MadStrum Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Currently, I have a passive acoustic pickup that stretches across the sound hole... There are other acoustic pickups that go inside the guitar, and others than go under the saddle... what advantages do these differently placed pickups offer (better sound?) ? Is it worth it sending my Seagull M6 Spruce for an operation for a active pickup with onboard EQ? The reason is that my currently passive acoustic is rather weak and a bit noisy when the volume is turned up.. Thanks. Pier. * Godin Freeway Classic * Seagull M6 * Timothy S10J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Magnetic pickups like yours are excellent for high spl stages because they reject a lot of feedback. However, they aren't known for accurate acoustic timbres which can suck if you're playing solo or in an acoustic group. They shine, however, when played through regular guitar amps (rather than a PA or specific acoustic guitar amp). Under the saddle pickups sound more like an acoustic guitar... if it's a decent quality pickup and it's setup right. But under the saddle pickups often tend to sound fundamental. That is, they don't always reproduce harmonics as well, significantly changing the timbre. I use an L.R. Baggs ribbon pickup. It's wonderful. Piezo, but made of crushed crystals which seem to make for a more even timbre than most piezos. Also, it is fitted with a preamp that allows me to add/subtract +/-12dB of treble, bass, and a sweepable mid along with a master volume. This provides far more output than a magnetic pickup. These still reject quite a bit of feedback as well. With many under saddle systems, you can add an onboard condenser mic. These capture the harmonic content well, but are extremely susceptible to feedback. Fortunately, most preamps for these systems allow you to balance between the piezo pickup and the mic. If necessary, you can turn off the mic. In the past few years, several systems have been released utilizing direct transducers that mount other than beneath the saddle. L.R. Baggs' I-beam is supposed to be very good as is Taylor Guitars' newest system which utilizes 3 sensors to pickup the widest range of timbres from their guitars. The luthier who installed my ribbon swears by the I-beam and there should be plenty of sources for info on the Taylor system, although it may not be available for aftermarket installation. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy d Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Amplifying an acoustic is always a series of trade-offs between price, complexity, accuracy, and feedback rejection. Only you can decide how to make those compromises. here are strengths and weaknesses of the varrious systems Magnetic - stregth - feedback rejection, simple installation, great bass response, the good ones (Sunrise, M1, a few others) sound great. weaknesses - look like a magnetic, can get in the way of some fingerpicking, have an "electric" sound to the top end, cheap ones sound poor under-the-saddle: s - popular, reasonable feedback rejection, looks like an acoustic, under good circumstances sound fairly accurate. w - some guitars just don't like them, strange attack of note, quacky midrange, and harsh highs, installation can be much trickier than one would think external mic: s - most accurate sound. w - feedback, low volume, and you can't move internal mike: s - inside guitar and *can* sound pretty accurate. w- in most installations they are woofy and feedback a lot top mounted transducer: wide variety of price points and quality, installation is simple but finding the best spot can be tedious, best ones sound very accurate w - low feedback rejection, finding the right spot multiple source systems: s - you get the strengths of more than one type of system and cover up the weaknesses w - cost and complexity Most acoustic pickups require a good pre-amp... which adds more money and complexity check out what your favorite players are using and listen critically when listening to acoustic guitars live - do you like the sound of their system? And ask what it is. There are great choices in each category but it really does depend on which compromises you can/want to make. On my Lowden, I use a Sunrise magnetic and a McIntyre top mount through a Raven blender. Take a listen at http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/alexisdmusic.htm and you can hear what my rig sounds like. Roy Roy http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/alexisdmusic.htm "once it stops bein' a mystery it stops bein' true" David Mowaljarlai - Ngarinyin Aboriginal Elder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Note to self..."Remember you were gonna put a pickup on your 12 string?" "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadStrum Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 Let's say I get something like the LRBaggs I-beam plus an onboard eq (I-beam Onboard) mentioned somewhere else here in the forum. I think it is an internal pickup. They have to cut up my seagull rite? My question is how much do they have to cut? It sounds kind of scary to me .. Another reason why I want to get a good