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5 way comparison


LPCustom

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First, sorry for the very long post. :)

 

I ordered five guitars based on advice from people in this forum. I'm going to give one of them to my nephew for his birthday next Friday (30 Sep).

 

Four of the guitars I ordered arrived yesterday, the other (the Agile AS-820) just arrived about an hour ago.

 

What I looked at:

 

Epiphone Dot 335, Agile AS-820, Oscar Schmidt OE-30, Hamer Echotone, Ibanez Artcore AF-75

 

I would rank these guitar in overall construction in the following order:

1. Epiphone Dot 335 ($450)

2. Agile AS-820 ($260) /Ibanez Artcore AF-75 ($320)

4. Hamer Echotone ($300)

5. Oscar Schmidt OE-30 ($150)

 

(EDIT: Added prices)

 

First off I would like to say that the fit and finish on four of the guitars is very good.

 

The Oscar Schmidt OE-30 leaves a lot to be desired in the finish department. It has 7 blemishes at the junction between the body and the binding. The white trim on the f-holes is also very sloppy. The black finish is fairly well done but is a bit wavy.

 

The finish on the Ephiphone was blemish free and I could find no mismatches between the binding and the body. The surface is smooth and glassy. The hardware is uniform in its gold color and fairly lustrous. However the gold color is a bit too yellow (why I don't care for gold hardware).

 

The finish on the Ibanez AF-75 is superb. The inlays in the neck are nice and smooth. The edges of the frets are likewise very smooth. The binding joins to the body seamlessly and the finish smooth and glassy. The wood grain shows through beautifully and the fade to black is nicely done.

 

The finish on the Agile AS-820 is very good. It is smooth and glassy. There are not blemishes that I could find. The binding joint to the body is well done. I could find no rough spots.

 

The finish on the Hamer is likewise quite good. There was one small blemish on the treble side of the body next to the volume controls. The frets feel smooth on the side of the neck. The finish is mostly smooth but there was a small amount of waving on the back. The wood grain shows through beautifully on the sunburst. The fade to black is also nicely done. There was a single area in the binding that you could feel the edge on the treble horn.

 

Out of the box:

 

Rating the setup of these guitars out of the box:

 

1. Ibanez AF-75

2. Epiphone Dot 335

3. Hamer Echotone/Agile AS-820

5. Oscar Schmidt OE-30

 

The Ibanez was the best setup out of the box. All I had to do was tune it. The action was the right height and did not buzz. The neck had just a hint of relief and the intonation was dead on.

 

The Epihone buzzed a little out of the box. I raised the bass side of the bridge a little and the buzz went away. The action was still low enough to play well.

 

The Hamer Echotone and the Agile AS-820 both had intonation problems as well as a buzz in the 5th and 6th strings. I had to fix the intonation on string 3, 5 and 6 on the Hamer. I had to intonate strins 4 and 6 on the Agile. Raising the bridge a bit on the bass side got rid of the buzz on both guitars.

 

The Oscar Schmidt OE-30 had a terrible buzz out of the box on strings 5 and 6. I had to raise the action quite high on the bass side to stop the buzz. There is a neck adjustment but I have not used it. The neck does not have any relief and is perfectly straight. This contributes to the buzz problem. I need to tighten the truss rod a little to give it a little relief. The intonation was off on all 6 strings (some flat and some sharp). I managed to get it working right but it took about 30 minutes.

 

Clean Sound:

 

The Ibanez has by far the best sound of these guitars followed (oddly enough) by the Oscar Schmidt. The AF-75 has clear and crisp tones with a nice growl on the low end. The Oscar Schmidt also has fairly clear and crisp high end but had a bit too much of a round sound on the third string.

 

The Epiphone, Hamer and Agile were all a bit muddy. The Epiphone was a little brighter than the Hamer and Agile on neck pickup but was darker on the bridge position.

 

All five guitars have a nice twang with the AF-75 and OE-30 edging the others out slightly. The Epiphone has a nice fat low end that sounds clear and has a nice sustain. The Epiphone holds a sustain the best of the five with the Agile and the Ibanez right behind it. The Hamer and Oscar Schmidt do not have much sustain. But I expected this with the bolt on neck of the OE-30. I'm baffled by the Hamer, though.

 

The string definition was not that great on any of these guitars. The Ibanez is probably the best at that, though. Followed by the Oscar Schmidt, Epiphone and Agile. The Hamer again was not as good as expected. The OE-30 is rather surprising here.

 

Distorted:

 

The Ibanez AF-75 and Epiphone are tied for best sound with a mildly overdriven signal. The OE-30 sounds nearly as good as the AF-75 and the Dot 335. The Hamer and Agile are also very close here. Depending on the style of what you play and even what you play, each guitar has its strengths here and all about the same. I would rank these as I have shown based on how and what I play but this is a very subjective opinion.

 

I played all of these guitars on a Marshall Lead 12 (5005) combo made in 1985. It has all new (Marshall OEP) pots. It is a 12 watt solid state amp with a 10 inch Celestion driver.

