Gruupi Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 I think I agree with Musicalhair (except on the farting and fondling bits), he sums up what I think helps a player define his tone. The very important brain part is often overlooked. You have to conceptualize, then listen and edit from what you hear to achieve the tone you want. I think we focus on gear so much because it is pretty easy to change your sound pretty quickly by buying a different amp or guitar. You can't take gear out of the equation, Segovia might sound pretty funny if he had plugged in a Les Paul into a cranked 100w Marshall. But any two players in the world would sound different through the exact same rig. I think the "better" you get as a player, the more these differences in the way you finger the guitar affects the tone. It isn't the notes you play, its how you play them. My soundclick site: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=397188 My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/gruupi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caprae Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Just thought I would add this here from another thread talking about Jim Gletch sitting in on a jam session: Originally posted by ellwood: OH OH and here is an observation about tone, to add to another thread about tone that is going on now... he used my bass players rig and guitar.. he did NOT touch anything except the tone control on the guitar but NOT the amps. There was a huge difference in his tone, we all commented on that. Not necessaraly better but no doubt different, he used a pick on all tunes except Sunshine and Blue Collar. Raise your children and spoil your grandchildren. Spoil your children and raise your grandchildren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Museeip Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 I believe a HUGE part of what we call tone comes first from the fingers. Especially like Lee said with the pick hand. Like Bruce said, listen to acoustic stuff and someones Tone" comes out...or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreibel Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 many years ago in London England, I stopped in a small music shop and poked around there. I happened to spot a Peavey Mystic and, thinking about buying it, plugged it into a small Music Man amp they had, dialed in a nice sound and was soon grooving on it. Another guy came in and remarked on how good it looked and sounded, so I let him have a go. Without changing a single setting, the tone changed completely - brighter, more distorted and a little shriekier. That spoke volumes to me about how tone comes more from touch than from equipment. Though the right equipment sure does help "I used to be "with it", but then they changed what "it" was! Now what I'm with isn't "it", and what is "it" is weird and scary to me. IT'LL HAPPEN TO YOU!" - Grampa Simpson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Reading Vince C's statement... "As in "you need a Tele and some sort of Fender amp to get 'that country sound'", but even if I had the same gear as uhmmm... Waylon Jennings, I wouldn't necessarily sound like him." I'll say that "sound" is in the fingers and "tone" is in the gear...if you want to put it like that. "Sound", to me, is that defining part that makes, say, Carlos or B.B. or Stevie Ray instantly identifiable, whereas "tone", to me, comes from the strings, wood, pickups, wiring, amp, stompbox batteries...er...well, you get my drift. "Sound" is produced by the method in which a guitarist attacks a guitar, and that is very much in the hands, which is why people say "Take Carlos' PRS away and give him a Strat, and it will still 'sound' like Santana, and yet the 'tone' will be very different". That's my 2 quarters... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A String Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Musicalhair has this nailed here. I truly believe that this whole thing is just a misunderstanding of definitions. Does anyone disagree with: -Two people using the same rig will sound different. -One person using two different rigs will still sound like themselves. Any other arguing is just fighting over the same thing with different names. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tone Taster Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 Originally posted by A String: Does anyone disagree with: -Two people using the same rig will sound different. -One person using two different rigs will still sound like themselves. No disagreement. It's like this for me personally. I play a killer taylor acoustic with an awesome Bartolini Bridge Pickup Then I play a no name acoustic that already sounds thin and tinny without being plugged in with a cheap sound hole pickup So yeah it still sounds like me, but suckier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Any instrument I have ever played is capable of getting a good country sound. A humbugger not even single coil, on the bridge pickup and the tone controls dialed in correctly can sound great on country lead Pick attack and technique make all the difference. http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicalhair Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 I agree with Ellwood. You can play country with virtually any instrument, and any style with virtually any instrument. I'm not sure where the post about needing a tele for country even came from, or if it was like posted in "all seriousness" or anything. check out some comedy I've done: http://louhasspoken.tumblr.com/ My Unitarian Jihad Name: Brother Broadsword of Enlightened Compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 It occurs to me that "guitar wankers" might like to check out Tone Lotion. "A cheerful heart is good medicine." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tone Taster Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 Originally posted by Ricochet: It occurs to me that "guitar wankers" might like to check out Tone Lotion. It won't make the strings too sticky, will it? There's already a thread recently started called sticky neck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rw2003 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Why would anyone remove the player (and player's fingers) from the tone equation? Yeah, the equipment matters but its the player and their fingers that are physically making it happen. (I am an average rock guitar player.) A number of years back I was playing with a friend who was sort of a beginner. He was playing a new Fender Strat and I had a LP - both of us through pracice amps w/ distortion effects. We both played for a while and then switched guitars to mix it up a bit. His immediate comment was "Man, you make my Fender sound like it has humbuckers on it!" "Spend all day doing nothing But we sure do it well" - Huck Johns from 'Oh Yeah' Click to Listen to Oh yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Originally posted by musicalhair: I agree with Ellwood. You can play country with virtually any instrument...I'm not sure where the post about needing a tele for country even came from, or if it was like posted in "all seriousness" or anything. I posted it originally, so as to underline that there are certain "sounds" which require certain pieces of gear, at least if you're going to be completely faithful to the recordings. I was also referring a bit to GtrWiz's post on this thread. I personally couldn't care less if people use 7 string to play C&W, but it seems to be important to some. **shrug** Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicalhair Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Hey Vince C. I think I see now where you posted that, so seeing it in context I know what you mean. I