Bbach1 Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 I'm seeking an affordable way to get a guitar put together the way I want it. I have found a guitar I like, thinking I'll change out the humbuckers for a set of Duncan P90 Phat Cats. Where's the problem you say? Well, the damn thing has a locking Kahler tremelo bridge. I have never messed with any trem bridges. I am leary as I have heard they are harder to keep in tune. So, what exactly is a 'locking' bridge vs a non-locking bridge? Also, does anyone have experience with the Kahler trem bridge - good or bad? Thanks. bbach Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 do you really need/want/plan to use dive bomb trems? If not, why bother? Locking terms are pretty simple, but they also take away some of the tone. My luthier will not let me have one anymore. (He really hates them...) The cool part is that, once you tune up and lock the strings, you can whammy the hell out of it and it will always come back in tune when you let go of the bar. There are a couple of different types, one of which requires you to cut the ball ends off of the strings (or buy the right strings to start with... likely harder to find and limited choices.) I put a Bigsby on one guitar, and I put a standard Fender style trem on one of my guitars. Both were fine for 90% of -my- needs. (Possibly not yours.) Frankly, if I build another one or have another one built, it won't have a trem. Just don't use it enough to justify the loss in tone. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbach1 Posted October 3, 2004 Author Share Posted October 3, 2004 I really don't want a freakin trem. I have no use for one. I'm wondering now if I pull off the Kahler trem bridge, what kind of holes I'll have to fill. If it's not too bad, then I can mount the bridge of my choice. bbach Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Originally posted by cwfno: I really don't want a freakin trem. I have no use for one. I'm wondering now if I pull off the Kahler trem bridge, what kind of holes I'll have to fill. If it's not too bad, then I can mount the bridge of my choice.Oh, yeah, it's a freaking big hole. It would be easier/smarter/cleaner to buy a new body, used body, whatever than to try to fill the hole left by most dive bomb style trems. Or just figure out a way to brace it so that it does not rock, and pull the arm off, and use it as a fixed bridge. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwestenberg Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I have a couple of different styles of Kahler trems on my guitars. If the trem is the surface mount type there will be a huge hole if you remove it, though not as deep as the one for a Floyd Rose trem since their design is more of a cam vs. a pivoting block. On the other hand I have a Kahler that was designed to retrofit a LesPaul style guitar which required a much smaller hole. These were both added to my guitars after I bought them. Lyrics. Wasted space between solos. I can't tell you, but I can play it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hound Dog Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 The Kahler always felt better than a Floyd to me because of my heavy palm mute style. It is still on my Hamer, but I rarely screw in the bar anymore. I just don't mess with it. The strings are very easy to change with the Kahler. It is not "floating" like a Floyd, so you can't get that "warble" like you can by flicking a Floyd's bar that Brad Gillis and others made popluar for a year or two. I don't ever worry about what will happen or what kind of hole will be left if I decide to take it off, becuase I figure once you've committed, that's it. If you want something different after you've routed to put in a locking tail, probably just as well get another guitar. Yum, Yum! Eat em up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin-erator Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Originally posted by cwfno: I really don't want a freakin trem. I have no use for one. I'm wondering now if I pull off the Kahler trem bridge, what kind of holes I'll have to fill. If it's not too bad, then I can mount the bridge of my choice.Is your new guitar a strat-style or Jackson soloist style guitar? Before Kahler went south, they made a trem that would just pop in where a strat style trem had been. If you have this type, with springs under a back-plate, then you could easily replace it with an American Standard style strat trem, or a Wilkinson trem. Also, the nut on the Floyd was a little better than the locking nut on the Kahler. The Floyd nut was actually the last point of contact with the strings before the frets. The Kahler nut actually sat behind a traditional nut. I would take out the Kahler nut and replace the tuners with some locking tuners. With well lubricated nut, or a graphite nut, you won't have any tuning problems. Good luck! Vinny Cervoni vcbluzman@hotmail.com www.bluzberrypi.com www.42ndstband.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werewolf by Night Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon3.