GY Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 With all of this talk of impending war, many of us will encounter "Peace Activists" who will try to convince us that we must refrain from retaliating against the ones who terrorized us all on September 11, 2001. These activists may be alone or in a gathering. Most of us do not know how to react to them. When you come upon one of these people, or one of their rallies, here are the proper rules of etiquette: 1. Listen politely while this person explains their views. Strike up a conversation if necessary and look very interested in their ideas. They will tell you how revenge is immoral, and that by attacking the people who did this to us; we will only bring on more violence. They will probably use many arguments, ranging from political to religious to humanitarian. 2. In the middle of their remarks, without any warning, punch them in the nose. 3. When the person gets up off the ground, they will be very angry and they may try to hit you. So be careful. 4. Very quickly and calmly remind the person that violence only brings about more violence and remind them of their stand on this matter. Tell them if they are committed to a nonviolent approach to undeserved attacks, they will turn the other cheek and negotiate a solution. Tell them they must lead by example if they really believe what they are saying. 5. Most of them will think for a moment and then agree that you are correct. 6. As soon as they do that, hit them again. Only this time hit them much harder, square in the nose. 7. Repeat steps 2 - 5 until the desired results are obtained and the idiot realizes how stupid of an argument he/she is making. There is no difference in an individual attacking an unsuspecting victim or a group of terrorists attacking a nation of people. It is unacceptable and must be dealt with, perhaps at a high cost. We owe our military a huge debt for what they are about to do for our children and us We must support them and our leaders at times like these. We have no choice. We either strike back, VERY HARD, or we will keep being hit in the nose. GY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 HAHAHA...I read this somewhere else, too... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnie red Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 How stupid. This is more like retaliation by punching the noses of a community of people - including the elderly, women, children, etc - in wheelchairs with their hands tied behind their back - hoping that one of them *may* have punched you before. Boy, aren't we tough for bombing one of the poorest countries in the world. Not all anti-war activists are pacifists either. I certainly would punch you back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 Hmmmm....I know this is supposed to be funny, but in my opinion, it oversimplifies this whole situation. I don't have a complete solution, and I doubt that anyone else does, either. However, I would *hope* that it would include such "pacifist" leanings as rethinking our Middle East policy over the last twenty years. It's our foreign policy and bullying that has largely created this resentment among Arabs and Muslims. One possible thought could be, "Gee, why don't Arab terrorists attack Canada or Switzerland or Australia? Why do they single us out?" and go from there. Also, if you're going to make a joke of this, what may be more accurate is if you had a big 23 year old linebacker and a 12 year old. The linebacker wants candy that the 12 year old has, so he keeps pushing around the 12 year old, turning the screws on him, coercing him, etc. Then, finally, the 12 year old has enough of this, and punches the linebacker's little sister in the nose. The linebacker screams, "Payback!!! Revenge!!! I've been wronged!! What a coward!!!" and then hits the 12 year old and his little sister. ------------------ Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/Nectar http://www.elevenshadows.com 4 music, travel, more! http://www.cdbaby.com/elevenshadows Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnie red Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 Hey! That's a much better analogy than mine. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbrock1san.rr.com Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 According to Ken/Eleven Shadows we have to understand the rational thought process of Bin Laden and the Taliban and understand why they disagree with our policies. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] That would be great if it was possible. Unfortunately, they live in another dimension with a much different perception of reality and it will never be possible. So we must kill them or defeat their will to create widespread terrorism and destruction....boo hoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathtoallwhoopposeme Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 DEATH TO ALL WHO OPPOSE US....... Sean Michael Mormelo www.seanmmormelo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whosmatt Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 how very, umm..... REDNECK. jesus, if i hear shit like this one more time or see another 'we're coming, bastards' picture in my email i'm going to puke. the football player - 12 yr old analogy was pretty good. [quote]Originally posted by GY: [b]With all of this talk of impending war, many of us will encounter "Peace Activists" who will try to convince us that we must refrain from retaliating against the ones who terrorized us all on September 11, 2001. These activists may be alone or in a gathering. Most of us do not know how to react to them. When you come upon one of these people, or one of their rallies, here are the proper rules of etiquette: 1. Listen politely while this person explains their views. Strike up a conversation if necessary and look very interested in their ideas. They will tell you how revenge is immoral, and that by attacking the people who did this to us; we will only bring on more violence. They will probably use many arguments, ranging from political to religious to humanitarian. 2. In the middle of their remarks, without any warning, punch them in the nose. 3. When the person gets up off the ground, they will be very angry and they may try to hit you. So be careful. 