Fender "Evil Twin" Tube Question

[BriBaby]

Not sure if I should post this in the ask Miles

thread, but anywho........

 

I was at the local open mike night the other week, and got into a conversation with an out of towner about my amp. It's the red knob Fender "The Twin", also known as the "Evil Twin".

 

http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/twin_redknob_88f.jpg

 

I bought it used in the mid 80's if memory serves me well tonight. He said that I could put in EL34's instead of the 6L6GC's. He wasn't sure if it would require yellow jackets. What are those anyway, like an electrical adapter that lets you plug in 3 prong electronics to two prong outlets?

 

Any info from all you cats would be appreciated. I tried to Google it, but you know how that goes......

[Caevan O’Shite]

Hey, I used to have one of those "red-knob" Fender "The Twin" amps! My first "real" amp, not counting a "silverface" Champ, certainly my first big high-powered tube-amp! I think they've gotten a bad rap, they're actually pretty cool amps, with a $h!tload of bells-and-whistles. I loved the impedance selector, power options, external bias and balance test-points and trim-pots, wild input scheme, vast array of pull-functions on the controls, variable-level effects-loop, channel-switching, channel-selectable reverb...

 

Not to mention the fact that I never had the slightest trouble keeping up with any other instruments, amps, etc....

 

For 6L6's, try a matched quartet or duet of N.O.S. Sylvania "STR" ("Special Tube Request"-design) bottles if you can find 'em, they perform very strongly in that amp! (Yeah, that should be no surprise, but I'm speaking from direct experience with a "red knob" Twin and a quartet of Phillips 6L6 STR's of the same persuasion; it sounded better than when new in the store with those, as if it had been "modded" somehow!)

 

Anyways...

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif Those Yellow Jackets from THD (same folks that make the Univalve, Bivalve, and Flexi amps, and Hot Plate attenuators) are adapters for using EL84's, as found in most Vox, Matchless, and Bad Cat amps, -NOT- EL34's, as often found in Marshalls.

 

Anyways, a set of them should very easily pop right in to your "red-knob" Twin with no modification or adjustment of any kind necessary, as long as your amp is in good health and correctly biased for its 6L6 quartet to begin with. The adapters built-in to their bases convert the amp from grid-biased, Class-A/B operation to cathode-biased (sort of automatic self-biasing), Class-A push-pull operation, at reduced output-power, to boot.

 

I'd imagine that you could elect to use a duet of the Yellow Jackets (instead of all four of the sockets in your amp) if you wanted, and I also think it would be perfectly fine to use your amp's low-power switch to further reduce overall output to introduce the spongiest, saggiest vintage-y feel possible from that 85# 2x12 monster.

 

Now, if you wanted to replace your 6L6's with EL34's, you'd need to do some wiring and component modifications, as well as biasing for the new tubes; nothing too radical, but they won't simply pop in with only the flip of a switch.

 

Just in case you haven't discovered this on your own, or already read of it elsewhere, you can get a great sounding boost by simply sticking your particular amp's effects-loop level-switch in-between settings, not unlike the way you can stick a vintage-Strat's 3-way switch in-between settings for the popular "out-of-phase" pickup combinations. I used to do it with my "red-knob" Twin, and no less than Bruce Zinky, formerly of the Fender Custom Amp Shop and the designer of the fabulous Vibro King 3x10, has gone on-record as an advocate of this simple trick for "The Twin". It really brings out a more robust vintage "blackface" character in the amp's first/"clean/rhythm" channel, and it sounds great to run the amp this way with a guitar plugged into one of the "parallel"-inputs with both channels operating and the low-power switch engaged. You get the overdrive and distortion of the second/"lead"-channel with the added kick and attack of the first channel; sounds cool!

 

For the opposite effect, try putting a good quality 12AT7, 12AY7, or even a 12AU7 in the first preamp-tube socket, to reduce front-end gain and net greater dynamic range and clean headroom. Clean, clean, clean! (Yeah, that's fairly common and well-known and easily done on just about any amp, not just yours, but I bring it up because I actually did the same thing on mine years ago.)

[BriBaby]

A wealth of information Mr. O'shite. I am printing it out to save with my other manuals and schematic for the beast.

