monkey77 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Get a load of this! http://www.gibson.com/products/epiphone/forum/toast.asp?sub=show&action=posts&fid=2&tid=95351 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Bizarre, but there's nothing in that photograph to seal that that guitar is in fact an Epiphone product. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey77 Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 Click on the link in the first thread for the whole story and other pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Wow, that is sick. I amp not defending Epi/Gibson by any means, but there is a bunch of product conterfeiting that goes on in asia, and it wouldn't surprise me if that were the case with this specific guitar. If the tops really were made of MDF, considering all the guys (and girls) who change pickups and have them changed by pros on their recently acquired Epi's, it seems like someone would have noticed that and raised a big enuf stink that we would all have smelled it by now. First, it would not be that hard to tell by looking at the cavity walls with a pickup out, not to mention looking at the screw holes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowbell Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Holy crap..... I dunno what to think about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeleyEstates Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 this post makes me feel like epiphone crawled through my eyes from the internet and took a crap in my brain. i disapprove, but then i always have disapproved of epiphone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave da Dude Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Why take the time to laminate such a lame ( ) material? This is truly strange! Has anyone learned any more? Dave the Dumbfounded Gotta' geetar... got the amp. There must be SOMEthing else I... "need". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiC Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Check out all the nasty photos on page 3: CLICK Sad indeed "Treat your wife with honor, respect, and understanding as you live together so that you can pray effectively as husband and wife." 1 Peter 3:7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarzan Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 i prefer flamed particle board tops with sunburst finishes. why hide such a nice sawdust top? http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=193274 rock it, i will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklava Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Since 1954, Les Paul Customs have been carving rock history with their powerful tone and prolonged sustain. Based on the original Les Paul design, the Custom has 2 humbuckers, gold hardware, set mahogany neck, and a rosewood fingerboard with block inlays. Mahogany/alder body and top. Body, neck, and headstock binding. 2 volume and 2 tone controls with a 3-way toggle switch. Get a Custom and add your own chapter to the story of rock guitar. Limited lifetime warranty. This is a epi ad on MF,this is why I bought the real deal. The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Hmmm...well, there's a headstock photo. The only way to be sure that this guitar wasn't counterfeit from the get go would be to get a bunch of 'em and sacrifice 'em to see. And I'm not about to do that. As Guitarzan said...if you buy one with a flamed top, that'd be a little harder to fake. My "Dot" has a clear maple finish. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMcGuitar Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Originally posted by Dave th Dude: Why take the time to laminate such a lame ( ) material? This is truly strange! Has anyone learned any more? Dave the DumbfoundedI agree. Why use masonite? It's a real bitch to work with in terms of any kind of carving - remember, this thing is an archtop. For a flat surface, fine (look at Danelectros). If they are just trying to save $$, it would be easier to just use a cheaper wood. I smell a rat here somewhere... May all your thoughts be random! - Neil www.McFaddenArts.com www.MikesGarageRocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarzan Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 man i was trying to be funny...you know "flamed partical board top" how about bookmatched MDF!! seriously that guitar could be explained in a number of ways, maybe someone (shady) at the factory is taking reject pieces and sticking them together and selling them at a shady dealer. it may be a one off that someone popped off to get some quick bucks. but the first course i would have taken is contacted a Gibson rep. to see if it was a real epiphone. my first theory would be real easy considering how many epiphones are pumped out of the factories, someone would just need to put aside parts and reject necks and bodies etc, the partical board may be an improvisition to complete a body blank that never recieved a carve. when it comes to scams there are alot of creative people out there. http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=193274 rock it, i will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hound Dog Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I'm going to go home and hug my guitar! Yum, Yum! Eat em up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werewolf by Night Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 That isn't masonite or similar material bent, carved, or pressed into shape; this is obviously some material that was molded into the shape of a carved-top, while it was still "wet". If you read through the entire thread, and see the other photos (and even clonk on the links to still more), it looks real incriminating for Epiphone-Korea. There would be little motive for making counterfeit Epi's, as there are other similarly priced LP knock-offs available, there and elsewhere. (There'd be no money in it.) There would be little motive for faking this whole thing on Blissful's/Dorothy's part, as the amount of effort and time and money just wouldn't be worth it. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headlow Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Was just on the Epiphone customer survice forum. The same 'cardboard' thread has been posted there as well, and up to now nobody from Epi's customer service department has replied to the post. What does that tell you? I was thinking of buying an Epi Les Paul.......not to sure now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarzan Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 if this is what epiphone is doing then i would put the real blame on Gibson for the way they market them not for the way the factory builds them. i can't recall the exact wording that the ads use.. is it arched top or carved top? if they claim carved top then i would sue their asses off!!! how about.."oatmeal top"!!! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=193274 rock it, i will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarzan Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 damn i just remembered the old disclaimer most makers use.." the maker reserves the right to change specifications without notice" or something like that. don't you just hate corporate mentality? sell image and forget the substance. its all about bucks. one reason i have a strong love for Godin. they seem more like makers used to be when the pride was still strong in ones own product. http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=193274 rock it, i will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batterypowered Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Originally posted by Caevan O'Shite: There would be little motive for making counterfeit Epi's, as there are other similarly priced LP knock-offs available, there and elsewhere. (There'd be no money in it.)I'm going to have to disagree there. There are a ton of LP knock-offs available, sure, but Epiphone is a division of Gibson. That's only once-removed, and for better or for worse, that matters to consumers. In short, Epis will sell more than similarly-priced LP rips of other names. I wouldn't say that there's a TON of money in it for whoever would make the fakes, but there would be money in it, and we should all know by now that if someone can make a little bit of money doing something like thisk they will. It's how the world is, it seems. I personally think it's fake. Epiphone's been making OK guitars for many years, and like them or not, there's never been any claim of this before. If there are more offical Epiphone products out there like this, I'm pretty sure we would've found out by now. twoblock.net batterypowered.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey77 Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 More in-depth info on this guitar here. Scroll down. http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75318 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowbell Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Turns out it was a fake! Jim Rosenburg stopped by to say it was a false Epiphone. http://www.gibson.com/products/epiphone/forum/toast.asp?sub=show&action=posts&fid=5&tid=95346&page=4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werewolf by Night Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Forgive me if I come off as argumentative here... Organized criminals- like counterfeiters (in the broadest sense of the term)- aren't generally known for their interest in marginal profits for maximum work; Factory infrastructural factions- management teams and heads of various levels of production, 'wheels within wheels'- are. As example, I've seen first-hand how people will do all manner of shady things to meet (sometimes unrealistic) deadlines; impress their "superiors"; cut cost and appear to be a profitable, efficient subdivision; use otherwise worthless parts; get out of horrendous problems they inherited from their predecessors... While not a Les Paul styled-model, an Epiphone guitar that I rewired for a friend years ago- a vaguely "Strat"-like bolt-on necked guitar from the '80s- had a completely plywood body core with a "contoured" top and back made up of that same slop shown in those Epi' LP Custom pics, thickly coated with opaque red paint. It was shiny and kinda cool (if fugly, by my aesthetics) and had a whammy-bar and all-black hardware and... sounded like $h!t, plugged or unplugged. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave da Dude Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Tedster, As Guitarzan said...if you buy one with a flamed top, Take a look at Samick guitars (on-line). They feature some beautiful flamed and quilted tops. They admit to "hi-tech" tops. I believe that they are decals or some such, but they're (kinda') honest about it. Dave Gotta' geetar... got the amp. There must be SOMEthing else I... "need". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werewolf by Night Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Originally posted by Cowbell: "Turns out it was a fake! Jim Rosenburg stopped by to say it was a false Epiphone." http://www.gibson.com/products/epiphone/forum/toast.asp?sub=show&action=po sts&fid=5&tid=95346&page=4 Well, I may have to admit being at least partially wrong, then. And, actually, I'd love to be dead wrong, and find that everyone from stem to stern at all Epiphone facilities was without blame! If true counterfeits (oxymoron, huh?), they went to the trouble of either using Epi' pickups, or stamping the underside as such. Perhaps some back-door black-marketeering has been going on amongst some Epi' factory personel? And the bulk of the guitar's construction is still fairly labor intensive... it just seems like too much for too little to me. It'd be similarly lucrative to simply put their own brand-name on it, while (and where) they can still get away with selling "Gibson knock-offs"... Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 If you guys don't mind, I'll just go back to playing my Silvertone "Danelectro" copy from 1965. At least I KNOW that was made outta cardboard. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werewolf by Night Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Originally posted by Tedster: "If you guys don't mind, I'll just go back to playing my Silvertone "Danelectro" copy from 1965. At least I KNOW that was made outta cardboard."In the case of Danelectros, though, using "Masonite" works! A relatively thin sheet, flat or bent, uniform in thickness, on a hollowed/chambered frame, actually sounds fine. Especially within the context of the Dano's electric guitar design, and with A larger mass of it (sculpted glue-and-wood goop), however, especially when glued-down all across a slab of tone-wood, has resonant and enhancing sounds better than, say, mud... Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Strat Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 MDF (or Masonite) is a material known to have very poor resonant properties. It doesn't resonate well; good for car speaker cabinets, bad for guitars. Buyer beware. I believe that the guitar in question isn't authorized by Epiphone, but it's probably one that slipped out the back door of the factory and was completed and sold by an unscrupulous dealer. Unfortunately, I think that the cute Korean girl that bought the guitar isn't going to get her money back. BlueStrat a.k.a. "El Guapo" ...Better fuzz through science... http://geocities.com/teleman28056/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc taz Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Virtually every Epi Les Paul I've played has resonated and sounded close enough to the Gibson counterparts. This is just an unfortunate story, and I don't think it's as bad as the thread there suggests. If it were, I'd think Gibson would have dumped the Epiphone brand by now. It'll be interesting to see if Gibson releases some sort of response over this slip, official or otherwise. sevenstring.org profile my flickr page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar Geezer Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Quoting Jim "Epi" Rosenberg President of Epiphone Division Dear Epiphone Customers, The image of the guitar below is NOT an Epiphone guitar. While it might have "Epiphone" on the headstock, it is a COUNTERFEIT. As you can see, this unsuspecting person purchased their guitar in Korea. Just last week we were notified that Korean police (as they have done many times in the past) raided the infamous Nakwon Arcade in Seoul, Korea. This musical instrument mall is notorious for purchasing and selling counterfeit as well as OFF-QUALITY or REJECTED guitars produced by factories in Korea. Because they cannot export them into the USA, Europe, Japan, etc., these factories sell them "out the back-door" within Korea and ultimately, to unsuspecting customers. Epiphone was and is NOT the only brand being illegally made and sold in Korea. There are and were other famous guitar brand names ceased by the police and facing the same counterfeiting problems. As a result of this inherit market problem, Epiphone does not currently have nor have we had in the past, an active authorized Korean distributor. We have verified that we have NO RECORD of that guitar with that serial number being sold by our company. Epiphone does NOT use nor have we EVER used particle-board or any other similar materials in our guitars. With 131 years of quality and integrity on the line, there is NO WAY we would put that at risk by using inferior materials. On several occasions in the past, we have worked closely with the Korean police to locate and identify counterfeiters in Korea. This has led to many guitars being confiscated and in many cases, arrests. While we wish this was not the case and we are doing all we can to stop it, this type of illegal activity is hard to eliminate completely. Therefore, if you do travel to or live in Korea, please understand there is a big risk when purchasing a brand-name guitar or other musical instrument. If you are purchasing a new Epiphone from an authorized dealer in the USA, Canada, Europe, Japan or other "export" country, rest assured that these are high-quality instruments worthy of the name Epiphone - carrying our limited Lifetime Warranty and backed by the Gibson Musical Instruments. Thank you and if you have any question or concerns, please email me personally at jim.rosenberg@gibson.com. Best Regards, Jim "Epi" Rosenberg ...and remember that a few Korean "Businesses", gangs, Tongs or whatever --specialize in "Counterfeit" merchandise, whether it be Dooney and Burke purses, Nike shoes, Gucci watches etc... It is a BIG business (however illegal) My .02¢ Lynn G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 As far as the motive for conterfeiting guitars - I agree with the "once removed" from Gibson statement; bottom line is that the conterfeiters are cashing in on the marketing dollars spent by someone else, and the reputation of an established brand name. That is a pretty significant $$ motive - I'm sure whoever made it isn't just building a couple in their basement, but in quantities large enough to make money. It could have also been produced in another asian country with even cheaper labor than Korea - maybe China or Indonesia, or...? It would not surprise me a bit if some of these have ended up in the good ol' USA and sold by some shady ebay and web retailers.... There might even be some other models out there with the flamed or quilted maple veneer tops that Epi's and most Korean guitars have. (how do they get a veneer over a carved top anyway?) Anyone who has bought an Epi LP might want to look in to one of the pickup cavities to check... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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