kinda think the tele=country is more like hollywood typecasting than like "needed", I mean we've seen plenty of big name country players on Gibsons, PRS, Strats, and I dont' see why Gretchs Guilds or Ricks won't get it done--- oh I mean git r done-- and guys have not just used Fender amps but Riveras and Matchless and I'm sure many many others that I just can't recall. I have two tele's and they are really versatile guitars, Page used them a lot, Roy Buchanan, Albert Collins, Ed Bickert. I kinda think tele's get a bad rap-- if saying they are good at something can be a bad rap, kinda like saying "Asians are good at math", well they can be more than that and so can teles. Mind you I'm not disagreeing with the idea that some gear has certain sounds or that people have certain expectations. I just think the Tele is "picked on too much for that. I dont' think arch tops are needed for jazz, but still people playing jazz (usually non-guitarists) expect arch tops and sometimes doubt anyone not playing them. Rufus Reid said to a guy I used to know at the end of an audition to get into the college, "When you gonna get a real guitar, son?" because he played a strat. I'm begining to think that you absolutely can't get a modern metal sound with any Fender that I'd want to own. I can't speak for the ones I'm not interested in, but the ones I've played or have wanted might not "do" that stuff. Single coils might not "do" that sound all that well either, I'm not sure I don't "do" that anyway. So a lot like "country music" I'm talkin' outta my ass on metal music. check out some comedy I've done: http://louhasspoken.tumblr.com/ My Unitarian Jihad Name: Brother Broadsword of Enlightened Compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Originally posted by musicalhair: I mean we've seen plenty of big name country players on Gibsons, PRS, Strats, and I dont' see why Gretchs Guilds or Ricks won't get it done--- I know. There's also a tendency, among the surviving guitar companies, to "rewrite history", in their own small way, by pushing pictures of guitar players using (as far as possible) whatever bit of gear needs pushing in 2005. If you look at Fender or Gibson catalogs, you soon get the impression that nobody's ever played anything else, while actual live photos of bands (from the 1960s especially) show a pretty bewildering array of forgotten gear. I wonder what sort of non aggression pacts Fender and Gibson came up with in Hendrix's case Country is in a similar boat: I've never been to Nashville, but I find it strange that people who were willing and broadminded enough to make the jump to electric guitars suddenly decided that they would never play anything but Teles ever again and remained frozen like that since the 1950s. Originally posted by musicalhair: oh I mean git r done-- and guys have not just Aw, gitalong gitalong... Originally posted by musicalhair: Rufus Reid said to a guy I used to know at the end of an audition to get into the college, "When you gonna get a real guitar, son?" because he played a strat. What a dropkick, eh? Originally posted by musicalhair: I'm begining to think that you absolutely can't get a modern metal sound with any Fender that I'd want to own. No need for a strat to be strictly a single coil proposition these days. Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Iverson Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 It's true that equipment (AND how you set it) makes a big difference. But how you attack the strings (caress vs. strangle etc.) makes a big difference, too. I have an old Segovia album I plan to dig out, where he got a fantastic variety of tones without ANY signal processing. Just as a reminder that it is possible to do that. Since sometimes a guy will play great ideas, with excellent technique, and a nice tone, overall. But if you never vary the tone, it gets monotonous to the listener, doesn't it? I'm not trashing anyone, just a friendly reminder to all, myself included! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Originally posted by Eric Iverson: I have an old Segovia album I plan to dig out, where he got a fantastic variety of tones without ANY signal processing...yeah, yeah... But is he as good as Esteban? Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Originally posted by Eric Iverson: I have an old Segovia album I plan to dig out, where he got a fantastic variety of tones without ANY signal processing. There is an Ed Gerhard album called House of Guitars, where he does an album with pawn shop instruments. The Breedlove "Ed Gerhard" Signature axe is sweet,but optional. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Originally posted by Caputo: Originally posted by Ricochet: It occurs to me that "guitar wankers" might like to check out Tone Lotion. It won't make the strings too sticky, will it?The lotion won't. "A cheerful heart is good medicine." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Originally posted by Vince C.: Originally posted by Eric Iverson: I have an old Segovia album I plan to dig out, where he got a fantastic variety of tones without ANY signal processing...yeah, yeah... But is he as good as Esteban? Esteban studied with Segovia. I've been reading the succession of arguements since I posted the following, all seemingly arguing for exactly what I posted, yet confusing the issue with personal definitions of words. Originally posted by fantasticsound: Fingers = Personality, voice Gear = Tonal parameters Gear + Fingers = specific tone of any given player.I'm not claiming to be the expert on anything, but it just seems like several people are arguing in circles. You guys almost sound like a guitar version of, "Who's On First?" It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar55 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Of course Tele's = Country, everyone knows it!! Just listen to some Tele players, they all sound the same! Danny Gatton Mike Stern Mike Bloomfield Pete Anderson Jimmy Page (on LZ1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Originally posted by Guitar55: Of course Tele's = Country, everyone knows it!! Just listen to some Tele players, they all sound the same! Danny Gatton Mike Stern Mike Bloomfield Pete Anderson Jimmy Page (on LZ1) Chet would argue with ya! and BLOOMFIELD...tele? what about his LP's http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar55 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Ellwood, That's my point! They DON'T all sound the same and they don't all play Country. Bloomfield played a Tele for a while as well as an LP. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Probably, the best way to approach this aspect of tone is to say that equpment will get you into a one neighborhood or another, but your head, hands, and heart get you to the address. That is why two guys playing the same equipment don't necessarily sound the same. Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Originally posted by Guitar55: Ellwood, That's my point! They DON'T all sound the same and they don't all play Country. Bloomfield played a Tele for a while as well as an LP. Dennis OH ok I guess I didn't know he played a Tele I always think of him as a LP guy. http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar55 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 MB with Tele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Originally posted by Guitar55: MB with Tele Yep!! there he is, gezz and I HAVE that album too!! just forgot I guess, thanks for the reminder now I got to play the album!! http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar55 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Great album! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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