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What is the essence of "suck'?


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CMDN said he didn't dislike Journey because they wre "corporate sellouts" or whatever, he said he hated them becaue they sucked. What is the foundation of that term for folks around here? Is it jokes who get up in front of folks and flail away at instruments they have little idea how to tune, let alone play? Is it virtuosos who play music much simpler than they are capable of because they can make a living that way? Is it a universal quality everyone recognizes or is it a matter of taste and therefore not an absolute quantity?

What do you think?

Always remember that you�re unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

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Not to be a Nit-Picker (haha), to be totally accurate, I said I didn't like Journey because...

 

I think...

 

they suck.

 

Which doesn't mean the band actually sucks... it means I don't care for it--it sucks, as far as I am concerned.

 

That seems to be the biggest problem here... sucking vs. rocking is totally subject to individual opinion.

 

So what's my standard for "sucking?"

 

Well, as far as I am concerned, anything that doesn't touch me/strike a nerve/engage my senses/feels ungenuine/etc is, by my personal definition, sucky.

 

And I handle that on a case-by-case basis.

\m/

Erik

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

--Sun Tzu

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I think its a matter of taste or lack of taste. In this case Im sure it means they dont like it. When someone can play a certain kind of material they tend to like it..and when a certain kind of material is beyone their capabilities they tend to dislike it and offer excuses saying the reason they cant play it is because it sucks and they simply dont want to try. OR.. they say difficult material has no feeling or passion or emotion, another excuse for not progressing in their playing skills. I can say this, there is not one guitar player on this forum that could stand on stage with Neil and trade chops with him..lick for lick including me! it takes alot of nerve to say a player of that stature sucks! I wonder if punks would think Johnnie Winter sucks?
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I agree with most everything said: "suck" refers to your opinion. I feel the Beatles suck, but I also still try to give them credit for being a popular band. To add to what ellwood said though, people tend to not like what they cant play, true to an extent, but it goes both ways. Many "advanced" players prolly don't like simpler music because, they just can't play it.
hot girls, fast cars, and even louder guitars
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Originally posted by revorhythm:

I agree with most everything said: "suck" refers to your opinion. I feel the Beatles suck, but I also still try to give them credit for being a popular band. To add to what ellwood said though, people tend to not like what they cant play, true to an extent, but it goes both ways. Many "advanced" players prolly don't like simpler music because, they just can't play it.

And you guys wanted an example...there it is! whats more punk than that?

"Many "advanced" players prolly don't like simpler music because, they just can't play it." You have got to be kidding..right? So you mean that advanced players can not play the things they played before they became advanced? HUH?

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Originally posted by revorhythm:

Many "advanced" players prolly don't like simpler music because, they just can't play it.

Call me crazy but that just sounds backwards to me. Advanced players that can't play _simple_ stuff? They may not want to, but I can't see a player that really is an advanced player not being able to play something simple. In my view, if you can't play something simple, you aren't advanced.

 

Are you confusing can't with won't?

Born on the Bayou

 

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Originally posted by LPCustom:

Originally posted by revorhythm:

Many "advanced" players prolly don't like simpler music because, they just can't play it.

Call me crazy but that just sounds backwards to me. Advanced players that can't play _simple_ stuff? They may not want to, but I can't see a player that really is an advanced player not being able to play something simple. In my view, if you can't play something simple, you aren't advanced.

 

LP..thats just a young players wishful thinking! He will get past it eventually.

 

Are you confusing can't with won't?

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'Suck' isn't used like that over here. For example:

 

'Nothing Sucks like an Electrolux' was taken at face value, but due to exposure to American soaps (some even good) we understand the inference. We might use cr*p or s**t instead, but I think Guitarzan hit the nail on the head.

 

Revorythm, if you think The Beatles suck, you need to get out more.

 

Geoff

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=738517&content=music

The Geoff - blame Caevan!!!

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Originally posted by LPCustom:

Originally posted by revorhythm:

Many "advanced" players prolly don't like simpler music because, they just can't play it.

Call me crazy but that just sounds backwards to me. Advanced players that can't play _simple_ stuff? They may not want to, but I can't see a player that really is an advanced player not being able to play something simple. In my view, if you can't play something simple, you aren't advanced.

 

Are you confusing can't with won't?

I'm with LP on this one, why would an advanced player have troubles with a basic piece?
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Well cant and wont may be interchangeable. Some may simply refuse to play simpler pieces, because they think they're better than that. What I was getting at is look at people who you may regard as "advanced". Do you really think they could play simpler stuff the way it was meant? I dread the thought of malmsteen or petrucci playin blues. Punk seems to be a genre getting a lot of crap recently. If Santana tried to play a punk song Id prolly shit a brick. Yes, technically they could play the notes, but not how they were meant to be played.

 

On a second note: Yes i think the Beatles suck, I could argue up and down about why, but I know no one will except why. And just on a side note believe me i get out.

hot girls, fast cars, and even louder guitars
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Ok fair enough! thats what you think. I bet your music would be superior to the trash the Beatles did, but I didnt notice any of your recordings posted on SoundClick or any MP3 sights? I would and I am sure others would love to hear your material, you know, by way of comparison. My junk is there for all to hear..not great I know but its there for critical comparisons.
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Originally posted by ellwood:

Ok fair enough! thats what you think. I bet your music would be superior to the trash the Beatles did, but I didnt notice any of your recordings posted on SoundClick or any MP3 sights? I would and I am sure others would love to hear your material, you know, by way of comparison. My junk is there for all to hear..not great I know but its there for critical comparisons.

I listened to your Purple Haze track today. Are you using the 335 on that? It sounds like it.
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Originally posted by KPB:

Originally posted by ellwood:

Ok fair enough! thats what you think. I bet your music would be superior to the trash the Beatles did, but I didnt notice any of your recordings posted on SoundClick or any MP3 sights? I would and I am sure others would love to hear your material, you know, by way of comparison. My junk is there for all to hear..not great I know but its there for critical comparisons.