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif No matter what kind of whammy-bar you've got there, if you like the way the guitar sounds and feels UNPLUGGED (I know you want those P-90 stylees in there) right now, as-is, but just don't need or want to use the trem-arm, LEAVE THE WHAMMY-BAR BRIDGE IN THERE AND SIMPLY HAVE IT "BLOCKED IN", SO THAT IT DOESN'T MOVE ANYMORE. (And, of course, remove the arm and stash it away in a safe place.) Tremolo units - and their springs, and the attendant routing the require, all have an effect on the way a guitar sounds. Note that Eric Clapton prefers Strats with trems to "hardtails", even though he doesn't use them and has them "blocked". They often act like mechanical reverb devices, with the sound ringing through the springs and into the wood of the body. Much simpler than all that would be needed to replace it with a different bridge and tailpiece assembly! And, if you decide down the road that you want to use the whammy, it's still there, just remove the "blocks". If you ever want to sell or trade it, it's all intact. As for those Khaler "Fulcrum" models, I've got one on a guitar. Much better than the more commonly known Kahlers, in my opinion, and very much a heavy-duty variation on the classic fender "Syncronized Tremolo", with fine-tuners. As I ditched the behind-the-nut clamp, I run the fine-tuners full-up tight with some "Loc-Tite" and don't use 'em. They're only held up in place by string tension pulling them, and can flop around when the bar is pushed down, possibly resulting in tuning inconsistencies when the bar is returned to "normal". Yuck. If it's set-up "floating"-style, you'll probably greatly benefit from installing a Hipshot Tremsetter (do a search here for "Tremsetter" and/or "Trem setter"), which enforces a more exact "normal" balance-point for the bridge to settle on and return to. If it's set-up "flat" to the body, you won't need a Tremsetter. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Originally posted by cwfno: So, what exactly is a 'locking' bridge vs a non-locking bridge? Also, does anyone have experience with the Kahler trem bridge - good or bad? Thanks.A locking bridge locks the end of the springs - usually in some sort of vise assembly. This reduces string slippage at the bridge and improves tuning stability. They are usually but not always paired with a locking nut that holds the strings in place at the other end for further stability. Kahlers are usually mounted in a big hole and you'd have to have a luthier fill it with a block of wood or some sort of resin before putting a new bridge on there. Major surgery and major $$. IMHO you're better off selling the guitar to someone who wants a Kahler-equipped guitar and buying anbother guitar that doesn't have one. I haven't played a guitar with a Kahler for a long time. As I remember, the tension required to pull the bar up or drop it was rediculously small compared to a Floyd system. It was like having a rubber whammy bar. "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werewolf by Night Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Originally posted by Gabriel E. vil: "IMHO you're better off selling the guitar to someone who wants a Kahler-equipped guitar and buying anbother guitar that doesn't have one."I heartily agree; unless he likes the guitar anyways, whammy or no whammy. Originally posted by Gabriel E. vil: "I haven't played a guitar with a Kahler for a long time. As I remember, the tension required to pull the bar up or drop it was rediculously small compared to a Floyd system. It was like having a rubber whammy bar."Yhup, the "normal" Kahler that is most often seen is pretty much exactly the way you describe. Adrian Belew seems to be the most visible one of the very few- if not the only!- folks who prefers 'em. Incidentally, that rubbery feel, and, especially, the way a Kahler will NOT raise the strings up and away from the pickups like a Strat's Trem or a Floyd Rose does, is what makes the Kahler so ideal for him. They work much better than anything else like that for use with a hex-pickup to drive a synth, sampler, etc. The "Fulcrum"-style Kahlers behave a lot more like a standard Strat's Trem-bridge, with a more traditional feel and action. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbach1 Posted October 4, 2004 Author Share Posted October 4, 2004 Well, my idea was to purchase this particular guitar, because it has the look, wood, and neck through body that I want. I was going to strip off everything and use the body to put together my own axe. However, the Kahler trem is the real pickle, as I don't want to mess with filling any holes larger than a small screw hole. So, that idea is out for now. Thanks for the advice y'all bbach Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werewolf by Night Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 What is it? The guitar, I mean? What are the main features and attributes that so endear it to your special requirements? Give me some more to go on here... Perhaps you could get Carvin to sell you an unfinished, bare-bones, partially routed neck-through neck 'n' body; talk to Boggs here on the Guitar Forum, he's got friends 'n' connections there. Or, Carvin does sell through-necks if you want to build a body around the "through"-section, you could simply attatch "wings" to either side of it and go from there. There's loads of free (and reliable, accurate) info on locating for bridges, etc. We can hook you up! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baronedo Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 My trems are limited to Strat trems, with a tremsetter for trem stability, and locking tuners. I've found that this combination provides trem capability with tuning stability and with the ease of use and changing of standard ball end strings (as opposed to a trem with strings locked into the bridge via set screws and with a lock nut at the head. However, if you don't want to use the trem, I would check with some guitar parts outfits e.g. Stewart McDonald to see if they make an aftermarket non-trem bridge you could drop into your guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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