Guitar building dilema

[Gruupi]

I have been talking here awhile about building a guitar with Warmoth parts. Besides just general wishy washy not being able to make up my mind I do have a few questions to whoever has experience with this sort of thing. My main electric over the last few years has been a Carvin bolt on kit guitar which came out great. Its not that I really need another guitar but I always like to try and improve on things.

 

My biggest concern is that fixed bridges (or at least the ones Warmoth carries and drill holes for) for carved top guitars have no individual height and width adjustments. They offer many different neck widths and radiuses as well as a compund radius neck which is their standard. If the bridge isn't adjustable for width and radius then how are you going toe the action right? Most manufactuars probably match their bridges radius and width to the neck and let you adjust overall height and intonation. But since I haven't seen a fixed bridge for a carved top that has this option I have a feeling the outer "E" strings will be set but the center strings will be either to low or high.

 

Other things I haven't decided on are exactly which body style to go with but will probably go with the hollowed out option. I am really wanting a Les Paul or PRS type carved top but if I can't resolve the bridge issue I will probably settle for another Strat style. I am going to try and match the neck size of my Carvin if at all possible. I have pretty much decided on humbucker bridge (with coil tap) and then 2 single coils with single volume and tone control.

 

I am wanting to get a Gibson style lead tone and Fender style rhythm tones. I wasn't thinking about the PRS body style till this weekend when I picked up a few and was really liking the way they felt. Has anyone here done some Warmoth guitars, and if they went a little out of the ordinary how did they match up parts, particularly the bridge.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

I don't know exactly what you are talking about, but the carved top Warmoth body can be drilled by them to fit any standard bridge assembly. Mine is a gold Fender style tremolo with standard Graphtech saddles (and a Graphtech nut.)

 

Bill

[Gruupi]

Oh, by the way, I just emailed Warmoth with these questions also. They claim to be very good at customer service and helping people make the right decisions.

[Bluesape]

My Warmouth was hanging in a store when I found it. It's a Strat and had 3 Fender Noiseless singles in it with a pickguard that some bonehead had done some meatball surgury on. I bought it cheap, for less than I felt the pickups were worth. I had those put in my mid 80's American Standard Strat that had shrill, weak, noisy ones in it. I had a loaded pickguard with Reflex Red Dots - 2 singles, bridge hum - installed in the Warmouth. It now sounds like... an overdriven active guitar? not as smooth as EMG's, less defined, more strident, kinda odd, LOUD. It's now a second axe for jams. I have played entire gigs with it, but its tone isn't right for some stuff. The bridge hum is reminiscent of an SG when the coil tap is set to humbucker. Duuno if the body is Fender, Warmouth, or somethin' else. It's trans red mahogany, which has me thinkin' it's not Fender.

 

I like the neck - ebony board, rock maple, plays well, but feels strung heavier than my others, even though it isn't. Dunno how old it is, but it's a funky old workhorse, not enough dings to fuss about refinishing.

 

All in all, can't say anything bad about Warmouth. If I was gonna build a kit guitar, I'd look into Warmouth first - lots of neck, body, and fretboard wood choices, great reputation.

[Gruupi]

Warmoth responded to my email (within an hour), not bad. They replied that the problem is solved by shaping the bridge saddles to the radius of the neck. It would be a bit of work but sounds doable. I've been thinking about this guitar way to much, Warmoth just has so many options. Just about any combination of several of the major guitars where you can mix and match.

 

Has anyone built (or bought) a Les Paul style guitar with H S S pickup configuration. Were you able to get that clucky sounding out of phase sound between the middle and neck pickups? Not exactly like a Strat but somewhat similar.

[baronedo]

One neck option that Warmouth offers that I recommend is the beveled heel on the 1st string (i.e High E) side bottom of the neck. This allows you to reach the higher frets more easily. One caution (which Warmouth warns ) is that with the beveled heel you have to use a shorter neck attachment screw where the bevel is. The reason is pretty obvious - i.e. with the neck wood beveled down, the neck joint at the bevel has less width than the rest of the neck joint area, and a standard screw used in the bevel location hole will be too long and come up through the fret board - a definite NO NO.

