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fender strat and p90


doe3

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hi folks

 

1st. sorry about my english, i'm austrian and native german speaking

 

i always want to build a guitar by myself

now i want to know your opinion about this

 

through ebay i got myself a japaniese fender strat body and a tokai brezzysound neck for very less money.

at home i have already 3 p90 (1 dimazio, 2 seymores)

so i thought i will place these 3 into the strat and use the 5way switch to control it.

(i don't want strat singlecoils because i dont like strat sound)

i know that p90 have very blusie sound but i'm not sure if this combination will sound good, do a strat go along with p 90ies

let me know what you think about this

 

 

just for some background information

this is my gear:

 

hagström deluxe '61,

hagström III '69,

fender tele usa '78 (minihb,sc)

fender tele mex '96,

vox phantom, '68

vox teartrop mk VI '67,

 

thanx

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Hey, welcome to the forum! Glad to have you onboard, doe3. :cool:

 

I must inform you, that you can not put those P-90's in that Strat; you must send them directly to me immediately, understand? ;):D:thu:

 

Sorry, I had to say something stupid like that!

 

I love, love, LOVE P-90 pickups! People often refer to them as "soapbars", and sometimes as "dog-ears" (if they have the triangular "ear"-flanges on either side for mounting brackets), just so you know what is meant by that if you come across those terms. (If you already knew that, I oppologize!)

 

As I was saying, I love P-90's, I have one guitar with a pair of them, and I plan to get more. I have always wanted a triple-P-90 equipped guitar- I have strongly considered adding a "middle"-pickup to the aforementioned axe- I strongly suspect that a trio of "soapbars" would be absolute tonal Heaven. Especially with an option of running all three simultaneously, in parallel! (I know for a fact that three single-coils, all on in parallel, DOES sound incredible!!)

 

When you first begin wiring them, leave ALL of their length of wire un-cut, so that you'll have plenty of allowance for changing your mind about the positions assigned to each of them.

 

I would advise you to determine which of the three sounds the strongest and fullest, and designate that one to be in the bridge-position.

 

I would then determine which one of the remaining two sounds the clearest, cleanest, and thinnest, and designate that one to the neck-position.

 

Hmmmnn... ?? ...where to put that remaining pickup... ;)

 

Three-pickup guitars, in particular those with longer scale-lengths (like a Strat's), can have a strange disparity between the perceived output-strength of the bridge-pickup, and that of the neck and middle pickups, the bridge-pickup sometimes sounding weak by comparison.

 

And P-90's can sometimes exaggerate the sound of their respective positions a bit, such as the neck-position sometimes sounding somewhat overly loud and bassy, even "muddy", while a bridge-position P-90 in that same guitar may sound a bit anemic and thin in comparison, and may tend to be dominated by the neck-pickup when both are selected.

 

I've had just such a situation with my guitar, and on that one, I at least have a volume-control for each pickup. But on your Strat, you probably won't have individual volume-knobs for each pickup. And add to that the longer scale-length of a Strat, and one more pickup, and you want to "hedge your bet" and have as much advantage in your favor for a good balance to begin with, right?

 

That's why I recommend trying out all three in consideration of their respective tones and output-strengths, with their positions in mind.

 

What specific models are these two Seymour Duncans and that one Dimarzio?

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon3.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif OH- another thing to check is the string-spacing on these pickups, and that of the bridge and neck on the Strat! That is, whether or not the pole-pieces of the P-90's will lign-up nicely beneath their respective strings.

 

A P-90 has a bar-magnet laying in the very bottom of its assembly (very often a pair of them, actually, and their respective polarity and orientation is CRUCIAL, if they get switched around wrong they will strangle the output until they're set right again), beneath the coils, with its machine-screw pole-pieces being threaded into these magnets to temporarily magnetize them by contact.

 

A Strat's pickups have individual (and very strong, in comparison) magnetic-"slug" pole-pieces, pointed directly at their respective strings.

 

The P-90's will work and sound their best if the strings lign-up and pass directly over their respective screw pole-pieces; a given string will sound weaker, the further it is out of alignment with its respective pole-piece.

 

(Dave Wendler posted some excellent information regarding P-90's and their magnets and screw-type pole-pieces; when I've found that post, I'll return to edit this post with a copy and paste it in here with full credit to him... )

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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the soaps are Di Marzio DP 209 and Seymore Duncan SSP90-3 N,

i always wanted to put a guitar together which is not what i can get next doors.

i also ad an "Onboard Vintage Tube Screamer Booster" by guitarfetish.com which is build on a potentiometer. will see what this will do.

i have to look for some connection diagram in the internet, because i'd like give each pickup its own volume, i don't need tone controls, never use them, but maybe i'll dig some extra space for electronic inside the body, we'll see, this guitar is made to tinker.

 

i have some rare guitars where i don't change anything, i'm just take them as they are. i never even think about it to make any changes on them.

thats why i'm really looking forward to put this paddle together

thanks for your information

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I would think the 250k, though it's somewhat subjective; and the different pickups you have, and their positions, may come into play.

 

A 250k volume-pot will give you a slightly warmer, more "Gibson-esque" kind of tone.

