skipclone 1 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Here`s a question-maybe this should be on the lowdown forum but I think it applies to other situations as well. I decided, after a friend of mine who had said he wanted to play bass on a couple of songs I was recording ran into delays, to hire someone from an advertisement. This person himself told me that it`s a good idea to hear someone`s playing before you do anything with them (I agree), but I got lucky this time. In talking with him on the way to the studio it was abvious he knew his stuff, not only as a musician but as a recording engineer. Between his ability and me having a pretty clear idea of what I wanted and being able to play some of the ideas ona guitar when needed, we managed to get two songs down in under three hours. Not bad considering that he only heard them once. But toward the end of the session, he mentioned that the strings on his bass were old. That explained why I wasn`t hearing the definition I would have liked. What he played was really nice, he had a Keely compressor which added some space around the notes. But if I had wanted a bright, Chris Squire sort of sound, I wasn`t going to get it with this situation. So, #1, what is it with bass players and changing strings? I mean, I know they`re expensive but why defeat the purpose of having a nice bass with strings that muck up the sound? #2, shouldn`t a professional mention something like that BEFORE a recording date? some people actually like that boomy, bottomy sound but shouldn`t that be up to the client? How hard is it to ask, `should I use new strings?` or is this something I should have anticipated and asked about? I mean, I`m pretty happy with what we have but I`m kind of wondering how much beter it might have been if the guy had just changed his freakin strings, at least renently. Same old surprises, brand new cliches- Skipsounds on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A String Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 All of the stints I did as a studio musician were done as a "You hired me so you get my sound" kind of thing. If you don't want my sound, you hire someone else. When ever I sat in for bass parts, I would always listen to what they had down and then decide whether my sound was best represented with new strings or old strings. (Old strings really punch the low end with out any high end definition.) If, after a day of playing they didn't like how it was going, they could have always fired me and hired someone else. Remember when hiring a studio musician, it's up to you to find out as much as possible about who you are hiring. Ask a lot of questions and especially talk to other bands that he has sat in for. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguit Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I show up at recording sessions, and gigs, unless I'm told otherwise, with at least one guitar, an amp and some effects which will afford me and the person who's hired me a multitude of tones. I also bring extra patch cables, different guage picks, extra string sets, mini tools, etc. I'm finding, though, that some of my peers do not automatically do this. Therefore, it is in the best interest of the project leader to specify with some advance time what one should bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicalhair Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I think it isn't that simple. James Jamerson supposedly NEVER changed his strings. A lot of guys use flats specifically when recording to avoid a bright sound. A lot of engineers and producers want nothing but the bottom end out of a bass. It sits in the mix better according that way of thinking, requires less processing and so on. Dead strings, or at least not terribly new strings, serve that aim. New strings for me are way to bright and metalic sounding and cause more problems than they solve on bass, and often on guitar. I like my strings about a week old. But I don't sweat very much and keep my hands as clean as I can. YMMV. Did you tell him you wanted a particular sound before he showed up? If so, what was his reaction? I keep 5 basses and when I was playing a lot of bass each was set up with different strings so I could get just about any sound I wanted. If he is really busy with a wide range of gigs he might do the same. When recording I'd bring 3 basses at least even if I knew what was wanted because you just never really know till it is finished. But, if you still want more high end or clack or whatever on the tracks you could double the bass lines with a guitar or guitars or this just popped into my head like a melodic percussion instrument hit with really had mallets. Not like those are lying around everywhere but low in the mix and tweaked right might give the sound you want, and a synth could be used instead. check out some comedy I've done: http://louhasspoken.tumblr.com/ My Unitarian Jihad Name: Brother Broadsword of Enlightened Compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoes Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 That's a terrific live and learn post and having read through this I'd most certainly take issue with the finer things that otherwise go unmentioned if placed in this situation. Interesting line there on being hired as a particular sound and I'm inclined to think you're hired as a particular ability to navigate an arrangement. I will do the part of defining how you fit into the mix. interesting I still think guitars are like shoes, but louder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicalhair Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 That sort of all goes under the catagory of "pre-production", the more details that you think about the better off you'll be when tracking and mixing. Every instrument has it's own sound and when that sound matters-- in this case the idea that one would want say a Chris Squire sound, verses say a James Jamerson sound-- sort would be something a bassist might want to ask or a producer might want to say up front. I've played wildly inappropriate bass lines on recordings because no one said what they were going for or what the context was or anything. No one complained but when I heard the final product I was thinking like "gee, if I know you were doing that or adding all these other sounds or ..... I'd have done something different." Often, but then I'm seriously self critical and always looking for what went wrong even when nothing went wrong. check out some comedy I've done: http://louhasspoken.tumblr.com/ My Unitarian Jihad Name: Brother Broadsword of Enlightened Compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipclone 1 Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 sorry A string, you don`t go through a