The best guitar players? A rant and query

[Flower of evil]

Being in the business, albeit a tube amp guru who tended to hide when the discussions started up, I have had something slithering around in my mind for years now.

 

I was recently wading through various peoples opinions of who the top 20, 50, 100, whatever best guitar players of all time were / are. This is not my own list, (like you need another list, right?) but rather, how to critique and make a judgment of your own. Just possibly achieving a little self realization as well as, maybe, a little bit better appreciation of the phenomenal guitarists we have been graced with over the years.

 

First and foremost, one needs to make a determination of ones own critique abilities. Do you feel X deserves to be on the top list because you have consistently enjoyed his licks and riffs? If so, you should consider disqualifying yourself or at the least, your choice.

 

The reason for this is simple. You enjoyed it. You have a preference. Each person has, within their mind, certain patterns established at the synaptic level. When you enjoy, dislike, hate, etc. something it is correlating, on concert with, a recording made in your mind from past experiences. While this in itself may not be good or bad, nearly all these connections, memory echoes, are going on in your subconscious which you are unaware of.

 

To give a drastic and seemingly odd example, you may rate a guitar players efforts very highly because of a series of trivial unremembered incidents while you were a baby. Something about the player him/herself, or some simple combination of notes, can trigger a deep subconscious empathy and appreciation. As nice as this is, it is not objective enough to honestly establish the mastery of a performing artist.

 

Secondly, are you selecting the player for the ability to play a series of riffs superbly and consistently? This again is an error. Expertise, accomplished and applied, can execute riffs like that which, honestly, places the player in the top 100,000 or so. Nothing to write home about.

 

So what makes a true master of a musical instrument, specifically the guitar? Have you ever heard a riff, or better, watched it as well, and were completely riveted to the performance. You very well may not even have liked the song being played. The player and the instrument became a single organism before your eyes and ears. You dont even try, somewhere in your mind, to imagine yourself cranking out the notes like that. It is almost like the artist is in some private orgy with his instrument, very likely unaware, as fingers snake the fretboard, the pick seeming to be in 2 or 3 places at the same time, that there even is an audience. As if you, the audience, is a voyeur to a private intimacy

 

Now forgive me here if I cite a couple of examples. Listen to Hendrix play 3 versions of Red House or similar. No two alike. Each time he made that climb it was private ordeal, not just experimenting but seeing if, each time he made the run, he could take it just a little bit farther. Stevie Ray Vaughn with, say, Texas Flood, another example.

 

Both had mastered their instrument quite early in their careers. Where they went from there, driving themselves to their absolute limits, is the phenomenal that makes other guitar players freeze in their tracks and listen. Vaughn copied Hendrix. If the time lines could change, Hendrix would have done the same. They werent copying per se, but taking a superb mastery and seeing how much farther they could run with it.

 

Copying someone elses riffs. Most up and coming players try to emulate the masters of the ax. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Emulation is a form of mastery as well. This is something that one needs to keep in mind when you select your own list of the top 100 players. You place player X here, player Y there on the list. While you are at it, you need to keep in mind there are very few players riffs that Beck, Knopfler, Johnson and a couple dozen others couldnt duplicate, note for note. When considering the best of the best elite, you know they could not only duplicate or produce a signature version just as good, they could take it a significant distance farther.

 

Keep in mind most guitar players have a signature sound. For the most part these are adjuncts from stomps and the like. I have seen hundreds of would be guitar players spend endless hours and dollars trying to emulate certain sounds. A lot of those sounds being a combo of wave shapers, benders and tweakers, set to a certain guitarists personal preferences. Id like a $1.50 for every person who came up to me and asked for his ax and or amp tweaked so they can sound like SRV. (Honestly, that is just a little preposterous. Grow Stevies fingers and brain then take any healthy Strat and toss some chunks of piano wire on for strings and pump it all into a cheap tube amp with a crap speaker).

 

Dave Gilmour is an excellent example of a masterful guitarist, one who should be on anyones top 50 list, but not for his unique sound. He is stomp box crazy and one of the first to admit it. If you want an example of his mastery, check out his reverse bends. (Anyone can bend. Try unbending, hitting the notes dead on in rapid succession).