 

I think that being as these P-90's are strong single-coil pickups, and the Strat's longer scale-length will add a crisp brightness to the total tonal recipe, 250k will likely be the better pot-value to go with here.

 

If it sounds like you need brighter treble-response, go with the 500k-pot.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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There's another issue to consider with the pots. Since you are using P90s and they "usually" are hooked to 500K ohm pots you might consider going with those. Especially since when you set the selector to position 2 or 4 you are paralleling the pickups and the pots which would yield an effective impedance of 250K ohms rather than 500K.

 

It really depends on how you wire it. Are you going to drop the tone pots and just use three volume pots? If you do that you may need to rethink the whole circuit. You may need to try to isolate each pickup/pot assembly from the amp feed.

 

Fender also makes 1Meg ohm pots, now for their noiseless pickups. P-90s are already quieter than Fender style single coils. And they might sound better with the 1Meg pots.

 

You should probably talk to an EE to figure how best to set that up.

Born on the Bayou

 

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Caevan, P-90s have two bar magnets of the same sort found in the bottom of a humbucker. They lie flat, with like poles aimed together in the center right up against the bottom ends of the screws that act as pole pieces. When Gibson introduced the humbucker in 1957 they had lots of P-90 parts on hand and used one bar magnet in the middle with pole pieces on each side of it.

 

I'm sure P-90s can be made to work in a Strat, but it'll take some experimentation to get it just right. They have a different outline than Fender single coils or standard humbuckers, though there are humbuckers made in P-90 shape and vice versa.

 

P-90s are quite "hot" pickups, and they're much more sensitive to picking up hum than Fender single coils.

 

I love P-90s!

"A cheerful heart is good medicine."
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Originally posted by Ricochet:

P-90s are quite "hot" pickups, and they're much more sensitive to picking up hum than Fender single coils.

Thanks, Ricochet. I stand corrected. I thought P-90s rejected hum better than Fender single coils. Ya' learn something new every day. :D

Born on the Bayou

 

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yum yum p90 hum.

i can give you a little info on the seymour duncan sp90 3. that is what my LG has and i would say it is fairly warm sounding. a 250 k may not give you the highs you want but that is all depending on the actual placement of the pickup. my guitar has 24 frets and the neck pickup is closer to the bridge than on a 22 fret guitar. i find the sp90 3's to be fairly hot. but i haven't played a lot of other p90 axes.

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Originally posted by Gruupi:

I have read about P-90's for years but am not really familiar with the sound. Can anyone name some classic P-90 songs or players so I can get an idea what they are supposed to sound like?

DINOSAUR JR for starters...

J Freakin Mascis is the king of Jazzmasters and P90s as far as i'm concerned...

and people always mention the bands: Television-Elvis Costello-Sonic Youth-My Bloody Valentine...

i too love that sound :love:

s :cool:

AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER
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Originally posted by stanner:

Originally posted by Gruupi:

I have read about P-90's for years but am not really familiar with the sound. Can anyone name some classic P-90 songs or players so I can get an idea what they are supposed to sound like?

DINOSAUR JR for starters...

J Freakin Mascis is the king of Jazzmasters and P90s as far as i'm concerned...

and people always mention the bands: Television-Elvis Costello-Sonic Youth-My Bloody Valentine...

i too love that sound :love:

s :cool:

Then there're classic examples like the early recordings of Chuck Berry (he played P-90 equiped axes before he got his humbuckered-ones) and Leslie West, of Mountain. (I think that Leslie was a Marshall guy.)

 

George Thoroughgood (Sp?) also plays guitars with P-90's, into cranked "tweed" Fender Bassman 4x10 combos.

 

P-90's also are magic at conjuring Keith Richards-type tones, even though he himself has done little or no recording with them, as far as I know!

 

And our good friend Lee Flier plays her '52 Les Paul most of the time, with its original "soapbars".

 

I'm nobody, but... clonk on my signature, and you'll hear a snippett of me playing a P-90 equipped axe, both clean and overdriven.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Originally posted by CaevanO'Shite:

...[i'm nobody, but... clonk on my signature, and you'll hear a snippett of me playing a P-90 equipped axe, both clean and overdriven. [/QB]

damn that is schweet...

that sounds like a cut from somebody on Loopers Delight

:)

is that clean playing on a loop? if so how'd ya do it?

s :cool:

AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER
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(Didn't mean to highjack the thread!)

 

Hey, Stanner, thanks!

 

I haven't posted anything on the LD 'site or anything, though I have read a lot on there; great 'site!

 

James_Italy (remember him?) has been supercool and hosted my little mp3-blurb's URL for me for a while now.

 

I suppose that it would be easy to do that live with a good looper-device, as the repeating arpeggiated crystal-clean part is a pretty short figure. (FWIW, both parts, clean and overdriven, are "fingerstyle", no picks, in Open-D, D-A-D-F#-A-D, low-to-high.)

 

But I just recorded a track "direct" onto my PC, and then laid down the "lead"-bit over it, printing all effects "live" in real-time as I played 'em, without any "post" tweaking or anything.

 

There are things about it that make me cringe, but those P-90 tones are pretty good if I say so myself, and there's just something about it that I like!

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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