 

My overall ratings of these guitars would go as:

 

1. Ibanez AF-75 / Epiphone Dot 335

2. Hamer Echotone / Agile AS-820

3. Oscar Schmidt OE-30

 

I am going to take both the Ibanez AF-75 and the Epiphone Dot 335 down to my nephew and let him choose which one he wants.

 

I am going to return the Hamer Echotone and the Agile AS-820. I am going to keep the Oscar Schmidt OE-30.

 

This was not an easy decision to make. There is not that much difference between the four top guitars listed above and my decision is very subjective. It's about what _I_ like. And what I think Brian will like.

 

Why keep the OE-30 you ask? Because it now plays well, was cheap and I like the sound. I seriously considered giving this guitar to Brian. But the problems with the finish might be perceived by him as the mark of a piece of junk. and while the finish it not very good. It's a surprisingly good guitar. Just not as good as the others. I am going to take it down with me and show him how well it plays. He might decide to take it. But that's his decision.

 

I posted this in hopes that someone would find it useful.

Born on the Bayou

 

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Originally posted by jackpine:

The next question is what was the price difference?

Good question. I should have listed that.

 

Epiphone Dot 335 - $450

Ibanez AF-75 - $320

Hamer Echotone - $300

Agile AS-820 - $260

Oscar Schmidt OE-30 $150

 

I just realized that my ratings pretty closely followed the price. I guess you really do get what you pay for most of the time. The Epiphone isn't that much (if any) better than the Ibanez in my view, though. So the Ibanez is probably a better value.

Born on the Bayou

 

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Great review. I'm betting the mail order places hope you aren't starting a trend here. But it is good to see such a large # of guitars together.

 

I've heard the OE 30s are really hit or miss. In the one I got the paint was very smooth, but the fake binding was sloppy in places. I would have kept it but I couldn't get one string to intonate and couldn't get the neck absolutely tight. Others have had great success.

 

Did you guy 5 sets of new strings for these before trying them? I know the stings on the OE 30 really stink.

Raise your children and spoil your grandchildren. Spoil your children and raise your grandchildren.
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Originally posted by caprae:

Did you guy 5 sets of new strings for these before trying them? I know the stings on the OE 30 really stink.

I restrung everything with Ernie Ball 11s except the Ibanez before playing them. I put a new set of Ernie Ball 11s on the Ibanez after I was done (it came with 11s -- the others came with 10s).

 

I also sprayed all of them with FingerEase.

 

I ended up keeping at least two guitars. Ordering all of them was the only way to be able to play all of them in the same environment on my own amp. I called all the local music stores but none of them had all of them. And some didn't have any of them. No local store had the Hamer Echotone.

 

The guitars I'm sending back are in better shape than when I got them. (all they'll have to do is tune them). If I send back the Ibanez it will be the only one that isn't in better shape after than before.

 

If my nephew doesn't pick the Ibanez, I'm tempted to keep that one, too.

 

I'm really preplexed about the Hamer. All the reviews I've found (well, two) have been good. I guess this one was just a bad one. The note on the VictorLitz web site did say that they had a batch of possibly returned guitars (open boxes, etc.).

 

I'm equally impressed with the sound of the Oscar Schmidt. Yes, the workmanship on the finish is crap. But the design and the electronics are good.

Born on the Bayou

 

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Originally posted by LPCustom:

...Ordering all of them was the only way to be able to play all of them in the same environment on my own amp. I called all the local music stores but none of them had all of them. And some didn't have any of them. No local store had the Hamer Echotone.

 

Isn't that the truth. Everyone, it seems, has Fender and Squire, maybe Ibanez, and then a smattering of other brands. Locally one only carries a couple of G&Ls (regular and Tribute), Schecter and Sammick so that is an interesting place to go to. Another has some Godins. Another has some Deans and Peaveys. I don't think any carry Jackson.
Raise your children and spoil your grandchildren. Spoil your children and raise your grandchildren.
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Originally posted by LPCustom:

"The neck does not have any relief and is perfectly straight. This contributes to the buzz problem. I need to tighten the truss rod a little to give it a little relief."

If the neck needs relief, the truss-rod must be loosened, so that the pull of the strings will slightly bow the neck.

 

The truss-rod counteracts the pull of the strings. Tightening straightens the neck, while loosening bows it.

 

If the neck is already arrow-straight, and the truss-rod is tightened, 'back-bow' will be introduced as the neck humps-up in the middle and serious frett-buzz and playability issues will result!

 

Very cool post and thread, by the way; interesting review of these axes!

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Originally posted by CaevanO'Shite:

Originally posted by LPCustom:

"The neck does not have any relief and is perfectly straight. This contributes to the buzz problem. I need to tighten the truss rod a little to give it a little relief."

If the neck needs relief, the truss-rod must be loosened, so that the pull of the strings will slightly bow the neck.

 

The truss-rod counteracts the pull of the strings. Tightening straightens the neck, while loosening bows it.

 

If the neck is already arrow-straight, and the truss-rod is tightened, 'back-bow' will be introduced as the neck humps-up in the middle and serious frett-buzz and playability issues will result!

 

Very cool post and thread, by the way; interesting review of these axes!

