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What is the essence of "suck'?


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Originally posted by Darklava:

If I don't like some

kind of music I just don't listen,but who am I

to trash it.These people work hard at their craft

just like you and I.Seems like the more a musician

learns and the better they get the more the snob

comes out. :(

Agreed. Research the reviews of Bach, Beethoven, or even Mozart in their day. Opinions are a dime a dozen, and it seems musical snobs are even more prevalent. I think there's something to be gained from most all music. Just because it's not your bag doesn't mean that it sucks.
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Originally posted by revorhythm:

Bluescape, i gotta ask. What is you picture?

It's me with my ESP strat. A buddy took it at a jam and tweaked into a slight animation. The Reif Rocks wording is courtesy of 'Zan. They appeared alternately in the two part animation that couldn't be shrunk to avatar size.
Never a DUH! moment! Well, almost never. OK, OK! Sometimes never!
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'Zan, that really SUCKS!! They're friggin' tires for chrissake. That's greed at a despicable level. Shall I write ya a note excusing you from work? Or would they be dubious of a note from Dr. Bluesape?
Never a DUH! moment! Well, almost never. OK, OK! Sometimes never!
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Originally posted by Caputo:

Is there a diifference between material which either Sucks or Blows.

 

It seems to me that something that Blows Reeeeaaaaaaaaalllllyyyyyy Suxxxxxxxxxx

Originally posted by revorhythm:

or is it something that sux reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyy blows

Well folks, we've reached quite a conundrum in regards to the intricate dynamics of what sucks and what blows

 

It sounds like this matter can only be addressed by the Unitarian Jihad brotherhood

 

I have ordained myself as

 

Brother Mushroom Cloud of Meditation and Mercy

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Ellwood, you're nuts. I disagree with basically everything you say. You seem to connect musical taste with personal music ability. You seem to imply that you can't dislike something unless you can do better yourself. If revorhythm dislikes the Beatles for whatever reason, he does not have to justify it by being able to be better than the Beatles. The thing about art is anyone can be a critic, and no one person's opinion is necessarily more valid than anyone else's.

 

It really seems like you can't step back and look at everything more abstractly... you couldn't even bring yourself to just say "a matter of taste," it was "a matter of taste or lack of taste"... Liking or disliking something based on whether or not I can play it seems rediculous to me. I'm sure you'd criticize some of the music I listen to as too simple, or say it doesn't represent the guitar as a "legimate instrument" because there are too many power chords and not enough of anything else. And that's so weird to me...

 

I used to be a little like that... For one example I used to look down on Blink 182 because the guitar work was so simple, saying to myself "I can do that! It's not that hard, thus it's not that good." Now I know thats not what it's about. I don't worship Blink or anything like that, but I can appreciate what they're doing for what it is. One of my favorite bands is The Presidents of the United States of America, who I just saw live. They use one guitar with 2 strings dropped down an octave for a bass, and the lead guitar player only uses 3 strings, but it is AWESOME. From the posts I've read from you, I'd think you'd promptly reject this due to the lack of strings, but for me, it's about the SONGS, man.

 

Please don't view this as an attack or anything, I'm just amazed at how you go about judging music, and personally I disagree completely...

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Without having read the prior posts...here's a tongue-in-cheek post of mine from Hominy Central...

 

Tom Petty sucks 'cuz his songs are too simple.

Robert Fripp sucks 'cuz his songs are too complicated

 

Neil Young sucks 'cuz he sings shitty.

Pavarotti sucks 'cuz he doesn't sing shitty enough.

 

Yngwie sucks 'cuz he plays too many notes.

B.B. sucks 'cuz he doesn't play enough notes.

 

Epiphones suck 'cuz they're not Gibsons

Gibsons suck because they're overpriced.

 

Squiers suck because they're not Fenders

MIM Fenders suck because they're still not Fenders

 

Geddy sucks 'cuz he sings like a girl

Eddie (Vedder) sucks 'cuz he sings like a guy

Scott Stapp sucks 'cuz he tries to sing like Eddie Vedder

 

And add:

 

Journey sucked 'cuz they're too commercial

The Dixie Dregs sucked 'cuz they're not commercial enough.

 

The point? No matter what your vantage point...you can find something that sucks.

 

But, really, none of the above suck at all, because, no matter how much your individual taste varies...SOMEONE likes the stuff listed above enough to say it has broad enough appeal, and enough of a baseline of talent that it has become popular.

 

What DOES suck then? The 15 year old pimply faced kid playing "Enter Sandman" too loudly at your local music store? The gal who can't carry a tune karaoke-ing "Crazy"? The guy who's been playing guitar for 60 years and knows ALL three chords, G, C, and D? Fact is, that each of these people have friends that support them and tell them they don't suck, too. The 15 year old kid playing "Enter Sandman" might suck to you, but maybe he only picked up his first guitar a couple of months ago. And, even if he improves little over the next ten years, he'll still always be better than his neighbor buddy who never picked up a guitar at all.