 

I had never heard of the effects loop switch trick. Does that work even if I don't use the loop? I tried using the loop a few times but always went back to the front end thing, it just didn't sound right. I am stoked to try it before tonights gig. Right now it is residing in my trunk after last weeks two day outdoor gig, awaiting this weekends two night house gig return.

 

So, let me see if I got this through my thick head. To put in the EL84's, I would need yellow jackets. I would not have to rebias. I could just use the middle two sockets and use the low setting on the amp (which I normally run anyway).

If that is true, then could I leave in the 6L6's on the outside? Could I run that in the high watt setting to light up both the 6L6's and EL84's? I wonder what kind of sound that would produce.

 

Thanks for your informative reply as always. It's cool to talk to someone with a brain that used to own one.

[Darklava]

We did a outdoor show one time and this guy had two of those he let the bands use,and I'll tell ya

they sound great just the way they are.If ever I

have a chance to by one I'm gettin it, these are

sweet amps,they get that throaty marshall sound

that just screams.I can't stand EL84 tubes

[Caevan O’Shite]

Hey, do you mean I used to own half a brain? Naaa, just a quarter-brain! Say... you might look out for a "red-knob" Dual Showman head, they were essentially the same as The Twin in head-form, and many had a damping-switch instead of the reverb/channel select (the earlier ones didn't have any reverb, anyways). I believe that they later went to a "red-knob" Dual Showman with reverb. The "damping" affected the tightness or looseness of the output-section, for a sort of a modern/vintage feel-switch. I bet you could scare up a "red-knob" Dual Showman head for low dough, bro'! And then you could put it with the cab 'n' speakers of your choice, with a good reverb and/or delay in its effects-loop...

[BriBaby]

Great information again Mr. O'Shite, my printer is humming away as I type. I'm getting a little giddy to try some of this out, I will be trying the effects loop trick tonight. I am going to have to get through my property taxes (Shylocks) before I investigate the yellow jacket/EL84 combo. Can't wait!

 

Ha Ha, the back panel on mine has had a crease in the middle almost for as long as I have owned it. Where did you find replacements for it?

 

Darklava, come on down to Lansing and you can play through mine any Friday or Saturday. The Amber Bock is on me.

[Caevan O’Shite]

I just got back-panels from the shop where I had bought mine new; Ithaca Guitar Works, Ithaca, NY (US), an authorized Fender dealer. If Fender still has 'em, any authorized dealer or rep should be able to get 'em. That is, IF they're to be had from Fender at all anymore now, that particular amp's been put of production for some time now.

 

Now I'm Jonseing for a "red-knob" Twin, and a Pro Sonic!

 

You might find some of the following to be of interest; sorry for some redundency, I didn't take the time to really edit it with relevence to this thread:

 

(As posted 02-07-2004 on the "one amp two purpose"-thread)

 

Many very good recommendations have been made here!

 

How much do you really want to spend?

 

You could probably find a really good deal on a late '80s/early '90s "red knob" fender Twin; more correctly, a Fender "The Twin", and some later production runs used the same knobs, but in a dark grey.

 

http://dannymarx.com/89fenderthetwin.jpg

A quirky, "Love it/Hate it" sorta amp...

(I used to own one; sold it in a bind...)

 

Buyer beware! many of these amps have suffered wear and tear and abuse; and the "red knob" Twins didn't hold up to that as well as their forebearers. Be sure that your's is in good repair, should you go that route.

 

That being said...

 

If you find one in good shape, put good tubes in it, and give it a loving, caring home, a "red knob" twin would probably serve your jazz/fusion needs very well.

 

In any case, it was definitely a schizzophrenic channel-switching amp, with a $h!tload of bells 'n' whistles. Very LOUD and clear! Although it also had several power-reduction options. I relly do believe that this would be a great amp for both the jazz- and (especially) fusion-minded.

 

The "clean/rhythm" channel is pretty much classic fender twin, with some added functional features. It could be made a little more "growly" and "blackface" in nature by nudging the rear-panel's effects loop level switch in-between settings (a "mod" recommended and approved of by none other than Bruce Zinky, designer of the Fender Vibro King, Tone Master, and Dual Professional amps!).

