Does the use of a Strat tremolo guarantee out of tune?

[Mike Gug]

On my Squire Strat, I'm instantly having to tune up for the next song when I use my tremolo. No big dive bombs or anything. Medium to strong pushes for good effect. Is having to tune up after tremolo standard or just Squire?

[Billster]

There's some setup tricks you can use to minimize the problems.

 

Clamp the springs down tight in the back so that the bridge rests on the body (i.e. you can't pull up on the bridge). This gives you a stable return point.

 

Eric Johnson wraps his strings toward the top of the tuner post and doesn't use string trees at the headstock. He feels that the shallower angle from nut to tuning post helps reduce binding at the nut.

 

Speaking of which, make sure the nut slots are free of nicks and burrs that may catch the strings. Some folks use a little graphite or specialty lubes (yes, "nut sauce" ) to keep things going smooth.

[Gifthorse]

You should experiment feeling where the bar was before you used it and try to nurse it back to that point gently after you use it in a song.

 

EVH used to discuss this back before he was using floyds. You have to know the bar and what it does when you use it. If you go down in pitch with it (not quite a divebomb), you should take note of which strings are effected. Like maybe your G string goes sharp when you bring it back, so you may want to lightly tug it when you bring it back to the nuetral position.

 

I have had luck always controlling the bar no matter where it is. Never stop letting your hand control it. Don't push it and then let it come back itself. Nurse it back to the proper position. Also having a custom nut put on that minimizes friction might help.

[Pappy P]

I user 10s on my squire strat. I always use the Fender Bullets. As long as I don't over do it, I never go out of tune.

 

What Strings are you using?

[Mike Gug]

Originally posted by Pappadopalus:

I user 10s on my squire strat. I always use the Fender Bullets. As long as I don't over do it, I never go out of tune.

 

What Strings are you using?

I use 10's, but various makers of late. I did like the Bullets in there a lot, but have recently fell in love DR Pure Blues 10's.

 

I'm not certain I'm in desperate need of a tremolo anyway, so I may bust out the Strat's PUP's for sale (already sold them: neck and middle Fender Noiseless) and shelve the Strat for now.

[Bbach1]

That's just one of the things that I hate about trems. Some will claim they stay in tune with em, but I don't find that to be true for me. I end up just taking the wammy bar off and forgetting about the trem. I do find that some nut sauce does help a little.

I do want to get a guitar with a bigsby one day though, for those light trem needs. Gretsch, here I come.

[BluesWithoutBlame]

You have to experiment. Some like to "block" it but I like using it both directions.

 

I had a problem EVERY time I did any tremolo with the G string going out on me.

 

I adjusted many times on the screws holding the springs to the trem, AND using nut oil on the strings at the bridge and nut.

 

I can play, and dive bomb pretty well now with only a slight tune up once in a while.

 

It may seem impossible, but it really isn't that bad once you adjust and the added benefit, you learn a lot more about your setup!

[Bluesape]

Originally posted by Bbach of Bismarck:

That's just one of the things that I hate about trems. Some will claim they stay in tune with em, but I don't find that to be true for me. I end up just taking the wammy bar off and forgetting about the trem. I do find that some nut sauce does help a little.

I do want to get a guitar with a bigsby one day though, for those light trem needs. Gretsch, here I come.

Bigsbys look great, but i have found the one on my ES-355 to go out all the time, and changing http://www.websmileys.com/sm/mad/boese088.gifstrings is a bitch also.

[GtrWiz]

At the risk of souding like a broken record...Check out this clip of Carl Verheyen explaining his strat set-up.

 

http://www.gitaarnet.nl/video/carlverheyen/carlverheyen-setup-hoog.ram

 

also, Billster, you can get a teflon lube at radio shack, it's basically the same as nut sauce but is only 4-5 bucks. It doesn't have the nifty name tho...

[GtrWiz]

OK that link didn't work, try this one

 

http://www.gitaarnet.nl/magazine/workshops/carlverheyen/carlverheyen.php3

 

scroll down the page until you see the one on strat set up

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by Bbach of Bismarck:

That's just one of the things that I hate about trems. Some will claim they stay in tune with em, but I don't find that to be true for me. I end up just taking the wammy bar off and forgetting about the trem. I do find that some nut sauce does help a little.

I do want to get a guitar with a bigsby one day though, for those light trem needs. Gretsch, here I come.

Bbach, I have owned 5 gretch and 2 Gibsons with Bigsby's over the years and have never had even one be good on staying in tune! I love the way they look but man oh man what a pain they are. On my Country Gentleman no matter if I was using the darn thing or not I had to pop the arm all the time to try to get it back in some sort of tune..that gets old fast!