Yup, you're right. My mistake. The neck without the strings actually has a slight back bow already. It goes perfectly flat when you put strings on it. I'll probably loosen that a bit this evening.

Born on the Bayou

 

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Originally posted by caprae:

Locally one only carries a couple of G&Ls (regular and Tribute), Schecter and Sammick so that is an interesting place to go to. Another has some Godins. Another has some Deans and Peaveys. I don't think any carry Jackson.

My friend Wallace Reed carries PRS, Taylor, Fender, Squier and Schecter. He used to carry Gibson but I think they raised their dealer fees again so he dropped them. I think he still carries Ovation, too. But I mainly go there for strings, cables and stuff. There's a GC only 1/2 mile from his store anyway (right down Pleasant Hill Rd).

 

He also carries Samicks branded as "New York Pro". They have a 335 copy that looks and plays really sweet. But they only have it in Transparent Cherry Red. And Brian does not like red (don't know why). I've played that Samick. Wallace had already set it up so I don't know what it's like out of the box. He sells them for $379. But he's usually willing to deal with you.

 

The finish on the guitar is excellent (transparent cherry red with yellow binding and nickel hardware). It plays absolutely great. The neck is nice and fast and the action is low with not even a hint of buzz. The pickups sound good, too. Nice and twangy with a full bottom end. Good string definition. I played it on one of Wallaces Fender 212s. The sound is nice and bright on the neck pickup. The bridge pickup was a little too dark for my taste, though. Even with the treble and mid on the amp cranked and the tone cranked on the guitar.

 

Samick also makes a pretty good clone of the Les Paul and the SG as well. Wallace carries both of those. He also has a few used Gibsons. He's just not a dealer so he doesn't have any new ones.

Born on the Bayou

 

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Just so y'know, LPCustom, I kinda figured it was more or less a 'typo'; I'm always catching myself with my thinking-hat on backwards when I look over something I'm about to post, or already posted, typing something different from what I mean or know.

 

I wasn't so much trying to correct you or point out a mistake, as I was meaning to keep a tiny bit of mis-information from blooming further on the 'net. I mean, the internet is swimming with mis- and dis-information, to make an understatement! I was pretty sure you knew what you meant, having played for years, even professionally, as you have...

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Caevan and LP: I actually had that backwards until just recently. One of my guitars had a slight buzz and I was thinking right-->tight as in tightening the string of a bow pulls the two ends closer or bows the bow more. My kids looked at me like I was an idiot (ea, that happens all the time when you have teenagers) and likened it to a baby who tightens up gets stiff and straight. I ended up putting reverse relief in it until I realized my mistake.
Raise your children and spoil your grandchildren. Spoil your children and raise your grandchildren.
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As a follow up, I presented the Ibanez AF-75, the Epiphone Dot 335 to my nephew Brian last night (on his birthday) so he could choose which one he wanted. I also showed him the Oscar Schmidt OE-30.

 

His first comment about the OE-30 was the that the details on the finish were crap. He's right. But he also said he liked the guitar.

 

His mom has been giving him lessons (she was a music major) and plays several instruments including the guitar.

 

He fiddled with the Ibanez, the Epiphone and the OS for a while and said he wanted the OE-30. I asked him why and he said because he wouldn't be afraid to mess it up. (Wrong reason, I thought -- he's 13, now).

 

So, I said that he should pick one based on what it sounded like and how it felt to play. He played with them all again and then _still_ chose the OE-30. I asked again why he chose that one and he said because it's lighter than the other two and the action feels better.

 

I told him he couldn't have that one. I just wanted him to see how a cheap guitar could be made to play well. So, then he chose the Ibanez.

 

I've decided I'm going to keep the Epiphone Dot for myself, anyway. Now I've got three semi-hollow body guitars (Gibson ES-335, Oscar Schmidt OE-30, Epiphone Dot 335). I really must say I was tempted to keep the Agile AS-820 as well. (G.A.S. can be a terrible burden... :D )

 

My wife isn't happy about me adding three more guitars lately (the OE-30, the Epiphone Dot and the Fender Showmaster Blackout). My musical stuff already owns one room of our house...

 

I think Brian has a nice guitar to learn on that will last him a long time. I also gave him an old Marshall Lead 12 (5005) combo amplifier I had. It was still in the box when I found it up in the attic. So it's practically new.

 

It's a 12 watt solid state combo amp with a 10 inch Celestion G10D-25 driver. It's a combo made from combining the 3005 head and one cabinet from the Marshall Lead 12 Mini Stack. Billy Gibbons has one of these (the combo) that he uses as a practice amp. I figure if it's good enough for Billy Gibbons, it's good enough for Brian.

Born on the Bayou

 

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Caevan, yes, I've heard the horror stories. When the tech adjusted it back he said he he has had some that he has had to weight down with bricks in order to get the correct curvature back into them. I never have gone beyond what felt like the stopping point when trying to adjust them. I know better now.

 

LP: thanks for the follow up. As others have said, you have one fortunate nephew. Sounds like he is pretty humble about the whole thing. That's great.

Raise your children and spoil your grandchildren. Spoil your children and raise your grandchildren.
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