 

The "lead" channel provided plenty of gain; you probably wouldn't use it all. Plenty of boost-functions; and the key to bending it to your personal tastes lies in finding the interactive "sweet-spots" in its controls for gain, volume, and- most importantly- the bandpass-/shelf- filtering "presence".

 

This presence control is in itself double-minded; fairly the same results as the presence control on many previuos fenders, most notably the "blond" and "brown" models transitional between the "tweed" and "tolex" eras. Untill you pull-out on the knob; then, it functions as a "contouring" type of "mid-shift" control, heavily "scooping" mids when turned completely counter-clockwise, and giving up a decided "honk" when cranked up.

 

You can play through both channels simultaneously, just by plugging-in to the "parallel" input-jack in the front panel. Some really cool sounds can be had this way!

 

A very starnge quirk was the way that these amps lose a tad of the gain on the lead-channel when the footswitch is plugged in. Weird!

 

It's worth noting that Robben Ford still has, and uses, two of these "red knobs Twins", as well as his other, more celebrated amps.

 

From Danny Marx's Fender "The Twin" aka The Red Knob Twin 'page:

 

Robben Ford's Stock "The Twin"s

 

I've been informed by a number of people who have discussed the Red Knob Twin with Robben Ford that he owns two of them and that they are stock. To further establish this point, Rick Lunetta emailed me on 2/12/03 with the following information and has permitted me to post it on this page. - DM

 

I attended the Robben Ford Master Class (clinic) at Ojai, California on February 8, 2003, and had the opportunity to ask Robben about his red-knob "The Twin" amps. He specifically and clearly answered my question to him about whether his Twins had been modified in any way by Alexander Dumble or by anyone else.

 

His answer was, "No." They are completely stock and always have been. He has never had any modifications done to them whatsoever. He couldn't have been more clear about it. There are 24 other witnesses to Robben's statements as this discussion was held openly during the class in front of 25 attendees.

 

You might want to clear this controversy up in your web page. Both of Robben's "The Twin" amps are completely stock and have never been modified in any way according to Robben. - Rick Lunetta

 

I, personally, have to wonder if the "red knob" amps alluded to above were Robben's personal "The Twins"; they are very commonly rented for such uses as famous-player seminars and the like.

 

As for the decidedly pricier Tone King Comet and Meteor models, I love them! But, you might like them for your uses *if* the idea of a really GOOD "blackface" Deluxe on steroids and a really GOOD "tweed" Deluxe on steroids in one (beautiful) cabinet appeals to you.

 

Their 40-watt versions would better suit your stated needs, I'd think.

 

Just because they're sooo FINE... I'll include the following pics. (Tube-amp pone-ogripheh!)

 

http://www.loncohen.com/pix/images2/01tonekingcomet40.jpg

Tone King Comet

 

http://www.toneking.com/products/meteor200x182.jpg

Tone King Meteor

 

One last thing- among of these amps, both the "red knob" Twins and the Tone King Meteors allow for very easy biasing of the output-tubes with a Digital Multi-Meter (DMM). The Tone King Meteor even has built-in gauges for this; I don't think that a DMM is even required!

[stanner]

the truth will set you free!

what a lotta good info!

i have a bunch of these 'redknob' Fenders-twins-showman heads-dual showman heads...i luv em all.

somebody told me they were "over engineered" by Fender but were NOT done by Paul Rivera so most guitar guys didnt wanna deal w/ all the bells and whistles, but if you take the time to tweak these properly they are great amps...

and i used to have a bunch of info on the fact that these amps are NOT the ones known as the 'evilTwin'. that was a different amp from the redknobs...135 Watts of shite...

staninsanfran

[BlueZet]

I had one years ago, sold it because it was too heavy to carry up the stairs to my 3rd floor appartment, but no complaints about the sound!

 

darklave, where'd you get that guitar holder? I WANT ONE TOO!!

[Caevan O’Shite]

Originally posted by stanner:

"...these amps are NOT the ones known as the 'evilTwin'. that was a different amp from the redknobs...135 Watts of shite... "

staninsanfran

Well, Fender later ('95) had a channel-switching Twin Amp model that looked pretty much like a "blackface" with a lot of knobs; it was an entirely different amp- the '87-'94 "red knob" amps were pretty unique in the Fender lineage- although it did share a number of features with the red-knobbed "The Twin".

