid, you will also be able to bend note higher with less effort as, unlike a standard trem, the bridge will not sag with string bending.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Tremsetters definately help.

 

If your guitar has a standard nut you could replace it with a Fender LSR nut. this helps the strigs tighten and slacken uniformly from the bridge to the tuners as the nut has little bearings that hold the string and allow movement.

 

It could be a problem with your tuners, you could replace those with locking sperzels.

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