4. Very quickly and calmly remind the person that violence only brings about more violence and remind them of their stand on this matter. Tell them if they are committed to a nonviolent approach to undeserved attacks, they will turn the other cheek and negotiate a solution. Tell them they must lead by example if they really believe what they are saying. 5. Most of them will think for a moment and then agree that you are correct. 6. As soon as they do that, hit them again. Only this time hit them much harder, square in the nose. 7. Repeat steps 2 - 5 until the desired results are obtained and the idiot realizes how stupid of an argument he/she is making. There is no difference in an individual attacking an unsuspecting victim or a group of terrorists attacking a nation of people. It is unacceptable and must be dealt with, perhaps at a high cost. We owe our military a huge debt for what they are about to do for our children and us We must support them and our leaders at times like these. We have no choice. We either strike back, VERY HARD, or we will keep being hit in the nose.[/b][/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 I don't know...seems to me the middle east has been fraught with violence since before we got involved in the area. And nothing has changed. And now we're the big linebacker pushing around the 12 year old kid? I don't think a 12 year old kid is really a good analogy...perhaps the 23 year old successful linebacker pushing around his brother who's done nothing but get into trouble, who had the opportunity to learn ways of improving his lot, but chose to spend his time and money training his friends in guerrilla warfare rather than education, medical care, etc. for his people so he can rally and put down his linebacker brother for being a success. Boy, you don't have to go to the middle east to see that mindset. Go to the ghetto. Same thing. People full of hate because other people are successful and they're not. If Bin Laden wanted to be a real hero, he'd rebuild Kabul (which was destroyed not by the great satan Americans, but by civil war}, spend some of his millions on schools, hospitals, and industrial training programs rather than machine guns and terrorist training camps. But, he's not a freedom fighter. He's a grade A asshole. And I won't lose a second of sleep if and when the news comes that he's been barbecued. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob.hellnerchello.se Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 GY. If you think by bombing this country back to stoneage is gonna rid the world of terrorism and make you look good and also get justice for the innocent that died on september 11 you are dead wrong. The retaliation is only feeding the beast you are trying to kill...As far as I see it you are loosing this war so far and its gonna take you years to get out of it. And with a philosophy like yours it will take even longer.... OD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 Pray tell, OD, what do you suggest? Your argument reminds me of "Tokyo Rose" and "Axis Sally" in WWII...and "Hanoi Jane Fondle"... "Aww, give up, Joe, go home to your wife. You know you can't win this fight...it's not really even worth fighting over, is it?" This message has been edited by Tedster on 10-19-2001 at 03:09 PM "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 Amen Tedster... now that is a much better analogy that the rest of them... Kris My Band: http://www.fullblackout.com UPDATED!!! Fairly regularly these days... http://www.logcabinmusic.com updated 11/9/04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 Just in the short time we've been hitting the Taliban most muslim countries have severed ties with them, cut off their money supply, there are more and more defections from their "military", and the Taliban themselves are falling apart. I wish there was another way to do it, but turning the other cheek as we did with the Cole, the african embassies, and the first attack on the WTC, has accomplished nothing. I'm with GY on this one. Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 [quote]If you think by bombing this country back to stoneage is gonna rid the world of terrorism and make you look good and also get justice for the innocent that died on september 11 you are dead wrong.[/quote] I agree OD. Ted, [quote]If Bin Laden wanted to be a real hero, he'd rebuild Kabul (which was destroyed not by the great satan Americans, but by civil war},[/quote] Are you sure about that...have you really done your homework? [b]PEACE and Love[/b], Steve This message has been edited by Steve LeBlanc on 10-19-2001 at 03:38 PM This message has been edited by Steve LeBlanc on 10-19-2001 at 03:39 PM http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whosmatt Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 Actually, the BBC reported this morning that the reports of defections are unsubstantiated rumors (in other words, not true). [quote]Originally posted by botch@netutah.net: [b]Just in the short time we've been hitting the Taliban most muslim countries have severed ties with them, cut off their money supply, there are more and more defections from their "military", and the Taliban themselves are falling apart. I wish there was another way to do it, but turning the other cheek as we did with the Cole, the african embassies, and the first attack on the WTC, has accomplished nothing. I'm with GY on this one. [/b][/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 Frying the Al Qeada network, incl. bin Laden is fine with me (we're all under the assumption that they/he did it, right? Sounds like that's what happened!). But you can see the point I'm trying to make that this isn't just simply a tit-for-tat issue as described in the first post. And yes, the analogy of the 12 year old being a, um, "problem child" is definitely quite appropriate, Tedster! No one's suggesting for a moment that these terrorists are really great people. They're assholes. But they *do* have a reason for what they do, and it would do well for our current and future administrations to understand why there is so much resentment towards us from the Middle East in general, even among people with moderate views. There was a hornet's nest going on in the Middle East. They also had oil. We wanted oil. And there's Israel/Palestine. And there's walking