 

But could Gilmour extract his own accompaniment from the horrendous screeching roar feedback of a Marshall stack with a speaker on fire, blast an extra 70 or 80 notes into a 500 note 10 second riff ala Beck and pull some ultimate snarly nasty fretboard shredding sound straight from down under as SRV? Probably wouldnt try. Who could? Very very few.

 

Now we are bringing our critique, our list, into perspective. What constitutes those who have gained complete ax mastery and have then gone on. Not just gone on but were driven to take virtually every lick as far as they could take it. Thrown away all conventions, all practiced formulas, all rote repetitions of making sure they hit the exact note at each gig. Not just the complex mastery of every possible sound and aspect as Eric Johnson and a few others, but a very unique combination of two special things.

 

Have you noticed that you could hear a Hendrix riff that he never played that exact way before and instantly know it was him? The same with SRV. Now we are in a very rarefied field indeed. There are many accomplished masters who can duplicate others riffs The ones that truly stand out, that you can tell by just paying attention for a minute or two are the genuine article. Those are the grandmasters of the ax and have those two so very rare qualities:

Their own personal connection with the instrument that transcends playing. To use a crude analogy, like someone digging a hole in the dirt. That the shovel is going to hit right each and every time is beyond a given. The control over the ax is just as absolute as the man with the shovel. The expertise is no longer an issue. He can go anywhere he wants, in any direction he wants, with only his endurance to limit him.

A creativity that comes from absolute mastery. The ax will produce any sound I want, the only limit, my imagination.

 

And so, on the list of the top guitar players, who do you really think belongs on the list? Search your mind and see if you can think of guitar players who: Can not truly be duplicated, only emulated. Who seldom played the same song twice, utterly unafraid to try a whole new lick for the first time, in front of an audience. Who could play an ax as if it was something as simple as a shovel. Who often enthralled other masters of the ax and left them spellbound.

[skipclone 1]

I probably need to reread your post more than once, but this year I was fortnate to see G3 and Beck within a month of each other. I had a nice time at G3 (the DVD is out, I thought it was Steve`s night, see if you agree), but Beck literally had me stupified. I would put him on tha list. And screw MTV`s slavish knee-jerk youth culture monotone, while we`re at it.

[Hardtail]

You broke a basic rule of essay writing in this prose. Don't insult the reader.

 

What I mean is that you seem to imply that no one but you knows what constitutes a great guitar player because no one but you knows the correct criteria for judging a great guitar player.

 

Sorry dude. You write well but this piece comes off sounding a little arrogant and smug. I'll read it a few more times in case I'm misunderstanding your message.

[Gruupi]

Well I always put Eric Johnson on top for my own personal reasons. Is he the fastest guitarist? No, he is fast but there are many fast guitarists. Does he have the most innovative style? No, you can hear most of his influences and where he gets his ideas.

 

The reason I like his playing is that everything he does has the goal of sounding the best that it can. His technique, his writing, and his equipment tweaking are all a means to an end to just make the best electric guitar sounds that can be made (subjective of course). I appreciate the fact that he took the time it took to create Ah Via Musicom and Venus Isle, it just goes to show that there is a place for craftsmanship still in music.

 

Eric Johnson does not improvise as much as a jazz musician or is he as creative as a Hendrix. But he does improvise quite a bit live. He very rarely plays anything but the signature heads to his tunes and the soloes especially are different every time.

 

I don't know if 50 years from now that Eric Johnson's name will come up much, he is in a pretty narrow genre of catering primarily to guitarists only. I don't think non-guitar players can really appreciate what he does. Hendrix and SRV had a certain image that hit the general public's hot buttons.

[Bbach1]

Your post is sooooooo long it's way past rant.

 

Shoot, I don't know what constitutes a great guitarist. I reckon it's greatly a matter of opinion, which we are all entitled to. Seems like you've given it a lot of thought tho.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

I don't care about 'THE BEST GUITARIST'. I care about great music. My viewpoint is probably all about tunes... be it Dylan or Bach. Dylan is not a great player, Dylan writes great tunes. Without the tunes, there is no place for the "GREAT GUITARIST" to showcase his abilities.

 

Dave Mathews is a cool guitar player who writes great tunes. Is he a 'great' guitar player? Probably by my definition, but probably NOT by anyone who defines guitar playing using any traditional sensibilities. (Does he write and read? Use proper technique? Keep proper timing? etc etc? Don't know, don't care.)

