DP3 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I'm getting tired of these dudes bringing in crappy sounding rigs. Is there at least 1 good amp simulator out there like the 2112 or something? Anything but a Pod. Or should I just buy a rig? I appreciate any ideas. "There is no spoon." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudcat Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 If you are trying to avoid digital modeling but still want a variety of amp sounds, the consensus around here seems to be to go with one of the Tech 21 products. If you want a box or rack unit you could go with one of the Sansamp models. If you want an actual amp, a Trademark 10, 30 or 60 could fit your needs. There are other folks on the forum who own these products who could provide more hands on info. I'm only familiar with them from hearing them in use and I've always been impressed. Mudcat's music on Soundclick "Work hard. Rock hard. Eat hard. Sleep hard. Grow big. Wear glasses if you need 'em."-The Webb Wilder Credo- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billster Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I remember the original SansAmps (with those 9 micro switches) as being pretty good. I haven't really heard a Pod in a critical listening environment. I tried out Native Instruments Guitar Rig software, and thought it was pretty remarkable. BUT........ It seems like most folks who use modelers aren't satisfied with them in the long run. There's just something too processed about the sound. I'm still in love with my ADA MP-1 tube preamp. I record direct with a Hughes & Kettner Red Box and I'm very satisfied with the results. I use a clean reference power amp (and no Red Box) to run a pair of speaker cabinets when I want to play out loud. So I would recommend a tube based preamp, combined with a clean power amp to your guitar cabinets for versatility in recording. Buy my CD on CD Baby! Bill Hartzell - the website MySpace?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nollykin Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Eeek - I've been out of the loop for a while - Tech 21? Looks like a Line6 clone (Hmm, clone of a clone?) to me - Why not just go with line6? Differences? "Money, Bitchez and Cheese!" http://www.playspoon.com/nollykin/files/voxline.gif "I never thought about it, and I never stopped to feel - But I didn't want you telling me just what to think was real. And as simple as it comes, I only wanted to express- ...But with expression comes regret - and I don't want you hating me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudcat Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by Nollykin: Eeek - I've been out of the loop for a while - Tech 21? Looks like a Line6 clone (Hmm, clone of a clone?) to me - Why not just go with line6? Differences?Tech 21 has been around since the late 80s or early 90s if I'm not mistaken. I believe that's when they first came out with the Sansamp pedal. Their products are ALL ANALOG. No digital modeling. They are designed not so much to model the sound of a specific amp, but more to mimic the general characteristics of a series of amp brands (Fender, Marshall and Boogie, to be specific). The amps have no effects, other than a real-live spring reverb. Tech 21 products are thought to not suffer from the "digititis" that critics accuse Line 6 of having. (BTW - I'm a big fan of Line 6 products. I've been lusting after a Flextone for a long time). Check out some of the sound samples at their website. I think they're pretty impressive. Mudcat's music on Soundclick "Work hard. Rock hard. Eat hard. Sleep hard. Grow big. Wear glasses if you need 'em."-The Webb Wilder Credo- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP3 Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 What about the Roland GT6? "There is no spoon." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudcat Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by DP3: What about the Roland GT6?Totally unfamiliar with it. Out of curiosity, what is your beef with Line 6? I just immediately assumed you didn't like the "digital thing" that so many people gripe about with their products. That's why Tech 21 immediately came to mind. Mudcat's music on Soundclick "Work hard. Rock hard. Eat hard. Sleep hard. Grow big. Wear glasses if you need 'em."-The Webb Wilder Credo- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebonn Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I also recommend going analog with the sansamp. The psa-1 is great for guitar, bass, and vocals. www.blairsdevillestudios.