away from the Afghan./Soviet conflict, leaving lots of bombs and militarily well-trained people to pick up the pieces. And there's the continued occupation in Saudi Arabia (for our oil interests). We stepped right in to this hornet's nest and now, many of us are wondering why we got stung. ------------------ Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/Nectar http://www.elevenshadows.com 4 music, travel, more! http://www.cdbaby.com/elevenshadows Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rold Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 You know Ken, I've always regarded the middle east as a hornet's nest and I've been trying to think of an analogy in that regard, but you beat me to it, and said it better than I would have been able to. You make excellent points, Ken...thank you for taking a level headed approach. Peace, Harold meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 >> According to Ken/Eleven Shadows we have to understand the rational thought process of Bin Laden and the Taliban and understand why they disagree with our policies. That would be great if it was possible. >> I think that through lucid thought processes and decent research, it's not too difficult to figure out why this was done. What are we doing differently that Canada, Switzerland, Australia, Sweden, etc. didn't do? Are we doomed to repeat the same mistakes this next time around? How can we learn from history so we don't make the same mistakes again? Isn't better to try and attempt to understand *why* people choose to hate us, bomb us, give their lives for this reason? Or are we not going to understand the enemy, and instead write them off as "crazies", "fanatics", etc.? In my opinion, it's far too easy to write off people as people who are "fanatics" without trying to understand. It's that understanding that's going to help us, and our administration(s) get through this intact, I believe. Or we can topple the Taliban, kill the terrorist networks, do all this with the aid of the Northern Alliance, and then leave military well-trained people and lots of bombs and military supplies behind, bolt, and let their ruined country pick up the pieces. Oh, wait, we did that already...and it wasn't that long ago...hmmmmm.... ------------------ Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/Nectar http://www.elevenshadows.com 4 music, travel, more! http://www.cdbaby.com/elevenshadows Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 Yep, Ken. Hmmm...the Israel/Palestine issue definitely needs a solution...and it's difficult for me, many of us, I'm sure, to understand coming from a western perspective. I am aware that Israel hasn't been nicey-nice all the time...but...I look at a map and see the huge, vast area that the Islamic people occupy...most, if not all of northern Africa, the middle east/western Asia...and then I see this tiny thumbnail which is Israel. And I know that there are Moslem Holy places there as well, but I can't help but wonder what gives...I know, a western perspective...but, geez... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain54 Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by OD: [b] The retaliation is only feeding the beast you are trying to kill...As far as I see it you are loosing this war so far and its gonna take you years to get out of it. [/b][/quote] Hard core Al Queda believe Americans are weak, vulnerable, self-centered, spineless and spoiled....We're screwed either way....If we don't retaliate it supports their concept of us as wimps, and if we do we retaliate we are looked upon as bullies by the Muslim world at large.... What's alarming is the similiarities to the current wave of terrorism and the Hitler menace which rose to power in the 1930's in Germany...A feeling that "it's us (Muslims)against the Western World", smacks of Hitler rallying Germany against the world for the injustices it suffered after World War I..., also the notion of trying to make Islam one universal religion over all others, quite similiar in my opinion in what Hilter attempted to accomplish with this notion of Aryan Supremacy.... The ramifications of all this, however grim, is that the mindset of Bin Laden and the Al Queda could possibly threaten mankind as we know it... this has been brewing for 20 or more years, its not going to go away with the elimination of the Taliban and Al Queda, but bombing the crap out them is absolutely the first step in the right direction, and like I said before...I realize we're screwed either way, however, no military action is completely out of the question.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig S. Leyh Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 No one's suggesting for a moment that these terrorists are really great people. They're assholes. But they *do* have a reason for what they do, I do not give a rat's @$$ why something happens. All that matters is that is happens good or bad. And that justice is done! Craig S. Leyh CraigLeyh@NVSMedia.com Thank you, Craig S. Leyh CraigLeyh@Buffalo.com WWW.FrameBand.com "Lucky 7" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 (Ken/Eleven Shadows wrote [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] No one's suggesting for a moment that these terrorists are really great people. They're assholes. But they *do* have a reason for what they do, (Craig wrote [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] I do not give a rat's @$$ why something happens. All that matters is that is happens good or bad. And that justice is done! -------- If you don't give a rat's @$$ why something happens, how do you determine what is good and bad? ------------------ Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/Nectar http://www.elevenshadows.com 4 music, travel, more! http://www.cdbaby.com/elevenshadows Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alon Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 I disagree. These "Terrorists" have absolutly NO reason or justification behind ANYTHING that they have done or will do. We're talking about a bunch of well funded, extremist scumbags who are cleverly trying to thwart the opinions of many other not so priviliged people in various countries. I could care less how many thousands or millions of people rally against the US. Doesn't make their point any more