 

Bill

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

So, basically, I'm not supposed to consider somebody a great guitarist just because I like his playing?

 

Well... uhmm... I suppose you're right but it kinda goes against the grain.

 

And anyway, I don't think your post makes much sense. On the one hand you border on this Skinnerian trip about conditioned reflexes and so on, but it never occurs to you that when you are riveted by some passage in a song that you might otherwise dislike, that riveting might ALSO be a product of your childhood experiences. So where are you going with this?

 

HINT: read up on Skinner and Watson, ie the behaviourist school of psychology.

 

Skinner claimed that there IS no mind, and that we're all a product of conditioned reflexes.

 

Makes a sort of sense, really. If there IS a mind, why the hell can we not find it, no matter how many brains we dissect? Thought? Skinner defines it as "subvocal speech" because it's practically impossible to think of something if we have no words to describe what we're thinking of. Unless it's stuff like reacting to pain or some other external stimulus, ie conditioned reflex.

[Bluesape]

First of all - welcome.

 

You're very new here, and need to know that we regard this forum as a social vehicle. Long posts, especially those that resemble a tutorial, will elicit some less than endearing feedback.

 

From what I've read, you seem very well-informed about players and gear, and will be a valued contributor here. Some of us are a little too hard on newcomers who leap out of the gate preaching their viewpoint. I don't think that's your intent, but it elicited a conditioned response.

 

Again, welcome to our at times unruly little group. We're a good bunch - just take a bit more time to familiarize yourself to our quirks.

[Guitar55]

Flowers of Evil, meet Bluesape, the forum's unofficial diplomat. :-)

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Guitar55:

Flowers of Evil, meet Bluesape, the forum's unofficial diplomat. :-)

Thank goodness SOMEBODY is!

[Hardtail]

I wasn't trying to hammer the newb. I'm still a newb myself. I was just disagreeing with his post. I found it too preachy and contemptouous (sp?) to the reader.

[Bluesape]

Thank you, thank you - I try to be a calming factor - WHEN I'M NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF A FLAMEFEST FOR DISSING COUNTRY MUSIC!! GRRR!! SNARL!!

 

Peace and love

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Originally posted by Flower of evil:

 

1. Do you feel X deserves to be on the top list because you have consistently enjoyed his licks and riffs? If so, you should consider disqualifying yourself or at the least, your choice.

 

 

2. ...Have you ever heard a riff, or better, watched it as well, and were completely riveted to the performance. ... It is almost like the artist is in some private orgy with his instrument, very likely unaware, as fingers snake the fretboard, the pick seeming to be in 2 or 3 places at the same time, that there even is an audience. As if you, the audience, is a voyeur to a private intimacy ...

 

 

3. ... Listen to Hendrix play 3 versions of Red House or similar. No two alike. Each time he made that climb it was private ordeal, not just experimenting but seeing if, each time he made the run, he could take it just a little bit farther. ... Where they went from there, driving themselves to their absolute limits, ...

 

4. ... most guitar players have a signature sound.

 

5. ... Id like a $1.50 for every person who came up to me and asked for his ax and or amp tweaked so they can sound like SRV. (Honestly, that is just a little preposterous.

 

6. ...Dave Gilmour is an excellent example of a masterful guitarist, one who should be on anyones top 50 list, but not for his unique sound. He is stomp box crazy and one of the first to admit it. If you want an example of his mastery, check out his reverse bends. (Anyone can bend. Try unbending, hitting the notes dead on in rapid succession).

 

 

7. And so, on the list of the top guitar players, who do you really think belongs on the list? Search your mind and see if you can think of guitar players who: Can not truly be duplicated, only emulated. Who seldom played the same song twice, utterly unafraid to try a whole new lick for the first time, in front of an audience. Who could play an ax as if it was something as simple as a shovel. Who often enthralled other masters of the ax and left them spellbound.

1. howzzat? My opinions and experience are invalid for making decisions? run that by me again, in a way that makes sense.

 

2. No, and it sounds creepy/obsessive/sad to me.

 

3. romatic claptrap. They played. They got stoned. They got tired, or hungry, or drunk. They had good nights and bad nights. They grew familiar with the material and went different places with it. Some worked, some didn't. You cannot coorelate quality/time, because you have not gotten exposed to the horrible failye nights... nobody puts those out for you to hear. Maybe the best nights were never recorded, you don't know. But to try to turn them into romantic knights on a quest fo the holy grail is really absurd. They are/were musicians out to make a buck, play a gig, have a good time, and hopefully make some cool music. Just like the rest of us.

