Guitar synth (adding drum/bass lines LIVE)

[LiveMusic]

On another forum said: "A friend of mine recently bought a guitar synth (sorry I don't know the name) which follows his chord playing and adds bass and drums, and can change lead 'voices' to whatever instrument he wants for solos."

 

This, as a result of my asking about using an arranger keyboard to augment my live sound. Currently, I play acoustic guitar only. But, at minimum, if I could add bass and drum beats, that might interest me very much. I can do with a keyboard but I'd like to know about guitar-based options for on-the-fly drum/bass lines.

[webe123]

Originally posted by LiveMusic:

On another forum said: "A friend of mine recently bought a guitar synth (sorry I don't know the name) which follows his chord playing and adds bass and drums, and can change lead 'voices' to whatever instrument he wants for solos."

 

This, as a result of my asking about using an arranger keyboard to augment my live sound. Currently, I play acoustic guitar only. But, at minimum, if I could add bass and drum beats, that might interest me very much. I can do with a keyboard but I'd like to know about guitar-based options for on-the-fly drum/bass lines.

I don't know which MIDI guitar option your friend is talking about, but the Roland GR-33 will do pretty much what you said. It is around $600.00 new. They also have a new GR-20 for less money and is easier to use than the GR-33. You have to get a guitar that is equipped with a MIDI pickup, but try to get cheap used Brian moore or godin, because the roland pickups that you put on a guitar are crap! Also the roland ready strat is not much better. You are better off with a RMC pickup system like the brian moore or godin. The roland pickups just do not track well at all. I know, I had both the removable pickup and a roland ready strat, but got rid of both. I now use a Brian Moore 81.13 and it does a fantastic job of tracking the notes I want. No delay at all. Just some suggestions for your consideration.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

You could just get Band In A Box.

 

You could get fancier. I had a GraphTek Ghost MIDI pickup put into one of my guitars. Works great. I didn't get it for your purpose, I got it to be able to play lines and then print them out for others to play (like horn charts and stuff) using Finale. But you could use something like Sonar or any other sequencer and write parts that way.

 

Band In A Box is a much simpler solution.

 

Bill

[Jeebus]

I agree with bpark.

 

Many guitar synths (at least the modern ones) are temperamental and don't track very well.

 

Some kind of sequencer, or even BIAB is more reliable, especially for live use.

[webe123]

Originally posted by Sir Jeebus:

I agree with bpark.

 

Many guitar synths (at least the modern ones) are temperamental and don't track very well.

 

Some kind of sequencer, or even BIAB is more reliable, especially for live use.

The GR-33 is the one I use live all the time! It does a great job. I don't have any tracking issues since I got rid of the roland MIDI pickups and started using a decent MIDI guitar pickup like the RMC. That was what was causing the problem. The GR- 33 will do great live and yes, you can get a Graphtech GHOST MIDI pickup system, but then you have to have a guitar to put it into, because they do not make production models for it. (at least not yet, I wrote graphtech and they are looking at some manufacturers.) So it all depends on if you want to use just a keyboard or get a guitar synth system.

[Jeebus]

Originally posted by webe123:

The GR-33 is the one I use live all the time! It does a great job. I don't have any tracking issues since I got rid of the roland MIDI pickups and started using a decent MIDI guitar pickup like the RMC. That was what was causing the problem. The GR- 33 will do great live and yes, you can get a Graphtech GHOST MIDI pickup system, but then you have to have a guitar to put it into, because they do not make production models for it. (at least not yet, I wrote graphtech and they are looking at some manufacturers.) So it all depends on if you want to use just a keyboard or get a guitar synth system.

I play keyboards, but I thought about getting into guitar synths as well. I wasn't happy at all with the GR-33 tracking I experienced in the store. The guitar had a Roland GK pickup on it, which you're telling me was the source of your problems. Can you recommend any specific pickup systems? I've got a Parker Fly Deluxe that I'm willing to midi up if good tracking is guaranteed...

[webe123]

Originally posted by Sir Jeebus:

Originally posted by webe123:

The GR-33 is the one I use live all the time! It does a great job. I don't have any tracking issues since I got rid of the roland MIDI pickups and started using a decent MIDI guitar pickup like the RMC. That was what was causing the problem. The GR- 33 will do great live and yes, you can get a Graphtech GHOST MIDI pickup system, but then you have to have a guitar to put it into, because they do not make production models for it. (at least not yet, I wrote graphtech and they are looking at some manufacturers.) So it all depends on if you want to use just a keyboard or get a guitar synth system.

I play keyboards, but I thought about getting into guitar synths as well. I wasn't happy at all with the GR-33 tracking I experienced in the store. The guitar had a Roland GK pickup on it, which you're telling me was the source of your problems. Can you recommend any specific pickup systems? I've got a Parker Fly Deluxe that I'm willing to midi up if good tracking is guaranteed...

Well if you are REALLY wanting to go all the way, you could get an AXON AX 100, but those are VERY costly! They sell for about $800.00 used on ebay. But what they are, is an interface between your MIDI guitar and the keyboard module you have. These units provide the best tracking of any unit out there. The best setup would be a very, very good keyboard module of your choice, hooked to an axon ax 100 midi guitar interface and finally a guitar equipped with graphtechs GHOST system hooked to the axon. The ghost system is a specially designed guitar bridge that will fit into most start style guitars. (don't know about parker guitars,though.)

 

If you are interested in just a more down to earth setup, I would reccomend a Roland GR-33 with a RMC MIDI equipped guitar, such as those made by both brian moore and godin.(you have to get a model with the special 13 pin pickups in them, some models do not have them) Then, all you have to do is run the roland GR-33 to a guitar amp and run the guitar amp out to the PA.