pickup is that in my room, I record track by track, and every track contributes some noise (my room is not soundproof). If I have a pickup, I won't need to mic my guitar and put the output straight to the mixer. Thanks. Pier. * Godin Freeway Classic * Seagull M6 * Timothy S10J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak Lander Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 The hole won't be too big & a qualified tech will get it right. Don't forget, regardless of what pickup system you end up with, it ain't going to be like the sound out of the amp. You'll have to do some program tweakinging. Our Joint "When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it." The Duke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Originally posted by MadStrum: Let's say I get something like the LRBaggs I-beam plus an onboard eq (I-beam Onboard) mentioned somewhere else here in the forum. I think it is an internal pickup. They have to cut up my seagull rite? My question is how much do they have to cut? It sounds kind of scary to me .. Another reason why I want to get a good pickup is that in my room, I record track by track, and every track contributes some noise (my room is not soundproof). If I have a pickup, I won't need to mic my guitar and put the output straight to the mixer. Thanks. Pier.Unless you don't have a hole for the output jack where the endpin of your guitar is, they won't have to cut your guitar up at all. The I-Beam sticks to the bridge plate on the underside of the top with an adhesive strip. Sounds mighty acoustic, too. But if you intend to track direct with the guitar, I'd go for a multi-element pickup, one with a magnetic, piezo, and condensor mic. It's just more natural sounding. Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak Lander Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Picker, I think MadStrum is referring to the I beam "On Board" system. It requires a hole for the preamp as well as the output jack that replaces the end pin. MadStrum, you should also look at their iMix system. Dual pickups, the transducer and an undersaddle pickup. Our Joint "When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it." The Duke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadStrum Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 Looked at the prices of the Ibeam and the Imix systems at lrbaggs's web site... the prices are a bit steep to justify putting them in my SGD$500 seagull.. Should I just wait and get another acoustic with a good pickup built in instead? Pier. * Godin Freeway Classic * Seagull M6 * Timothy S10J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy d Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Pier, Waiting depends on how much you like your seagull. If you really like it, it might be worth spending some cash on it, knowing that you won't get it back in a resale. If you get a system mounted that requires a side cut, that will cost you some cash for the installation plus the cost of the system. An I-beam with the endpin pre-amp is a very easy install. Personally, I really like the M1. It is passive, can be moved to another guitar very easily and gives something of the advantages of a dual source system with a surface transducer and a mag. One of my friends who is trained as a classical player and tours on acoustic was a beta tester for it. It is a well thought out pickup that sounds very, very, very good for the money. Going price is about $150. It is a bit less feedback resistant than a Sunrise and you don't have te ability to do a lot of balancing between the two sounds (it senses the top and the strings) but it sounds very good - did I say that before roy Roy http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/alexisdmusic.htm "once it stops bein' a mystery it stops bein' true" David Mowaljarlai - Ngarinyin Aboriginal Elder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funk Jazz Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 i had an i-beam installed in a classical then on a selmer style guitar, and they are REALLY prone to feedback. i wouldn't recommend them. if you don't want to spend a lot of dough, the fishman matrix under-saddle piezo is a good choice. an active system is better, and worth the money. especially if it isn't a critical application. i wouldn't spend half of the guitar's value on a pickup, you won't get that much back in resale value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar Geezer Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Deja Vu...Just read George Gruhns June newsletter. CLONK It's about Acoustic Instrument Amplification . . . http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v300/funk_jazz/cat-squirrel2.jpg Nice Job FJ Lynn G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadStrum Posted July 6, 2004 Author Share Posted July 6, 2004 Thanks for the helpful replies. I've decided to go for a LRBaggs Element undersaddle pickup with a microEQ.. now if my local guitar shop's stock could arrive quick.. Pier. * Godin Freeway Classic * Seagull M6 * Timothy S10J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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