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routing a P-90 cavity for a humbucker sized PU??


Bejeeber

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OK, no one in their right mind would want to butcher a guitar with shweeeet P-90s by routing it to fit humbucker sized PUs in.

 

But for sometghing cheep that I could convert to a fretless, I'm considering one of the guitars like this that Miroslav pointed out in an earlier thread .

 

 

http://www.rondomusic.net/photos/electric/harm1semihcp901.jpg

Agile Harm 1

 

The thing is that if I liked the guitar enough I might eventually want to put a Sustainer in the neck slot, and those sustainers don't come in a P-90 size.

 

So those of you in the know - would it be a very big expensive job from yer average repair dude to change from P-90 to humbucky?

 

Heck, would it even be possible on this type of guitar body?

Just a pinch between the geek and chum

 

 

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Yes, it would be expensive. (Expensive being a relative term...) But if you are going to go with a fretless guitar, try it out first, before you spend a lot of money on the gear.

 

Personally, I doubt that anyone is going to play fretless guitar with accurate enough intonation to not sound like a dying cat being run over by a freight train.

 

I have done a lot of recording of various players of all stripes using fretless instruments (basess, cellos, violins, violas, etc...) and I find that I end up replacing most all if the work with other tracks. The intonation, or lack thereof, is just horrible. And trying to combine these parts with instruments that are in tune only makes things worse.

 

Given the time that it takes a violin student to get to symphony orchestra quality playing, I question weither any guitarist is going to put in the hours of dedicated practice that it takes to make this concept a reality in any but the most superficial way. But if you think that you have got the dedication, go for it. Just don't spend a lot of cash on the setup until you know that you've got something that you want and that you will use. (This comes from a guy with several electric 12 strings, a baratone guitar, a 5 string bass, a 3/4 sized guitar, a lap steel, and a keyboard...all of which sit around as basically unused curiosities that were 'cool' when I thought that I might want them... so take what I'm saying as a cautionary tale, not an attempt to trash your dream.)

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:

Yes, it would be expensive. (Expensive being a relative term...) But if you are going to go with a fretless guitar, try it out first, before you spend a lot of money on the gear.

Maybe one could save a couple of bucks by choosing a guitar that had a large scratchplate: the luthier wouldn't have to do a really neat job because it'd all be under the scratchplate. Maybe you could even use the one in the picture, as long as you remade the scratchplate.

 

But yeah, that's really good advice. Before getting too carried away, try and see whether you like fretless guitar or not.

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Here it is (with a slightly different pickguard):

 

http://www.rondomusic.net/photos/electric/harm3semibk1a.jpg

 

They also have it in blue and cherry red:

 

Agileb - Harm 3 guitar

 

Heck...they even have it with single coil PUs (though it is a solid body):

 

http://www.rondomusic.net/photos/electric/harm2solid6lpb1a.jpg

 

Agile - Harm 2 w/single coil PUs

 

 

And then if you want a solid body with arched top and 3 regular sized HBs:

 

http://www.rondomusic.net/photos/electric/harm3solidhc1a.jpg

 

Agile - Harm 3 arched top

 

 

Decisions...decisions...decisions... :D

 

 

Now what I would like to see from them, is the Cherry Sunburst Harm 1 semi-hollow body, with only two of the chrome mini-buckers...the long-pointed pickguard...AND...some nice in-laid fretmarkers.

 

I would buy that in a heartbeat!!! :cool:

miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

 

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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Given the dimensional differences between the P-90 and the humbucker, I wouldn't even bother trying to convert from the P-90 to a humbucker, at all. The P-90 is wider (side-to-side, think E-to-E strings) than a humbucker, and narrower (front-to-back, think neck-to-bridge). You'd wind up with visible filled cavities on either side of the humbucker's mounting-bezel. Ugly, or very expensive if the luthier is expected to make it seemingly invisible (faking some wood-grain, getting the finish perfect, etc.).

 

If they have some humbucking models, and that's the guitar you want, go with one of them.

 

(Buying a new guitar for a project which will immediately void the guitar's warranty doesn't make a lot of sense to me, either... )

 

Better yet... got a Strat-styled axe that could be a candidate for a replacement neck?

 

You could always seek out a super-cheap deal on a used '80s or '90s Ibanez with dual humbuckers or a Hum-sing-Hum arrangement. That'd probably make an excellent candidate...

 

I also think that a Fendery 25-&-1/2" scale-length would be better for you to try to intonate sans frets than a Gibsony 24-&-3/4" scale-length. And many of those "super strat" axes had fairly flat fretboard-radii, too, also good for fretless playing.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Good advice everyone - thanks.

 

Yeah sounds like I should just get a guitar with humbucksters, especially since I could always plop in one the Seymour Duncan etc. P-90 type pickups that fit in a Humbuckage slot.