 

4. simply not true. Most guitar players do not have a signature sound. Only a handful of very famous guitar players have a signature sound. Most famous players have a sound that grows and changes over the years, or they die before they have a chance to get past one sound for which they got notoriety.

 

5. If I wanna build a house, I start with the correct materials. I have all sorts of options, but to build a particular type of house, I would be smart to start with the particular materials that are associated with that type of house. If I have the chops or not to do it after that is rather my problem, but at least I will have started out with the right stuff. I often make the point that Hendrix sounds like Hendrix on all of his differet setups, including acoustic. But I still can't fault someone who wants to emulate a sound by emulating the gear. It is a good place to start.

 

6. David Gimour bores me to tears. He is the epitomy of someone who made it, not on amazing playing, but by association because he was in what is considered to be an amazing group. Therefore, people have analyzed every note he ever played and how he played it. I'm not trashing him as a musician or as a technician, but as a GREAT -player-, yawn. I know that he is a GOOD player and that people love him as an ensemble player; all very good things to be. But he comes nowhere near making my list of great players, because what he pays in Pink Floyd is absolutely right for the songs, but absolutely uninspiring to me, a fellow guitarist. I guess I feel the same way about him as a guitarist as drummers must feel about Ringo. Personally I love Ringo's playing and I think that it was exactly right for the music of the Beatles. But I have heard many drummers slog him off as if he was a nothing. You may cite specific rifs to refute what I say, but I am talking about a body of work, which is a criteria for almost any serious discussion of the best of anything.

 

7. It is not very hard, usung your arguments, to claim that SRV is a poor shadow/copy of Hendrix. As I said in another post, 'great guitarists' is a moving target depending upon who is shooting. But your criteria/postulation is full of holes.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:

6. David Gimour bores me to tears.

**whew** I thought I was the only one...

[LPCustom]

One might beg the question, why does it matter? Does the best get to be God for a year? Honestly, playing guitar isn't a competition. I like who and what I like and I couldn't care less who else likes them or that or if anyone else agrees with my criteria.

 

Debating about who is the best guitarist or even how you judge them seems pointless to me. You're never going to have the same criteria so why butt heads over it?

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by LPCustom:

One might beg the question, why does it matter? Does the best get to be God for a year?

I don't think it matters one bit. It DOES seem to be a fashion among the more commercial mags such as Rolling Stone to come up with these lists of 100 best whatevers.

 

And of course, there's the attendant problem of whether so and so should be number five or number six ("I am not a number. I am a free man!", etc )

 

I guess those lists are useful for people who are just getting their feet wet in music and need these bluffers' guides, but seriously... who cares?

[Gifthorse]

Dunno, but I do have my favorites.

 

Rolling Stone never nails the right guys when it makes those lists. My opinion.

 

EVH, Joe Walsh, Leo Kotte, Jeff Beck, Allan Holdsworth, Junior Brown, Wayne Krantz, Bela Fleck (banjo or whatever, he also plays guitar. A god at improvising), Doyle Dykes (best finger picker I have seen).

[Phillydor]

Every dog has his day, just like every dishlicker has his dish (and every Kramer has his Newman!)

 

It stands to reason that at any time, there is probably some guitar player somewhere in the world experiencing his moment of satori, and maybe just for a brief little while has risen above everyone else. This moment in time, who knows? It could be,say, Santana - certainly when he recorded Caravanserai he was right up there. Listen to his latest album however (if you dare) and you realise that even the greats come down to earth sooner or later.

But who knows - maybe Carlos has just woken from an afternoon nap picked up his guitar and made that cosmic connection one more time!

 

My guess is that right at this second there is some nine year old kid in somewhere like China who can blow the socks off anyone, we just haven't heard about him yet.

 

I admit that I can justifiably be accused of loudly proclaiming whichever guitarist I happen to be currently excited about as 'the best ever'. If you are passionate about music this is unavoidable. Remember Toad in Wind In The Willows and his uncontrollable excitement for every new hobby, such as driving a motor car? I think we're all a little like that.