 

In Fender's promotional ad-copy it was referred to as "the Evil Twin".

 

Is the 135-watt Twin you refer to that aluminum-framed black-grilled "Super Twin" made in the '70s ('75-'80), Stanner?

[BriBaby]

Hey just checking back in. Thanks for the great info Mr O'Shite (or should I say Mudbone?). I am printing and saving it all for future refefence.

[Darklava]

Look what i found on google.Well i got me one

and i'll tell ya this amp does it all from SRV

to VH,and with two 2x12 cabs this thing screams.

Thanks Funkjazz and Caevan O'Shite the amp guru

[Caevan O’Shite]

Hey, DL! How ya making out with that head and those cabs?

[BadLife]

Strange several of those just showed up used in diffrent stores here. Guitar Center has one, I think they wanted $420 for it. I was not sure when they made them but they are all tube which got my attention I almost grabed one, but as it is used and all did not feel like having to have it serviced. I always wanted a Twin but got a Ampeg VT-22 instead. I still have it talk about a heavy amp.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Like I just said on another thread here, I predict a gradual little "red-knob" revival...

[BadLife]

Is a Fender Super Twin the so called "Evil Twin" they have one at Guitar Center. It has 6 power tubes which should put it at about 130 watts? They want $499 for it. There is also one at another place called Guitar Boy for about the same price. When did Fender make these?

[Caevan O’Shite]

As far as Fender's literature and promotional ad-copy goes, the nick-name "Evil Twin" applied to the channel-switching '95 Twin-Amp, the cosmetically "blackface" styled, feature-laden successor to the '87-'94 "red knob" 'The Twin'. (They have similar features and control-panels, especially on the back-panel, but they're definitely different amps.)

 

The 6x6L6, 130 watts or so 'Super Twin', with a master-volume and an aluminum-trimmed black grille-cloth, was a model made by CBS-era Fender in the mid/late '70s. It does not have a particularly good reputation with most players; note Stanner's desription above, "135 Watts of shite...", and a Guitar Player-magazine review that remarked that its built-in overdrive sounded like it was powered by penlight batteries. You should try them and make your own judgement on them, though.

[Darklava]

The red knob called The Twin like Caevan said

is a great amp,i'm running mine through two

2x12 cabs one is a mesa 3/4 open back stacked on

top of a 2x12 marshall closed back with celestions

running on 25 watts just screams.I find it hard to believe this is 25 watts,i've yet to try it on 100 watts.With the strat that has Texas specials,

on the clean channel with the treble boost nails

the SRV clean.On the dirt channel with the les paul think Marshall not high gain but AC/DC cranked.This is one of the loudest amps i've ever played,and the reverb although it hums a little

is the best reverb that i've heard.

 

The DC-5 is now the back up thats how cool this amp is and i'm still not done dialing in tones

with it.This was a combo turned into a head just in case anybody was wondering if i was playin through 6 twelves

[Dr. Ellwood]

"On the dirt channel with the les paul think Marshall not high gain but AC/DC cranked"

 

MOST fav. driven tone! my favorite setting,gritty,sweet smoothness but still sounds like a guitar and NOT a flaming blaze of MUD!!

[Caevan O’Shite]

You can get some cool high-gain tones out of a "red-knob" The Twin with (clock-face positions)

 

the pre/gain at about 3:30 to 4:45,

 

Treble (pulled for treb-boost) 2:00,

 

Mid (maybe or maybe not pulled for mid-boost, depending on guitar) 10:30,

 

Bass (pulled for bass-boost) 11:00 to 1:30,

 

Presence (pulled for "Notch") 7:30 to 8:45,

 

Master Volume where you can still deal with the decibels,

 

Power setting on Low,

 

Effects-Loop level-selector switch stuck "in-between" settings (with nothing at all in the 'loop) for an additional overall gain 'n' guts boost (Bruce Zinky, designer of the Fender Vibro King and Tone Master, The Little Smoky, and his own "Blue Velvet" amps, recommends this modless mod, so it must be O.K. and safe to do!)

 

with just a bit of Reverb.

 

Try the parallel channel input with the clean/rhythm channel just mixed in low to taste, as well. Experiment with the reverb being asigned to one, the other, or both channels.