[Ricardo.]

I've always wondered what happens if you put single coils on a Les Paul Never seen one... But why not?

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Starcaster:

I've always wondered what happens if you put single coils on a Les Paul Never seen one... But why not?

Yes, you have. The first Les Pauls had single coil pickups, the P90s.

[Caevan O’Shite]

What scale-length are you going to use? That will be a factor in whether it more closely favors Fender or Gibson type tones (and feel).

 

If you go with their (Warmoth's) usual 25.5" scale-length, a humbucker at the bridge will give you a good roaring sound, but perhaps more like EVH's humbuckered-Strat-style than Les Paul; and five-way switch positions 1, 2, and 3 will sound as Stratty as the single-coil pickups you choose will allow. Position 4- middle SC and bridge HB together in parallel- will sound cool, too, though not quite the same as a regular Strat-style's two single-coils would. If you're bridge HB is either tappable or otherwise can do some kind of a SC impersonation, it will sound more Fendery, but still not dead-on exact. I like the middle SC and bridge HB together sound, though, it's still kinda clucky but more midrangey and robust, and sounds really cool for those clean "koto" tones down-picking right up against the bridge-saddles, especially if done with your index-finger's nail with the fleshy-pad following through for this sort of a "snick" of an attack...

 

A maple 'board will do nicely here if you favor a more Fendery and EVH kinda sound; ebony would be nice too.

 

If you want more Gibsony warmth and roundness (at the expense of Fendery twang and definition), go with a 24.75" scale-length; for still more, go with a Humbucker/P-90/P-90 array, as well. You'll get a beautiful fat 'Super-Cluck' from the P-90's in the 2nd-position middle-and-neck selection, and more authentic Les Paul and Les Paul Special/Junior tones overall.

 

I LOVE the Brazillian rosewood, compound-radius fretboard on my Warmoth bird's-eye maple Strat-style neck. If you want either a more Gibsony or SRV's "Number One"-Strat kinda tone, I highly recommend their Brazillian rosewood option if you can afford it, or their Pau Ferro, another wonderful wood for fretboards, somewhere in between good brazillian rw and ebony in tone; looks real sharp, too!

 

O.K., radius at the bridge and all that...

 

Yhup, the way to most closely match a Tune-o-Matic or similar bridge (w/out individual height-adjustable saddles) to the radius of a given fretboard is by filing the depth of the notches and the overall height of the saddle.

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif (If you do this on an assembled or partially assembled guitar, be sure to mask-off the pickups very neatly, to prevent getting metal filings and debris in the pickup's coils.)

 

If you've got a fretboard of a given radius, you can get (or make) a convex radius-gauge that will slip under the strings and/or easily fit along the bridge for reference.

 

If you've got a compound radius fretboard- either a true conical-segment profile, or the style Warmoth uses where the radius gets larger (flatter) every so many frets- it's a little bit trickier to match a Tune-o-Matic or similar bridge to, as the strings must match or deliberately deviate from an imaginary conical-surface-plane that would extend from the fretboard's end to the saddles, completing the dimensions of said conical/compound radius...

 

My Warmoth-necked, compound-radiused 'Super-Strat'-stylee has a whammy-bridge with individually adjustable saddles on it, so it was a simple matter of measuring string-height at the 22nd-fret for each string. With a compound or conical radiused fretboard, the nut must conform to the 1st-fret's radius, and the bridge must conform- with allowances for any preferences of extra-height for the bass-strings, etc.- to an imaginary continuation of the conical plane described by the fretboard. Easy with individual height-adjustable saddles, not quite so simple with fixed ones...