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennyf Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I am the forum's self-appointed Tech 21 pimp. Once I got my Trademark 60, I was ruined for anything else. I also have a Trademark 10, and have a Tri-AC pedal/preamp on order. The 60 and the 10 are distinctly different from each other, but both sound good. I mic the 60 playing live, and have recorded with both the 60 and the 10 both direct and mic'ed. As a sidenote, I always stick a dummy plug in the headphone jack when recording direct and set up my sound thru the studio monitors. Here's a sample (from another thread) that I recorded direct with the TM-10. I have not yet received the Tri-AC but expect similar results from it. In my experience, Tech 21 doesn't make any dogs. band link: bluepearlband.com music, lessons, gig schedules at dennyf.com STURGEON'S LAW --98% of everything is bullshit. My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Jackhammer of Love and Mercy. Get yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaseguitar Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 [snip] What about the Roland GT6? [/snip] I own the Boss (Roland) GT6. I've had it about a month, now, and it's working out very well. Since you're shopping around, I thought I would lay out my thoughts on the unit: I was originally a very big critic of the GT line of modelers. The GT3 was terrible, the GT5 was usable, but the GT6 has been a big improvement. It can be used for both live and recording. It won't sound good through a bad power amp or mic pre-amp, but, then again, nothing will. It does have a digital out so you can avoid that problem in your home recording (I don't have a digital in on the Ozone I have, so I can't speak to using the output). The guy I worked with that used one for incredible live tone used a ProCo rat for the distortions instead of the overdrives in the GT6. I am trying to avoid that, and have found some good ones, but I can see why he did it. Except for the T-Scream and OD-1 emulations, I haven't found a distortion that fits my needs. Then again, I play Freddy Jones Band, Phish, that kind of thing. If you're into metal, then you're all set. And the tones have matched up fairly well with Steely Dan stuff. I sold the Line 6 POD 2.0 to buy the GT6. The POD was too clunky to use, and I couldn't get a good clean out of it. Also, I found the effects very lacking. Clean tone has been the strong point of the GT6 for me. People have told me the Pod Xt is actually worse, some like it. For live, the best setup for this unit I've heard is the GT6 into a Mesa/Boogie 50/50 into a Carvin GT15 cabinet. I play it into a MarkIIc+ right now, and that also well. But it won't make a bad amp sound good. One more thing -- I was on a budget, so I bought the GT6 for a good price. However, the GT8 can be obtained from a Japanese vendor if you know where to go. I don't know the price, I just know where to find it. http://www.gtcentral.com has load of info on the GT6, using it, and teenagers with too much time on their hands. There's three minutes of typing for you. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy d Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 DP3, check out the boss amp factory... it works well as a recording device, striaght into a PA, or as a stomp box, 22 amp sounds + speaker simulations, one setting that you can load into memory and a second manual one plus by-pass. It doesn't waste processing power on effects or patches, just great sounding amp simulations. Now for the shameless spam - I've got one for sale drop me a note if you want to know more. roy Roy http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/alexisdmusic.htm "once it stops bein' a mystery it stops bein' true" David Mowaljarlai - Ngarinyin Aboriginal Elder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I agree with the Tech21 plug, they do sound cool, very rock n roll. I have the original Sansamp and the original POD, so far they both have things that you can dial in that still sound damn cool to me. Some sounds recorded sounded almost......almost real. I'm a big fan of building "doghouses" for your speaker cabs or your combo and mic'd up to get a real sound. If you have the luxury of not worrying about the cops getting called, you probably don't care. But those of us living in normal everyday America have to use methods to keep Johnny Law and uptight neighbors at bay. Somebody a while back suggested the Isobox unit Randall put out, has a speaker in a box with a mic attachment inside. You just plug it all up and go at it. Don't know how they sound. I don't think there is a best, maybe just best for you. Subjective as hell. I personally don't like the sound of most multi-effects units of the pedalboard variety. But there are cool things in just about everyone of them, just not a good amp tone to my ears. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretzel logic Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Someone else brought up the 'Guitar Rig' software already, but it get's my vote for the most versatile amp/cab simulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by DP3: I'm getting tired of these dudes bringing in crappy sounding rigs. Is there at least 1 good amp simulator out there like the 2112 or something? Anything but a Pod. Or should I just buy a rig? I appreciate any ideas.So, what are you going to do, tell them that they cannot use their rigs in your room? Seems to me that you are wasting your money. I've got a bunch of vintage amps of all brands to get great studio guitar sounds.... but I'm a player and I bought them for me. The fact that others like to use them on their recordings is a bonus. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prague Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by billster: ...It seems like most folks who use modelers aren't satisfied with them in the long run.It depends on your circle of acquaintances. Most of the players I know have them and use them all the time. I don't know anyone who bought and subsequently sold them. But, YMMV. Keyboards have been "modeled" for years. It's only a matter of time for guitar amps. The time is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklava Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I am the forum's self-appointed Tech 21 pimp. The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billster Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Originally posted by Prague: Originally posted by billster: ...It seems like most folks who use modelers aren't satisfied with them in the long run.It depends on your circle of acquaintances. Most of the players I know have them and use them all the time. I don't know anyone who bought and subsequently sold them. But, YMMV. Keyboards have been "modeled" for years. It's only a matter of time for guitar amps. The time is now.I can see using modelers if you are in a cover band and need a convenient way to hit all the tones for popular songs of the past 40 years, but for studio environment, most of the tone freaks I have encountered in person and on this forum still prefer a genuine amp dialed in for a specific tone. Most amps have versatility of tone, but take some dialing around. The modelers offer convenience of switching between many many many tones without having to stop and twiddle the dials. Buy my CD on CD Baby! Bill Hartzell - the website MySpace?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejeeber Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Well Amplitube gets my vote. Haven't tried the new "Amplitube Live" version yet, but I used to think I liked the TDM Line 6 Amp Farm plug-in until I tried Amplitube. Of course I'm not averse to recording a guitar part direct while monitoring one of the presets, then if I'm not loving the sound on playback, tweaking the amp settings after the fact. Haven't tried Guitar Rig - has anyone here directly compared Guitar Rig to Amplitube? Just a pinch between the geek and chum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cole Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I will chime in.... I have: POD 2- great for a while, then you start to here the glichiness. Still a good tool. NI Guitar Rig- I am not convinced. Sounds like a mic'd signal mixed with a DI, maybe 75%/25%. enough to say yuck. Alien Connections- not the real deal But........ The Vox ToneLab.... that sounds really good. The best sounding of any amp simulator I have ever tried, by a long shot. There is no substitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Originally posted by Joe Cole: I will chime in.... I have: POD 2- ... NI Guitar Rig- ... But........ The Vox ToneLab.... that sounds really good. The best sounding of any amp simulator I have ever tried, by a long shot.That is telling to me, because Garry Simmons bought one fo the Vox amps with the Tone Lab built in and he liked it a lot at first, but grew to not like it so much after using it for a while. I trust Garry a lot. I'm probably still going to drag around my RP-200/Cube 40 where appropriate, but for recordings, the amps and effects will continue to be a cut above. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cole Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com: ...Garry Simmons bought one fo the Vox amps with the Tone Lab built in and he liked it a lot at first, but grew to not like it so much after using it for a while. I trust Garry a lot. Bill[/QB]Maybe so, I do not own the Vox. In the store side by side, it was much better. Here at home, as I stated above, the POD2 and Guitar Rig just do not cut it. Maybe I would tire of the Vox too. I was so bummed out about the fact the POD just didn't cut the mustard, so I did a quick and dirty experiment. I mic'd up my tube Marshall haphazardly, with a Beyer dynamic mic. Just aiming at the speakers (6 inches away at a 45 degree angle. Les Paul straight into the amp, mic, straight into a Tascam interface, then into the pc. The sound is just not comparable. The simulators are quick and easy, but even a half assed job of mic'ing with minimal or no outboard gear gets tones that are just so much more 3 dimensional. So... the search for a DI method of recording guitar continues.... Maybe a THD hotplate and the speaker sim of the NI? There is no substitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc taz Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I'm the Zoom GFX-5 guy. Its amp sims are analog. Not as refined as the Tech 21 stuff, but very usable. I've had great results running it as a preamp to a solid state combo's power amp section. Generally, I just use it with a few effects. In most cases, I keep the speaker sim turned off when used as a preamp. Often, I just use a little reverb, and/or delay. Other than that, it's worth the investment, as you can also use it for direct recording, and headphone practice. The packaging is very durable, as well. This (and its midi capable bro, the GFX-8) isn't a lightweight pedal board. It can take a considerable amount of abuse, unless you're the 10 ton lead-footed type. sevenstring.org profile my flickr page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Of all the modelers I have heard (and that is quite a few of them!), I think 2 are heads-above the rest: Vox ToneLab Line6 POD XT, but only if it is running the 2.0 software upgrade!! cheers, aeon Go tell someone you love that you love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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