 

Btw Attention Vince/Kramer; I got my Chris Spedding CD, Click Clack (named after a Beefheart song!) and it's wonderful. One track is described in the liner notes as "stripped of artifice" - this sums up the whole album for me; this is refreshing from someone who can rightly claim guitar legend status.

A lot of these 'legends' get way too overblown in their approach, maybe they feel they have to live up to their reputation. Even if no-one knows Spedding's name, they've definately heard his guitar playing. He has great chops but never over-does it just to prove how great he is. Sometimes the less-is-more approach is best.

 

Flower (no relation to Herbie Flower of Evil?) I enjoyed your writing, it's a reminder that magazines like Guitar Player are as much about writing as they are technical information about guitars, and we can all learn from that as well (ie. writing).

If they ever start up a list for best guitar rants, you're right up there near the top!

[Note to self; Good idea for future thread - Musicology, Creative Writing and Guitar?]

[Guitar55]

Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

It DOES seem to be a fashion among the more commercial mags such as Rolling Stone to come up with these lists of 100 best whatevers.

As far as those lists go, the ranking means nothing to me. I do enjoy, however, when they are accompanied by a good story about the writing or recording of the songs.

[Guitar55]

It's been said many times, many ways....music is not a competition....and even if it were, who is to determine the criteria for being the "best"?

Certainly not "Flower of Evil".

[Gifthorse]

All the guitarists that were posted about so far are rock or blues/rock.

 

It is interesting how many people ignore all the other styles of playing that are far more difficult to play.

 

I guess anything is as hard as you make it, but though Dave Gilmour is a badass rock player, rock is probably the easiest form of guitar to play. Does this make him a MASTER? I think he is because he has defined himself on guitar. What more can you ask for.

 

But too many people think rock is the only style. They haven't been exposed to many other players. I am not saying that I am an expert on jazz, but I know that it takes more work and discipline to play than rock.

[MILLO]

Hey Flower,

 

There's no best, and since there's no best, there's no 20 or 50 or 100 best.

 

My personal favorites? In no particular order:

Sérgio & Odair Assad

Badi Assad

Joao Gilberto (primarily a singer)

Manuel Barrueco

Denis Azabagic

Silvio Rodríguez (primarily singer/songwriter)

Eduardo Falú

Allan Holdsworth

Alex Lifeson

Marcyn Dilla

José Manuel Aguilera

Robben Ford

Wes Montgomery

Pat Martino

Angel Romero

Pepe Romero

Marco Pereira

...and many more, incluing unknown names....

 

and the list will only continue to grow, and I'm sure I left some....

 

As of lately I'm liking Chris Poland (just bought the 2nd Ohm album), and I'll need to look into the catalogs of Mike Stern, Bill Frissell, a few European fusion guys, some younger classical cats like Lorenzo Micheli and Franco Platino, etc...

 

Guys I admire and like A LOT (w/ some exceptions) but that do not make the 'favorites' list simply b/c of issues of 'taste' (as guitarists and/or because of their songs, but I LOVE most of these guys' sounds, w/ some notable exceptions):

Frank Gambale

EVH

SRV (kinda dislike his sound)

Vai (kinda dislike his sound)

Malmsteen

Satriani (dislike his sound)

Segovia

John Williams

Julian Bream (kinda dislike his sound)

Eric Johnson

Hendrix

Page (kinda dislike his sound)

....and about a million more, including people of all ages and musical genres I keep meeting....

 

Three famous guys that I think have taken virtuosism in the electric guitar to EXTRA high levels: Holdsworth, Gambale and Steve Morse.

 

If it's a matter of 'creativity' on the guitar I got at least 3 names for you:

Leo Brouwer

Roland Dyens

Nuccio D'Angelo

 

Most of these guys are, in my humble opinion, GREAT guitarists and musicians and I bet you thought only of a few of them (the names that ALWAYS come about on those stupid 'best of' lists). Granted, some of them are really not as well rounded musicians or as virtuosic as others. Most of these guys will never be mentioned in Rolling Stone magazine's lists.

 

I only wrote those lists as "guitarists you should give a listen and see if you like, because I think they have something special to offer". Long title, eh? DEFINITELY NOT A "BEST GUITARISTS" LIST, w/ Jimi or SRV at the top .

