Wewus432 Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 I think a standard Les Paul is 25 1/2 inches, and a standard Strat is 24 3/4 inches, and these are the most popular scale lengths, and it's also a big part of the reason a LP sounds the way it does, and a Strat sounds the way it does. What do you guys know about this most fascinating of subjects? [Edited by Forum Elves] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Originally posted by TheWewus: I think a standard Les Paul is 25 1/2 inches, and a standard Strat is 24 3/4 inches, and these are the most popular scale lengths, and it's also a big part of the reason a LP sounds the way it does, and a Strat sounds the way it does. What do you guys know about this most fascinating of subjects? [Edited by Forum Elves]It's the other way around. Most Gibsons (including the Les Paul) have 24.75" scale lengths. Most Fenders have 25.5" scale lengths. That's one reason why Fenders are "twangier" (the other is the bolt on neck). Most Danelectros, PRSi and Carvins use a 25" scale length. Scale length has a huge impact on a guitar's tone and feel. "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Strat Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 I think that the Fender Mustang has a 24" scale. They've got short necks. The Duo-Sonic had a 22 1/2" scale. BlueStrat a.k.a. "El Guapo" ...Better fuzz through science... http://geocities.com/teleman28056/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtual Jim Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Actually, the Duo-sonic and Music Masters came in both 22.5" and 24" scales circa 68 and on. I know, because I have a "white" (although it's yellowed) 72 Musicmaster. Pretty interesting guitars once you do some modifications. Mine sounds like a cross between a fat tele and a snotty lp yet plays like a strat and doesn't look like any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted July 28, 2004 Author Share Posted July 28, 2004 posted by Gabriel E: It's the other way around. Most Gibsons (including the Les Paul) have 24.75" scale lengths. Most Fenders have 25.5" scale lengths. Right, thanks for the correction. My Baby Taylor has a 22 3/4 in. scale which I like, for the lower tension, it's very easy to play, after playing a guitar with a longer scale. I'd like to have an electric guitar with that length scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werewolf by Night Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 I used to have a Peavey T-15 that had a scale-length of 23&1/2". I had to go to a set of "elevens" for strings, they would get so floppy and buzz against the frets with "nines"! I've been stuck on heavy gauge strings ever since, I string my Les Paul up with an .011" through .050" set. Shorter scale guitars will have more fundamental and less harmonic overtones in their tone, and sound fatter, rounder, and warmer; longer scale guitars will have more harmonic overtones and a less dominating fundamental, sounding twangier, stringier, and more "piano-like". Of course, everything else about a guitar's design and materials will have an effect on the total sonic character traits of that guitar, including string type and gauge. But the scale-length will be the first in line to dictate the basic voicing of a guitar. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftyBlues Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Excellent thread, thank you. I knew that guitars had different length necks but never gave much thought to how it affects the sound of the instrument. Bruce I was born at night but I wasn't born last night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werewolf by Night Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 They do it with pianos, too: pianists who favor a warmer timbre in the upper register like "baby grand" pianos or even an upright, while those who dig rich, powerful, complex tones in the lower register will opt for a full-sized grand-piano, or the likes of the Bosendorfer. Also, compare the tones of short- and long-scale electric basses... Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Strat Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 I got me a hankerin' fer a Duo-Sonic... Mmmm Hmmm.... BlueStrat a.k.a. "El Guapo" ...Better fuzz through science... http://geocities.com/teleman28056/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug osborne Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Warmoth makes a bolt-on conversion neck, providing a short Gibson-like scale for a Fender-like guitar. I'll let you know how it works when I'm through building mine! Doug Osborne Music on Bandcamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Strat Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Originally posted by Doug Osborne: Warmoth makes a bolt-on conversion neck, providing a short Gibson-like scale for a Fender-like guitar. I'll let you know how it works when I'm through building mine!Do they make ond for even shorter scale lengths, like say 24" or 22.5"? Of course, if I'm going to go through all that trouble I may as well just buy or build a Mustang. BlueStrat a.k.a. "El Guapo" ...Better fuzz through science... http://geocities.com/teleman28056/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted July 29, 2004 Author Share Posted July 29, 2004 So point is, the longer the scale, the higher the tension on the strings, and on the bridge of the guitar. The length of the scale is one of the major factors affecting the sound of any guitar. The other factors that affect tension on the strings, and therefore the sound of the guitar are, flat or sculpted top; A sculpted top creates more downbearing on the bridge and soundboard, thus affecting the sound. Angle of the headstock; The greater the angle at the headstock, the more downbearing at the top nut, thus affecting the sound, and Termination of the strings: A string through body style termination will also create more downbearing on the bridge, and thus affect the sound of the guitar. Those four things, length of the scale, sculpted or flat top, angle of headstock, and termination of strings, are the major factors in regard to string tension, but of course there are many more things that make a guitar sound like it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Strat Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Originally posted