 

If you are going to use your own keyboard module and want to be thrifty A roland GI-20 does basically the same thing as a axon ax 100, but does not track as well, then you could add a RMC MIDI equipped guitar and you are all set.

[g.]

Graphtech's Ghost stuff arguably performs as well as RMC stuff and I've heard from a couple respected luthiers that they've seen a fair amount of piezo-mounting quality-control issues with RMC.

[webe123]

Double post! Sorry!

[webe123]

Originally posted by webe123:

Originally posted by   :

Graphtech's Ghost stuff arguably performs as well as RMC stuff and I've heard from a couple respected luthiers that they've seen a fair amount of piezo-mounting quality-control issues with RMC.

Did you read what I posted? I said that the GHOST system was the BEST...not just on par with RMC, but not everyone can afford to buy a new guitar just for that system to be put into it or wants to drill holes in their favorite guitar! So that is why I reccomended the Brian Moore and the Godins with RMC.

 

They are fantastic production MIDI guitar's if you don't have the technical knowledge to install the GHOST system or can't afford to have a luthier do it for you. I will get a GHOST system, if I ever have a guitar built or have the spare money to get a good strat and have a luthier put it in for me.

 

But to tell you the truth, I have not had ANY problems with tracking on my Brian Moore 81.13, so I don't know what you have read, but I DO know what it is to use one live and they are a great system. By the way, the RMC system I am talking about are the ones already built into the production Godins and Brian Moores....I could not tell you what kind of issues you would have if you just got the RMC bridge and mounted it to a guitar yourself with one of their kits.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Originally posted by webe123:

....not everyone can afford to buy a new guitar just for that system to be put into it or wants to drill holes in their favorite guitar! So that is why I reccomended the Brian Moore and the Godins with RMC.

 

[/QB]

The Brian Moore line is beautiful, plays well, and would probably be a joy to own. Fellow ProRec Contributing Editor Garry Simmons makes sure that we spend a considerable amount of time in their booth when we're at shows together. Probably the reason that he hasn't bought one yet is that they keep making nicer looking instruments.

 

It was seeing the Brian Moore with MIDI that made me think about dragging out my MIDI guitar rig and updating the pickup. (I had the old G2)

 

You probably can't get the parts bought and work done for much less than what a low end Brian Moore costs to buy. I chose to have the Ghost installed, in part because I love playing the guitar I had it put into, and in part because I didn't want ANOTHER guitar.

 

Bill

[g.]

A fair number of bassists have had RMC systems, a fair number of their luthiers have installed them. I've talked to some of them as I've been getting ready to do 13-pin on my six string fretless bass to drive my V-Bass. What keeps coming back to me is that sometimes one or more strings had contact-related balance or dropout problems. Kind of reminds me of some of what Rick Turner has written about working with piezo for HIS basses.

 

The only thing that has put me off on Ghost is they promised a Hipshot/Ghost joint project on a bridge that still hasn't materialized.

 

EDIT: was that "petulant" I was seeing in your post there? ; }

[webe123]

Originally posted by   :

A fair number of bassists have had RMC systems, a fair number of their luthiers have installed them. I've talked to some of them as I've been getting ready to do 13-pin on my six string fretless bass to drive my V-Bass. What keeps coming back to me is that sometimes one or more strings had contact-related balance or dropout problems. Kind of reminds me of some of what Rick Turner has written about working with piezo for HIS basses.

 

The only thing that has put me off on Ghost is they promised a Hipshot/Ghost joint project on a bridge that still hasn't materialized.

 

EDIT: was that "petulant" I was seeing in your post there? ; }

Well I was speaking of GUITARS...not BASS GUITARS. Bass guitars and MIDI are a different thing entirely and I really could not comment on that, because I am a guitar player.

[Jeebus]

It seems there's a lot more options for guitar synth then I previously knew about.. I have some research to do.

 

Thanks for all the info.

[webe123]

Well here are some links to what I have been talking about:

 

Here is a Brian Moore 81.13 ($746.00 with gig bag and FREE SHIPPING at MF)(This is the cheapest, decent MIDI production guitar I could find with humbuckler, piezo AND MIDI pickup)

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_id/105416

 

Here is a Roland GI-20 (This is what you can use to hook up your midi guitar to you keyboard module)

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=guitar/search/detail/base_pid/150094/

 

Here is a Roland GR-33 (The MIDI guitar unit I have)

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=guitar/search/detail/base_pid/151382/

 

This is what a newer axon unit than the axon ax100, it is an AXON NGC-66....it is selling for a good price too! ($499.00) (You can use this unit also to hook up your MIDI guitar to a external keyboard module)

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41421&item=3750389244&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW#ebayphotohosting

 

Finally, the graphtech site that Makes the GHOST MIDI guitar pickup system (THE BEST!)

 

http://graphtech.bc.ca/product_display.asp?SearchType=brand&brand=Ghost

[g.]

Well I was speaking of GUITARS...not BASS GUITARS. Bass guitars and MIDI are a different thing entirely

Actually, we haven't been talking about MIDI per se - we've been talking about sensing systems. And it isn't really very different for basses than it is for guitars. Both use the same technology, supplied mostly by the same companies: Roland, Axxon, RMC, Graphtech etc. And a lot of the same luthiers build BOTH (see Brain Moore as an example of one that is high profile and high production).

 

and I really could not comment on that, because I am a guitar player.

I on the other hand can speak about guitars AND BASSES because I am aware the technology is the same for both and that the same companies provide it for the most part. And it's easy enough to gather anecdotal evidence about both from luthiers who will build gutars OR basses when commissioned.