 

There's a mathematical formula for solving what the radius would be at the bridge, presented in Dan Erlewine's Guitar Player repair Guide; I'm not sure how ethical it would be for me to post it here, can I recommend that you pick up a copy of the book? It really is a very excellent compendium of guitar repair, design, and building information, one of the best if not the best as far as covering practically everything in one book (as opposed to books that focus on a specific topic). You would do very well to have it to go by!

[Gruupi]

Very good information Dances with Werewolves. I do have Dan Erlewines book, thats how I knew to be aware of the radius in the first place. I guess I need to research what bridges are available. I don't mind filing if I have to, but prefer the flexabilty of an adjustable bridge. Most tremelo bridges offer this option, but I haven't see a fixed one that will work well on a carved top yet. I guess I could always shape a wood shim to fit any bridge on there, not sure how this would look, and I would also have to be concerned with neck pocket angle. I am an architect and can do the figuring out part, I am not all that good a carpenter or metal worker though.

 

As far as woods go I am leaning towards a mahogany body with maple top, and a mahogany neck with ebony fingerboard. I have always been drawn to the feel of ebony so that is the hardest one to consider changing, even though I know it is a bright sound. I am looking into a carved top as much for cosmetic reasons as any, I can always go flat and solve the bridge issue if I have to.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Cool; be sure to keep us posted as to what and how you do, O.K.?

 

I like ebony for a fretboard, too, don't get me wrong. And Les Paul Customs generally have ebony 'boards, though some had all-mahogany bodies (no maple top), as well.

 

So, which scale-length are you gonna go with?

[Gruupi]

Ok I am getting closer. I am going to go 25-1/2" scale. I may just go with the Wilkenson vibrato tailpiece, thats whats on my Carvin and I really like it. I was just hoping to go fixed bridge for simplicity, but the Wilkenson stays in tune and has plenty of adjustments. I have not found a fixed bridge for carved top thats screw adjustable (please if anyone can help me out here, please do) so may concede that point. I don't use the vibrato much but its always a nice twist.

 

This thing is getting expensive, its looking like $1300 now. Thats quite a bit of dough with no gaurantee of it sounding good. Of course painting and binding is gonna cost close to 500 of that. I painted my Carvin and that was really alot of work, and wasn't very durable.

 

I am still debating on neck and back. I know I will go ebony fretboard and flame maple top. But mahogany vs. maple neck/alder body might work too. Pickups and such is another big decision, I have never been a pickup guru, but I know that can make a huge difference in sound. I just know I want a tappable humbucker in bridge, and someway to get single coil and out of phase in the neck. Has any one here tried a Humbucker with a switch that makes it out of phase with itself, and how did it sound?

 

One last thing I might try before I make my final decison is to shop PRS's again. My futile search several years ago was what lead to the Carvin purchase. Maybe I can find a dealer that sets the guitars up better than Guitar center. At least I would know that playing before buying would let me know the sound and feel of the instrument. On paper PRS has most of what I want except for the ebony fretboard. I just never found one I liked before. I posted in another thread asking if anyone knew the pickup switching configuration of the rotary PRS's but didn't get an answer. PRS's website did not shed any light either.

[Rhino Madness]

Gruupi,

 

I don't have any answer for your questions here . However, I just want to let you know that I've had a great experience building a Warmoth guitar. I remember going back and forth for months as to what options to go for, wood type, neck size, not knowing if the outcome would be worth the effort and $$$, etc. Well, it came out so great and I've been so happy with the result that I am now thinking of doing it again with a different design to expand my guitar stable.

 

Dealing with Warmoth has been very enjoyable. Since I was in their area on a trip, I stopped by and got to visit the shop and, get this, pick out the plank of wood to build my new strat!!! Of course this was totally out of luck as they do not allow this (the cool dude who guided me through the litlle tour got looks of heavy disapproval from his co-workers ).

 

My strat is the best strat that I could ever get and is customized exactly to my needs. If you don't find the guitar of your dreams off an assembly line, go ahead and call Warmoth, it's worth it!

 

Rhino