[Darcy H]

I wasn't sure what was doing it so I fixed everything, went with Sperzel tuners (no string T required), Graphtec saddles, polished the edge where the string comes over the metal into the bridge, graphite in the nut slots..... I use D'Addario 10's, keep my tremolo floating (about a c-hair off the wood) and I'm quite aggressive with the tremolo. I can go snaky with it and it'll never go out of tune. I'm not really one for moderation as I did all the above fixes pretty much the same time, so I'm not sure which one had the most effect.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by BluesWithoutBlame:

I had a problem EVERY time I did any tremolo with the G string going out on me.

Whatever guitar I use, I always have problems with the G string's machine head. And I don't mean when using a tremolo, I mean "in general"

 

If a machine head will start to show its age, you can bet your life it'll be the G string one. It's always the first to lose it's strength, and it's not as if I change tunings every five minutes either.

 

Does that happen to everyone else or is it just me? If it happens to everyone else, why does it happen? Is it something about G strings themselves? I use plain ones.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Maintenance and set-up tweaks and tricks and lube cited above are all very good points; and what flagshipmile relates concerning EVH's advice and always controlling the whammy is invaluable.

 

Always pull back to pitch, just mute the strings if you don't want to "play" the return up in pitch out loud; never just push it down and let it bounce back, it'll usually return out of tune, some strings sharp, some flat, and each changing the balance of the whole six of 'em. Conversely, if you uptrem, pulling up in pitch, let it back under the guidance of your hand, under just a smidgeon of tension countering that of the strings.

 

In either case- pressing down or pulling up in pitch- the "stored slack" behind the nut, wrapped around the tuner-posts, between the bridge-saddles and the inertia-block (or whatever tail-end string anchoring-point your particular whammy employs) will shift unevenly and inconsistantly enough to cause tuning changes. You need to pull the strings back to a nearly consistant "normal" zero-point. If there's a problem string that often goes sharp when whammying, anticipate it and give that string a little tug with your picking-hand finger.

 

All of the above has worked for me!

 

Vince-

 

Yeah, I've noted that the "G-String" is the "Devil-String", concerning intonation, playability, unexpected breakage, tuners going bad, etc. It's the problem-child of the six-string/guitar-scaled fretted instrument.

 

The guitar's "G" string is just at a cosmic cross-over point concerning the combined attributes of scale-length, string-gauge, tuning-pitch and tension, and intonation and temperament. Seriously. There are always gonna be trade-offs and gremlins on the 3rd-string in more or less standard-tuning when gauge and type (plain, round-wound, flat-wound, etc.) are decided upon. Above and below that criss-cross of number-crunching the performance and behavior of the strings are generally much more convenient. That's just how it is, all you can do is choose the best for the given instrument, playing-style, and player, and make the best of it. (On one LP I use a plain-3rd for a "G" in Standard Tuning/Standard Pitch, on another I use a wound-3rd for an "F#" in Open-D Tuning/Standard Pitch. I love 'em both.)

[Guitar55]

Originally posted by Billster:

..Eric Johnson wraps his strings toward the top of the tuner post and doesn't use string trees at the headstock. He feels that the shallower angle from nut to tuning post helps reduce binding at the nut.

.....

Doesn't he also use staggered tuning post heights to compenstae for lack of strinmg trees?

[Caevan O’Shite]

Originally posted by Guitar55:

Doesn't he also use staggered tuning post heights to compenstae for lack of strinmg trees?

On his new sig-model Strats, yeah. On the vintage ones, I believe that he does the tweaks and tricks Bill described.

[Billster]

Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

Does that happen to everyone else or is it just me? If it happens to everyone else, why does it happen? Is it something about G strings themselves? I use plain ones.

There's a lot of jokes to be made about G strings. Personally, I never wear such a thing. Strictly boxers or briefs

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Billster:

There's a lot of jokes to be made about G strings. Personally, I never wear such a thing. Strictly boxers or briefs

Which is precisely why I never brought this topic up before. But I thought it was going to be Zan that brought up the "I never wear a G String" thing. Oh well, can't always be right!

 

 

Caev:

 

I'd never thought about it as an inherent problem. Ok, cool. I don't mind as long as it's not just me. Thanks

[Caevan O’Shite]

I remember saying something about one annoyance or another concerning the 3rd-string to a wonderful luthier and violin maker named Eric Aceto years ago; abruptly, mock dramatically, he whirled around all round-eyed and grim faced and declared, "Aaaaah, the Devil-String!!"

 

Oddly enough, it's the 3rd-string tuner that crapped out on me on my beautiful, battered old Yairi. And I've heard a lot of complaints about 3rd-strings breaking most often on flat-tops, although the light core- and wrap-wire probably has a lot to do with that, particularly if it's right at the bridge-saddle, or right at the edge of the nut-slot, where they repeatedly break.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by O'Shite Christmas:

my beautiful, battered old Yairi.