 

"Suck" depends on your vantage point. But, IMO, too many people use "suck" too frequently.

"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
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"Suck" usually means that the music critic in question is too lazy or ignorant to say anything meaningful! I personally avoid the word for that reason, and because it's such a mindless cliche!

 

Plus which some of the music I used to think fell in that category I now realize was very well done indeed! So while I wouldn't hesitate to say I didn't care for someone's playing/singing/songwriting/general attitude etc., if the subject came up, I think there are better (less moronic)ways of putting it!

 

And furthermore (don't I sound like an scolding old schoolmistress now!) to people who go on and on how so-and-so sucks, and so-and-so sort of sucks, and the other guy REALLY blows (a clear reference to whales, of course) I have one question: what have YOU done for me lately?

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Originally posted by revorhythm:

Ah screw the carbs, lets get six, and a dirty thirty of Busch in the fridge. Hell, at that point I could listen rap, and actually enjoy it. Weeellll....lets not go that far.

It'd take somethin' a helluva lot stronger than Busch to make me enjoy rap! :D
Never a DUH! moment! Well, almost never. OK, OK! Sometimes never!
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Originally posted by Eric Iverson:

I have one question: what have YOU done for me lately?

That's neither here nor there. I can tell if a car is crap even if I don't have an automotive engineering degree. I can tell if a doctor is not healing me, even without a degree.

 

So why should I be as good as whoever before I can say whether they suck or not?

 

I agree with you on the rest though.

 

To say that something "sucks", and just leave it at that is quite idiotic, really. If you're going to hate something, you should at least know why you feel that way and be able to explain it.

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Originally posted by Bluesape:

It'd take somethin' a helluva lot stronger than Busch to make me enjoy rap! :D

I'd love to work with rappers.

 

I think it'd be really cool because one could just play grooves and, because the rapper is just going on the rhythm, you wouldn't have to stick to a specified progression. It'd be great for a jam band.

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Originally posted by Bluesape:

You may have something there

Thanks! :) Yeah, I don't mean the "gansta" thing, but just lyrics with that rhythm in the voice.

 

I think they used to something that in the 50s, recite poetry over bongoes. Along with their black skivvies and berets :D

 

Anyway, I'd love to do that sometime but I've never met a poet who's like, "torrential" enough.

 

**tsk** This is getting OT...

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Another thought on this whole "sucks" thing: I remember a reader who once wrote Guitar Player saying "how come all the review of albums are so positive?" (I don't think that all the reviews of music and/or equipment are sweetness and light Polyanna stuff!) Their answer was, "there are so many fine recordings that come our way, that we prefer to focus on them, rather than the mediocre ones." Makes sense to me. Why bitch about Kenny G when you could turn someone on to Coltrane?

 

I probably am not quoting it 100% exactly, but that was the essence of it!

 

At least I have yet to read in a review, "this CD sucks!"

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Originally posted by Eric Iverson:

I have one question: what have YOU done for me lately?

Going by this logic, I can't criticize any visual art, because I am not a visual artist. I also can't say anything bad about TV shows or movies, because I'm not an actor. This also suggests that non-musicians are unable to determine what music is "good." WEIRD STUFF. I know I've seen movies that suck.

 

...at least.... I think I did.

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You guys are right: you don't have to be an expert in the field to recognize poor quality workmanship! (Like the time a neighbor fixed my car, and I went to start it up, and there was liquid spurting out of the engine, and I had paid him $200 for the work... I wasn't my usual easygoing self that day!) So, yes, he's a nice guy but he leaves a hell of a lot to be desired as a mechanic. And if someone asked me what I thought of his work, I would tell them exactly that. If someone I knew were considering employing him, I would probably mention my experience, as in, "tread lightly on this one!" I don't hate the guy or anything, but you have to be honest!

 

I guess my point was that I sometimes get tired of talking to certain people who endlessly talk about how everything and everybody sucks - there are plenty of people, and plenty of things that are enjoyable, aren't there? Are there no artists that you actually LIKE?

 

I went and heard my boss' husbands' rock band play last night at a benefit for Katrina which was also a battle of the bands. The only band that I liked well enough to ever go hear again was the band I came to hear in the first place, who are very good indeed. Did the rest of them "suck"? Well, actually, they were in tune and most of them were very well rehearsed. Some had good arrangements; they had good stage presence and were pretty good musicians, at least in that style. This one young lady played very nice bass lines in one band using a pick. So I wouldn't say they "sucked". I just didn't hear much imagination!

 

What did leave a great deal to be desired was the sound quality - it was a sea of mud, and you couldn't make out the lyrics to most of the songs! Nobody seemed to care, even the musicians. As long as it's loud, that's all that seems to matter. Now THAT royally blows!

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