whole day of recording before deciding whether it`s happening or not, unless it`s your studio or someone else is paying. The guy is a very busy gigging/recording person, he`s in four different bands. He brought one bass. Yes, I hired him on his ability to work through the arrangements. But if it`s `his sound`, why bother mentioning that the strings are old, at least in that way? shouldn`t it be more like, "I like that punchy, old string sound?" that`s not what he said. Yeah maybe I should have done more research, that`s not easy in a big metro scene like Tokyo, also drives the cost through the roof. If it were me I`d have a CD of some snippets of things I had worked on, preferably covers of course. You hire me, this is what you get. But hey, shouldn`t the style of music speak to that? I mean, one of these songs is a reggae beat number, He had a CD-that should be enough, yes? Same old surprises, brand new cliches- Skipsounds on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmo115 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I agree with you. The guy should have had at least one other bass with him. Those darn bass players, can't live with 'em and you can't shoot 'em. When are you going to share the fruits of your recordings, Skip?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A String Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Don't get me wrong, I'm not entirely defending the guy. It's just that when I get hired to do studio work, I get a tape of the song or some sheet music. From there I decide what sound suits the song best and try to bring stuff for that sound. I suppose that guy should have been better prepared, but I really belive that it was your resposibility to let him know ahead of time if you had special sound requirements. If a band or producer asks me to have a bright bass guitar sound, I will put on new strings for them. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger85 Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 For what's finished, I like musicalhair's idea of doubling the bass with guitar or synth if it fits the sound you're looking for. Anyway, good luck on your project. ...touched down in the land of the Delta Blues.....in the middle of the pouring rain.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Red 67 Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 New interview question for Bass Players. I have a bass with flat wounds, one that's really bright, one that's really jazzy sounding, and a line 6 bass pod, and tube pre amps. Not every one is going to do anything more just show up and play. Big Red's Ride Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipclone 1 Posted August 31, 2004 Author Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by cosmo115: I agree with you. The guy should have had at least one other bass with him. Those darn bass players, can't live with 'em and you can't shoot 'em. When are you going to share the fruits of your recordings, Skip??a fair question-I guess I need to enlist a bit of aid in getting the sounds online. My full time work onslaught starts tomorrow but I`m workin on it, as soon as I do I`ll post it on a new thread, protocol be darned. Same old surprises, brand new cliches- Skipsounds on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipclone 1 Posted August 31, 2004 Author Share Posted August 31, 2004 anyway, I still have some tweaking to do. In fact I discovered a couple of days ago that, to my own surprise, only one of the songs has already been copyrighted, I`ll post that one first. Same old surprises, brand new cliches- Skipsounds on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Red 67 Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Frinkism This site offers copyright to it's members and it is free and it is fun. Big Red's Ride Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afro_Man Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 You're really pushing this frinkism thingy aren't you big red. I just want to know, if he hadn't mentioned the strings being old (which is what alot of bassists like) would you have posted this? If you really want the bright sound just turn down the mids and bass on the bass line mix, cos thats how i do it. Nic "i must've wrote 30 songs the first weekend i met my true love ... then she died and i got stuck with this b****" - Father of the Pride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipclone 1 Posted August 31, 2004 Author Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by Afro_boy: You're really pushing this frinkism thingy aren't you big red. I just want to know, if he hadn't mentioned the strings being old (which is what alot of bassists like) would you have posted this? If you really want the bright sound just turn down the mids and bass on the bass line mix, cos thats how i do it. NicIf he hadn`t mentioned it I might have posted something about getting more highs into the mix. But I suspect it`s not the same, I don`t want to cut the entire bottom end out to get more sparkle. That`s been a chronic annoyance with earlier projects Same old surprises, brand new cliches- Skipsounds on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Red 67 Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 FREE copyrights and online space to store your music! I would have stoped talking about it looooooooong ago if I didn't think it was well worth telling you guy's about. I will stop at any time. If asked, the mean time: We need more music for the online radio broadcast that we are doing. Plus: an artist is an artist. I don't beleive that a brush is any better or worse then a guitar or bass or drum or keys. I also know that alot of musicians do other kinds of art. Last: you have no idea how cool it has been to watch this grow to the point that I can listen to my sloppy improv on the broad cast while I type on this forum! Big Red's Ride Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afro_Man Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by skipclone 1: But I suspect it`s not the same, I don`t want to cut the entire bottom end out to get more sparkle. That`s been a chronic annoyance with earlier projectsDon't cut out all the bottom end, just a slight dip on bass and mids on only the bass lines, that'll get that crunchy tone back without causing too many problems. "i must've wrote 30 songs the first weekend i met my true love ... then she died and i got stuck with this b****" - Father of the Pride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Red 67 Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 By the way I talk to them about the forum here all the time too. "Crosstalk"? Big Red's Ride Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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