by TheWewus: So point is, the longer the scale, the higher the tension on the strings, and on the bridge of the guitar. The length of the scale is one of the major factors affecting the sound of any guitar. The other factors that affect tension on the strings, and therefore the sound of the guitar are, flat or sculpted top; A sculpted top creates more downbearing on the bridge and soundboard, thus affecting the sound. Angle of the headstock; The greater the angle at the headstock, the more downbearing at the top nut, thus affecting the sound, and Termination of the strings: A string through body style termination will also create more downbearing on the bridge, and thus affect the sound of the guitar. Those four things, length of the scale, sculpted or flat top, angle of headstock, and termination of strings, are the major factors in regard to string tension, but of course there are many more things that make a guitar sound like it does.Electronics are a huge factor as well. For pickups: 1) Number of turns on the coil 2) Magnet size, strength, and field shape 3) Wire diameter 4) Coil capacitance 5) Coil inductance 6) Cover material, thickness, and area 7) Wiring options (two or four wires) Also, the value of the potentiometers and capacitors as well as the way everything is physically wired makes a difference. BlueStrat a.k.a. "El Guapo" ...Better fuzz through science... http://geocities.com/teleman28056/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werewolf by Night Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Look at it this way: on a longer string, harmonic overtone series vibrations have more "breathing space" along the string; they are like vibrational "loops" that are fractions of the available length of string. Hence, they'll ring out more clearly and with a longer duration. Shorter strings will have less "breathing space" along their lengths for harmonic overtone series "loops", so the fundamental pitch is more predominant. A longer length of string will have better intonation, too. The longer string will have less of the stiff, non-fundamental "dead-space"- similar to the "node" one creates when playing a "harmonic" on a string- right in front of the bridge (and nut or fret, on its other end), and more of its length will be its "speaking length". A shorter string will likely have a stiffer "dead-space" right there in front of the bridge, etc. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted July 29, 2004 Author Share Posted July 29, 2004 There are of course points where the acoustical,and electronic properties, of a guitar do affect each other in strange ways, which makes it even more interesting. I'm not prepared to go into that but it is something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werewolf by Night Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Originally posted by TheWewus: "There are of course points where the acoustical,and electronic properties, of a guitar do affect each other in strange ways, which makes it even more interesting. I'm not prepared to go into that but it is something to think about."Yes, it is! tchipman, answering my asking how the 24&3/4" scale neck he recently put on his Strat sounded and felt: Originally posted by tchipman: "I'm getting used to it. It does sound warmer, fuller, not quite as bitey. At first my fingers were all over the place. It's a very small neck. Narrow and slim, and of course the scale is shorter. It is way more comfortable for my left hand..." -Tim Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtual Jim Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Originally posted by bluestrat: I got me a hankerin' fer a Duo-Sonic... Mmmm Hmmm.... http://marcel.f2hosting.com/mmds/ Salivate, motherfucker! Salivate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Strat Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 quote:Originally posted by DC Jim: quote:Originally posted by bluestrat: I got me a hankerin' fer a Duo-Sonic... Mmmm Hmmm.... BlueStrat a.k.a. "El Guapo" ...Better fuzz through science... http://geocities.com/teleman28056/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted July 29, 2004 Author Share Posted July 29, 2004 Originally posted by DC Jim: Originally posted by bluestrat: I got me a hankerin' fer a Duo-Sonic... Mmmm Hmmm.... http://marcel.f2hosting.com/mmds/ Salivate, motherfucker! Salivate!Check this out- a DuoSonic on ebay . Are they making Duosonic's in Mexico? I'd love to have one of those guitars. I'm not sure about this Son Of Kesey guy though. What is up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Originally posted by bluestrat: I got me a hankerin' fer a Duo-Sonic... Mmmm Hmmm.... Here's a blurry photo of my '58: \'58 Duo-Sonic Nya Nya! "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMcGuitar Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Originally posted by Caevan O'Shite: Look at it this way: on a longer string, harmonic overtone series vibrations have more "breathing space" along the string; they are like vibrational "loops" that are fractions of the available length of string. Hence, they'll ring out more clearly and with a longer duration. Shorter strings will have less "breathing space" along their lengths for harmonic overtone series "loops", so the fundamental pitch is more predominant. A longer length of string will have better intonation, too. The longer string will have less of the stiff, non-fundamental "dead-space"- similar to the "node" one creates when playing a "harmonic" on a string- right in front of the bridge (and nut or fret, on its other end), and more of its length will be its "speaking length". A shorter string will likely have a stiffer "dead-space" right there in front of the bridge, etc.Thanks, Caev! I never really knew (or, for that matter gave much thought to) why the different scale lengths respond so differently. I just wrote it off as a function of the tension difference. Man - you know everything. May all your thoughts be random! - Neil www.McFaddenArts.com www.MikesGarageRocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdog114 Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mdog114/Picture_027.jpg Real men play 28.625" scale guitars! "Never back-up more than you have to" REAL MEN PLAY TELECASTERS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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