 

A few more details about my intentions:

 

The fretless guitar would be strictly for melodic use, and a main reason for even going there for me is that I need to get into more of the east indian classical music style bending/glissandi stylings that I'm currently doing with conventional fretted string bending or slide. If I can intonate with frikkin string bending I should be able to learn to do it with a fretless. Er that's my current theory at least, and I'm going to be more into the slowww, hypnotic approach than the "listen to my speed chops dude" routine.

 

I'm also commited to the 24 3/4" scale length as my standard now, as I somehow resonate better with it as a melodic player than the Fender type 25 1/2".

 

I suppose I could try a Warmouth 24 3/4" bolt on neck on my Strat before I sell it, but there are other things about the Gibson style set up that are more suited for my playing tendencies. too bad, because yeah a bolt on definitely would've been a good, less risky way to test the fretless concept.

 

Maybe I'll end up finding an Agile all mahogany Les Paul model for $199 that I can put in harm's way for this crazy tinkering....

Just a pinch between the geek and chum

 

 

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Originally posted by Bejeeber:

...If I can intonate with frikkin string bending I should be able to learn to do it with a fretless. ....

Did you consider a scalloped neck, or won't that do what you're after? I only suggest it because the frets get you back in tune if you 'loose it'. Not much different than the bending that you are doing now, except that you push straight down instead of side to side.

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:

Did you consider a scalloped neck, or won't that do what you're after? I only suggest it because the frets get you back in tune if you 'loose it'. Not much different than the bending that you are doing now, except that you push straight down instead of side to side.

 

Bill

I do remember hearing John McLaughlin using the scalloped fretboard to good effect with Shakti, but the sort of bends I'm thinking of actually include perfect 4th intervals and wider even, and that's where the string bending fails me - especially on the high E - ouch!

 

Come to think of it that guitar you're holding in your avatar actually looks like it could be a nice model for some fretless Indian twanging!!

 

(And hey Bill, if you ever do consider selling your ES-125 to me, don't worry, I wouldn't go yanking frets out of a vintage beauty like that!) :D

Just a pinch between the geek and chum

 

 

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Originally posted by Bejeeber:

Come to think of it that guitar you're holding in your avatar actually looks like it could be a nice model for some fretless Indian twanging!!

 

(And hey Bill, if you ever do consider selling your ES-125 to me, don't worry, I wouldn't go yanking frets out of a vintage beauty like that!) :D

Isn't that a cool Martin? I often wish that I had bought it, but I can't justify a new axe. I'm thinking about selling off some of the older ones that I just don't use since I left the studio. Like the 125, and the J160e, the DuoSonic, a few of the others. Just taking up space here now.

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Originally posted by Mudcat:

I REALLY like the looks of this one! :thu:

 

http://www.rondomusic.net/photos/electric/harm3semihc5a.jpg

If they come out with a 12-string version i just might bite!

We have your model right here sir:

http://www.rondomusic.net/photos/electric/harm3semibk125a.jpg

Harm 3 12 string

Man these things really do look nice don't they?

Just a pinch between the geek and chum

 

 

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Originally posted by Bejeeber:

Originally posted by miroslav:

 

And then if you want a solid body with arched top and 3 regular sized HBs:

 

http://www.rondomusic.net/photos/electric/harm3solidhc1a.jpg

 

Agile - Harm 3 arched top

 

 

That would be a solution right there even if it does have too many pickups crammed in there...but wait, um....where's the pickup selector on that guitar??

Just a pinch between the geek and chum

 

 

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Originally posted by CaevanO'Shite:

Given the dimensional differences between the P-90 and the humbucker... You'd wind up with visible filled cavities on either side of the humbucker's mounting-bezel. Ugly, or very expensive if the luthier is expected to make it seemingly invisible (faking some wood-grain, getting the finish perfect, etc.).

Yeah, that's why I was talking about scratchplates.

 

If the work is to be covered by the scratchplate, the luthier's job is made that much easier. :) But yeah... if there's a guitar out there that already has the right pickups on it, it's better to go for that one.

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OK...I was playing around with Photoshop...and this is my rendition of the Agile Harm 1 that I would buy in a heartbeat (the original is on the right):

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/miroslavl/harm1_customized.jpghttp://www.rondomusic.net/photos/electric/harm1semifgp901.jpg

 

 

I sent in my customized version to Rondo to see if they will go for it! :thu:

miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

 

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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Just got a reply back from the Rondo Music owner:

 

Thanks for the input!

It's always good to hear from old customers.

 

I think your suggestions are all good. The fret markers should make the guitar much more playable for a wider group of people. But I still

think we should keep the current Harm as well and we can see which does better.

 

The soonest I could have something would be mid to end of 2006.

I will start running some ideas past production.

 

Kurt

:thu:

 

Oh boy...looks like I'll be buyin' another Agile this summer/fall!!! :cool:

miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

 

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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