[MILLO]

Originally posted by flagshipmile:

All the guitarists that were posted about so far are rock or blues/rock.

 

It is interesting how many people ignore all the other styles of playing that are far more difficult to play.

Funny, I hadn't read your post before posting mine. Yup, many peeps seem to think: guitar=blues and rock .

[Flower of evil]

You guys are sharp. Those of you who did cite certain players obviously did so with a very critical eye. Let me harpoon/lambast/retort/retract/regroup/reply a little to individual comments if I may.

First, I won't dis Country even if I dislike most of it. It's a sound, if often not that creative. Keep in mind most of the contributions Leo Fender made to the world of music had their roots in country music, but one example.

 

SRV was the first to admit he was a Hendrix copy. He took it a little further though, don't you think?

 

KPB My apologies for sounding insulting. In actuality, that posting was about 20 letters I had written over the years, recompiled a bit. One of the iron rules of the tech is to never insult your boss. Believe me, after 20 years of my nose crammed up various prima donna's arses, I have a few sentiments about some players. But propriety demands I still keep my mouth shut and not name names. Yup, I'm arrogant and smug. I'm at the top, best of the best, tube amp gurus wise. On the other hand, I can't play anything for beans and am awed by many of you musicians.

 

Gruupi. I'd agree with your assessment of Johnson. My clearest recollection of him was some discussion of a Hendrix riff that someone commented was impossible for the average guitar player to duplicate because of Jimi's gigantic hands. Johnson just chuckled, stuck the chord and instantly spun the tuner key into the last note.

 

Bluescape. Yup, I'm new here. But not new to you musicians. While I sound arrogant, hey, check my location. Bullet proof! Actually, I hold any musician that kicks it in the ass and searches for their own idea of the sound, the way to play, in very high regard. Let's quote from Willy Wonka. We are the music makers. We are the dreamers of dreams.

 

LPCustom. I know (or knew) when Goldtop #1 is/was. Bite me. Actually, who is on the list and who is the best is academic. What is significant to me is what drives a player to make that reach for the phenominal. I've seen thousands of musicians drive themselves relentlessly. In a few, things seem to connect perfectly, in others, it never seems to happen. Why is this? What is it within your beings, within those rare few, that makes them reach that little bit higher?

[Flower of evil]

By the way, if one wants to go into psychological anal-ysis ala Skinner or whoever (Maybe Pavlov could figure in here), I'd like to know who compiles those lists in Rolling Stone? If it is a single individual, can we get him dissected to ass-certain if he is in fact a humanoid life form? (I'm suspecting a secondary form of evolution involving squids and jello)

[Bluesape]

By no means did I think you were new to musicians. You were too new to gain acceptance here with your aggressive, pile-driver approach. I also fail to see what's bulletproof about an undisclosed location in a third world country. If you're at the top of the tube amp guru game, wtf are you doing there? I'm not doubting you, I just don't see how you manage it. Do rock stars fly to Bangkok and ride elephants in to your location, or do they fly you to London, N.Y., L.A., and Nashville?

[Flower of evil]

Deleriously happy I am never again going to hear about my paychecks cruising up some punk rock noise makers nose. I'm out of the game.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Flower of evil:

By the way, if one wants to go into psychological anal-ysis ala Skinner or whoever (Maybe Pavlov could figure in here), I'd like to know who compiles those lists in Rolling Stone?

I really have no idea, but it's by no means limited to Rolling Stone.

 

I wonder if there's a company that produces these lists for various publications.

 

It wouldn't be very different from any other sort of poll. You just stand outside concerts with a clipboard asking people who they believe is the best guitarist ever. Ask 100 guys and you can go home. Repeat process at monster truck rallies, dog shows, etc...

 

 

Vince.

[Bluesape]

Out of the game makes perfect sense. Thailand must be a neat locale to retire.

[Flower of evil]

You are right. It's not just Rolling Stone. But it needs to be said, most of those lists are popularity polls as much as anything else. Popularity is an incidental that really shouldn't be in the critique at all. Millo gives a good list which bears this out.

To me, this is aggravating. It should be to many of you as well. There are a lot of ultra top flight musicians out there that belong on those lists but aren't, as Rolling Stone's (expletive deleted) list, popular enough to mention.

(And there are always a few who creep in on those lists who really should be playing at monster truck rallies)