I listened to your Purple Haze track today. Are you using the 335 on that? It sounds like it.
Close..it was the Gretch Country Gentleman..banjo back..you like the sound on that one? on the Papa new bag..is the 335
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Originally posted by ellwood:

Originally posted by KPB:

Originally posted by ellwood:

Ok fair enough! thats what you think. I bet your music would be superior to the trash the Beatles did, but I didnt notice any of your recordings posted on SoundClick or any MP3 sights? I would and I am sure others would love to hear your material, you know, by way of comparison. My junk is there for all to hear..not great I know but its there for critical comparisons.

I listened to your Purple Haze track today. Are you using the 335 on that? It sounds like it.
Close..it was the Gretch Country Gentleman..banjo back..you like the sound on that one? on the Papa new bag..is the 335
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Originally posted by KPB:

I thought it was a hollow body. Yeah, I liked the sound.

 

You got a James Brown tune on that site? Must've missed it. I'll check it out.

 

Ok, for my next guess, I'm saying you played your Tele on the Beatles tune. [/QUOT

Good guess bud...ya it was the Albert Collins Tele!! the Steppin Wolf is the American Strat

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Originally posted by ellwood:

Originally posted by KPB:

I thought it was a hollow body. Yeah, I liked the sound.

 

You got a James Brown tune on that site? Must've missed it. I'll check it out.

 

Ok, for my next guess, I'm saying you played your Tele on the Beatles tune. [/QUOT

Good guess bud...ya it was the Albert Collins Tele!! the Steppin Wolf is the American Strat

Born In Chicago..is the ES55S Lucille
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Originally posted by ellwood:

Originally posted by ellwood:

Originally posted by KPB:

I thought it was a hollow body. Yeah, I liked the sound.

 

You got a James Brown tune on that site? Must've missed it. I'll check it out.

 

Ok, for my next guess, I'm saying you played your Tele on the Beatles tune. [/QUOT

Good guess bud...ya it was the Albert Collins Tele!! the Steppin Wolf is the American Strat

Born In Chicago..is the ES355S Lucille
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I think what you are missing here revorhythm, is that an advanced player, more then likely, did start out with blues, punk etc. For an advanced player to play punk or blues, he only needs to go back to the stuff he started with.

 

Some people gravitate to one or two styles of music and then stay there. Others master a style and then move on to the next. It's not a "he's better then you" thing, it's just a personal preference.

 

A good example of this is how a lot of people start out with blues and then gravitate toward jazz once they get bored.

 

On another note, the Beatles music is amazingly complex, brilliantly written and phenomenally popular. You may not like them, but to make the statement that they suck is wrong. I hate Elvis, (let me stress HATE!), but I would never refuse to acknowledge his talent.

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Well i never denied the Beatles, in fact if i do remember i said i acknowledge their popularity. But how theyve become some guitar icon, is beyond me. I cant see any more talent in them, than in the Sex Pistols. Except the Pistols wrote more than petty love songs. They had a struggle a reason, whatd the Beatles have? They were they original boyband. I admit i do like some of their songs, but not enough to waste my hard earned money of any album, except maybe a compilation. Regarding Elvis, hell, i used to hate his stuff to, but it grew on me. More so the rockabilly genre grew on me, and well Elvis is the quintessential rockabilly player.
hot girls, fast cars, and even louder guitars
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Someone needs to give the Beatles another listen, and try to play through some of their material. "Here Comes The Sun", "Norwegian Wood", and "She's So Heavy" are by no means favorite tunes of mine, but are nontheless technically intricate and challenging, along with dozens more of their tunes. Sure, some of their songs are lame, but the same can be said of the Stones, Zep, Aerosmith, Steppenwolf, Santana, Clapton, or anyone else who's cranked out hit after hit. I'm not saying George Harrison stands shoulder to shoulder with the best of the best as a guitarist, but neither does Keith Richard IMHO, not that I wouldn't trade bank accounts with him. The Beatles brought much more to the table than long hair. They were the first, on a global scale, at least, to defy the Establishment and redefine the boundaries of far more than music. No previous celebrities had such a profound effect on entire generations. The Beatles made me want to become a musician, as they did many of us here. Even younger players need to know that rock music exists because some ground breaking movers and shakers carved a new niche to the chagrin and in defiance of the entertainment industry as it was then. Elvis, the Beach Boys, Bill Haley, etc. never gave it the momentum the Beatles did. Anyone who's ever played a rock gig owes the Beatles a respectful "thank you".
Never a DUH! moment! Well, almost never. OK, OK! Sometimes never!
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Originally posted by Warthog:

To me the "essence of suck" is Boston (the band, not the city)...

Boston may have been a one hit wonder, but what a great hit it was, still on the air today, well written, well produced, and VERY well played.
Never a DUH! moment! Well, almost never. OK, OK! Sometimes never!
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Originally posted by A String:

I'm with LP on this one, why would an advanced player have troubles with a basic piece?

For the same reason that you can always tell when a kiddie crayon drawing was done by a professional graphic artist or by a real three year old. Does that make any sense? Once you get to a certain skill level (at guitar or yachting or whatever) you lose a certain "innocence" or whatever the heck it is and you never get it back. It's a bit like the diff. between the first time you play a new song all the way to the finish and the 100th time you play it. The first time has a freshness which you lose over time.

 

For example, when I was younger I used to play everything as downstroke and thought that doing anything else was kind of poofy. I can never go back to that headspace, and I'll never play in as "garagey" a way again. I can play better now, but it's not the same thing, arguably.

 

I imagine it's a common problem.

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