Yairis are really good guitars. I remember that the craftmanship was quite impressive.

 

I have one on my (very long term) shopping list!

[Gifthorse]

The only whammy I have ever been able to keep in tune was my old Floyd Rose (Kahler Steeler).

 

So many factors play into it. Any floyd styled bar will work but only the really good ones will last longer than a couple months for a serious whammy lord. The fulcrum points get burrs in them, they wear out, the screws they rest on wear out. The end result is a bridge that won't stay in tune. Thats why the Kahler Steeler was such a huge deal.

 

The other bars I have had are, the Kahler Spyder (junk), Schecter Tremlock (junk), Schaller Floyd Rose (good for 6 weeks), Fender standard (Junk, but it was on a cbs Strat), Kahler Flyer--TOTAL CRAP.

 

There are few bars I would consider for a guitar at this juncture. I have played a G&L guitar with a nice, more classic styled bridge that actually stayed in tune.

 

Floyd Rose styled bridges are a pain in the ass to tune and keep in tune, but if you have a good one and you stretch the strings out, it WILL NOT go out no matter what you do. You will often break a string before you can put it out. The problem with them for me is that they are so sensitive. When you play rythm sometimes your picking on the low strings may effect the rest of the chord because everything effects everything else with a whammy. This bugs me but it is just something to adapt to in order to have a whammy.

 

Also, fixed bridge guitars will always have more sustain and balls.

[Dr. Ellwood]

They always get in my way! they are just another distraction to me.

[Mike Gug]

Yeah, I'm considering just continuing to work around the need for it.

[Eric Iverson]

I wonder how Allan Holdsworth approaches it. He never seems to have tuning problems.

[Eric Iverson]

OK, my bad - he's not playing Stratocasters!

[Caevan O’Shite]

Originally posted by ellwood:

They always get in my way! they are just another distraction to me.

Oh, man, I love 'em, once you've got a good stable set-up that will stay in tune- at least reasonably...

 

I played a floating-whammy axe for years, it was my sole electric, and then I made the move to a pair of Les Pauls (no whammies of any kind). I had to have something completely different, for a change, and a Les Paul seemed like a good, nearly polar-opposite, switch from a "Super-Strat" with active EMG's and everything. So, it's been the two Les Pauls for the better part of a decade now.

 

But more and more I really miss the whammy...

 

Love it for subtle warble on chords, or deliberately affecting the intonation in very subtle ways when playing single-note lines, making it sound to my ear like classic Miles Davis...

 

And, the not-so-subtle stuff is a lot of fun, as well! WHHHYYYYRRRRRRHHHHGGGGGHHHHHlllllthmphtd-clnc...

[Eric VB]

All I know is that back in the early '80s the guy I knew with a whammy bar swore by his locked nuts. Er, the thing that locks the strings down at the nuts. Little fine tuners down at the bridge. He never pulled back on his bar, either, because he was afraid of breaking strings. This is probably all passe now. It looks like Flagshipmile has the goods.

 

Coz Canler from The Romantics gets a dive from his LP by bending the neck. Gives me the willies everytime I see him do that.

 

The pitch-changer effect on multi-FX pedals aren't nearly as fun, and with crappy foot pedal response they are just plain annoying.

[D_dup3]

Not to disrupt the OT of the thread but, heck, I often have to tune after just finger-bending a lot on some tunes.

 

& FWIW/ Gentleness is an often overlooked element of electric guitar playing. No matter what we may think, we often play harder than is necessary; it's a delicate machine that responds best when we play appropriately & let the electronics do the hard work.

[Mike Gug]

Originally posted by d:

Not to disrupt the OT of the thread but, heck, I often have to tune after just finger-bending a lot on some tunes.

 

& FWIW/ Gentleness is an often overlooked element of electric guitar playing. No matter what we may think, we often play harder than is necessary; it's a delicate machine that responds best when we play appropriately & let the electronics do the hard work.

Try telling my brain that. That's like trying to let the loft of a golf club do the work and while trying not to swing out of your shoes.

[Billster]

Originally posted by Eric Iverson:

I wonder how Allan Holdsworth approaches it. He never seems to have tuning problems.

Originally posted by Eric Iverson:

OK, my bad - he's not playing Stratocasters!

Well, he used to use Strats, but he hated them. Ironically, that was during what some consider his best period, playing with Bruford and Tony Williams in the late 70's.

 

Kind of reinforces D's point about treating the instrument with a little respect. If the instrument is not exactly what you feel comfortable with, you can play with a certain freedom because your expectations are not for perfection.