 

These settings were with the stock speakers and 2x12-combo configuration, so a lot of variation may be necesary with other cabs and speakers...

 

These settings are also from memory from use DECADES ago, so I may have mis-remembered my use of some of the tone-controls Pull-Boost functions, too...

[Darklava]

Saved that one too,i'll try that one tonight

thanks man.

[Caevan O’Shite]

FWIW, I used the above settings with an active EMG 85 humbucker at the bridge, and SA single-coil sized at the neck and middle; mostly the bridge humbucker by itself.

 

Sometimes with a T.C. Electronics Chorus/Flanger and some echo/delay in the effects-loop (with the fx-loop's level selector-switch set appropriately, NOT using the in-between 'boost' trick).

 

Speaking of that trick, it also makes the clean/rhythm channel mo' vintage-y pre-C.B.S. "blackface" sounding...

 

- AND -

 

If you don't already have one, get a good Digital Multi Meter and follow the directions on the back-panel to a "T", to use the test-points and trim-pots to set the bias and balance of the output-tubes; it's a great feature!

[Darklava]

I went on that one link you posted and sure

seems like they had a few problems with this amp, hope this thing holds up for awhile.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Just treat it maybe a little extra carefully when you move it around anywhere, its printed circuit boards and solder-joints seem to be a little more easily traumatized than most; it weighs over 85 pounds (in original combo-amp form), so if it gets dropped or banged around, it's no little flouncin' about, get me? When it goes bang, it BANGS! Really baby it.

 

I had to replace a large resistor in mine once, and I also found and repaired a bad solder-joint and a very short lead on a cap that had barely made it into the solder and was increasingly intermittant in its connection. If I come across the schematics and lay-out for it (I think I've still got 'em somewhere), I'll let you know exactly which, what, and where, as I yellow-highlighted 'em at the time.

 

The lo-z out (the one on the back that looks like a mic jack) can sound pretty good, if you feed it through a Hughs & Kettner Red Box or similar compensating D/I box before the PA.

[Funk Jazz]

Originally posted by Darklava:

I went on that one link you posted and sure

seems like they had a few problems with this amp, hope this thing holds up for awhile.

i played a shitload of gigs on that thing - never had a single problem other than the cheeZee input jacks are easy to break.

 

BTW i can't find those red knobs anywhere - we moved last august and i must have packed them pretty good

 

i was bummed after we made the deal and i played through it for the last time.

[Caevan O’Shite]

I was like that when I sold mine, too!

 

Real love/hate thing with mine; I think I'll have to have another one someday, not as a main amp, but to have alongside me for those times when it's "just right" and nothing else will quite nail what it'll do...

[Darklava]

Originally posted by FunkJazz:

Originally posted by Darklava:

I went on that one link you posted and sure

seems like they had a few problems with this amp, hope this thing holds up for awhile.

i played a shitload of gigs on that thing - never had a single problem other than the cheeZee input jacks are easy to break.

 

BTW i can't find those red knobs anywhere - we moved last august and i must have packed them pretty good

 

i was bummed after we made the deal and i played through it for the last time.

It ain't nuttin but a chicken wing jazz

[BriBaby]

Congrats on your grab DL.....I use mine as my main gigging amp every weekend. I just got it back from the shop, and holy cow, it has never sounded better. He repaired all the jacks, solder connections, and adjusted everything possible. I use it on 25 watts just about all the time. My reverb does not hum at all, maybe a quick trip to the local amp guru can fix it? My guy in Lansing will do same day service for gigging musicians, let me know if you want to make the trip, and I will hook it up for you.

[BriBaby]

Oh yeah almost forgot, he repaired the crease in the back panel tube cover too. $90 for everything. Not too bad considering same day and all he did.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Yeah, those amps could benefit from a better cabinet. LPCustom/Bruce? Anyone? Anyone?

 

There's a good chance that the 'verb is noisy on DL's because of it's having been chopped-n-channeled from a 2x12-combo format into being a head; this places the reverb-pan much, much closer to all those tubes 'n' caps 'n' transformers...

 

Searching for other info online, I ran across references to other people having to replace those large resistors in the power-supply like I had to; must be a fairly common problem with these...