valid. They are all dead wrong. I'm not referring to antiwar protesters here, I'm referring to those clearly anti-Us protests in support of Binladen. Millions of brainwashed people supported the Nazis. Where they right ? I support the US actions %100. These vicious attacks have been going on for many years now. It's just a shame that it took something like the WTC, to finally get the US to act. alon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whosmatt Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by Alon: [b] These vicious attacks have been going on for many years now. It's just a shame that it took something like the WTC, to finally get the US to act. alon[/b][/quote] Actually, the US has made quite a few attempts to "deal with" bin laden. Obviously they didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig S. Leyh Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows: [b] (Ken/Eleven Shadows wrote [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] No one's suggesting for a moment that these terrorists are really great people. They're assholes. But they *do* have a reason for what they do, (Craig wrote [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] I do not give a rat's @$$ why something happens. All that matters is that is happens good or bad. And that justice is done! -------- If you don't give a rat's @$$ why something happens, how do you determine what is good and bad? [/b][/quote] Instinctavley by proper upbringing. You never do anything ever to hinder anyone in any way shape or form. Craig S. Leyh Thank you, Craig S. Leyh CraigLeyh@Buffalo.com WWW.FrameBand.com "Lucky 7" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alon Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 I'm aware of the past attempts to get that bastard, but they were half hearted attempts, which really didn't have the same urgency as we're seeing now. Those attempts were also under a former administration. Dead or Alive, you can bet your ass we'll get him this time. alon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomjonesmusic Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 It seems so difficult for many of us to admit that there are people out there that you can't reason with. They have no real issues. Let me say that again, they have no real issues. They want to eliminate all infidels. That is all of us. They don't understand or recognize freedom or differences of opinion. The only reason they talk about Iraq (a secular country) and Israel, is because it serves their purpose. Is there any reason to kill 6000 innocent people? It is not unlike Hitler... First, get the US out of the Gulf, then get the US and Isreal out of Palistine... then what? I find that there are people out there that just don't understand how special freedom is. The Talaban kills people for no reason. They beat woman in the street. Woman are not allowed to be educated, they are not allowed to be seen in public, women are not allowed to be doctors, women are also not allowed to go to a male doctor, 1 out 4 kids die before there 5th birthday. Acording to the people we are fighting this is the ideal world. The world is a complicated place, the issues we have in Isreal are not so easily addressed. Yes the US does do things wrong. Yes we have made mistakes. But more often than not, this country is on the right side of a decission. Of course people get screwed by the system (OJ is still free - the system screwed us on that one), but there is no reason to think that we are wrong for attacking evil (don't make it more complicated than it is). This isn't Vietnam and I know it is fun to think of peace and love, but that isn't the real world. tj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 [quote]This isn't Vietnam and I know it is fun to think of peace and love, but that isn't the real world.[/quote] Condescending but ok, that's how you feel. I respectfully disagree...it's never fun to [b]have[/b] to think of peace and love..and there is nothing more real than the need for both. [b]Are you THE Tom Jones? If so we've got the same birthday, different years[/b] This message has been edited by Steve LeBlanc on 10-19-2001 at 05:18 PM http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 If you don't give a rat's @$$ why something happens, how do you determine what is good and bad? Instinctavley by proper upbringing. You never do anything ever to hinder anyone in any way shape or form. ---- So you never consider the issues in anything? You just know "instinctively" by your "proper upbringing" (whatever that means, since there are so many definitions of this)? How would you answer the following questions: Do you feel it's wrong to, oh, say, take away someone's land, force whole villages to move, and then continue to supply the people that are making those people move with military weapons so that they can continue to do this? Do you feel it's wrong to use fanatics as pawns, give them all sorts of military training and weapons, watch as their country is completely decimated, and then simply walk away afterwards, leaving the weapons in the hands of the aforementioned fanatics? Do you feel it's wrong to support military dictatorships that commit human rights violations, kill whole villages and persecute minority people without a second thought, etc. at the helm because at the moment, it serves your best interest? If someone had done all of the above, would you feel that it was time to, "kick some ass and set things right"? You know, like, take 'em out? Or is this not considered "hindering anyone in any shape or form"? Or perhaps you know the answers to this without thinking about it because you know "instinctively" by your "proper upbringing"? Just curious. ------------------ Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/Nectar http://www.elevenshadows.com 4 music, travel, more! http://www.cdbaby.com/elevenshadows This message has been edited by Ken/Eleven Shadows on 10-20-2001 at 01:35 PM Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evets Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 I think that's "kick some ass"... -Steve ----------------------------------- Sometimes ya gotta find out what it ain't, to find out what it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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