Acoustic Guitar: under bridge saddle, contact transducer or both?

[musicalhair]

Hey Gang,

 

I'm considering electrifying my acoustics. It seems I can use a contact mic like this:

http://www.deanmarkley.com/htmlDocs/ArtistPUpg.html

 

or an under the bridge saddle thing like this:

http://www.deanmarkley.com/htmlDocs/GoldRiver.html

 

My one is a classical so a pickup inside the sound hole don't do anying, my other has no sound hole it has f holes instead.

 

I used the very cheapest contact mic in college and I gave it away because i just couldn't stand it's sound.

 

I don't know that these particular Dean Markley models are anything to write home about, but if anyone has experience with these or similar products please let me know.

 

Also, an insight on useing say both kinds and "blending" the sounds or any other tricks I'd appreciate.

 

I'm not into like cutting up my guitars for all sorts of complicated things I'd rather go with a contact mic but my very limited experience says it won't sound that good-- does anyone have a contact mic they'd strongly recommend?

[musicalhair]

Wow, this drifted to the bottom of the page fast.

[Björn Fröberg]

I've been wondering about these things myself, so I can't help you..

 

The thing I've noticed is I don't want a magnetic soundhole pickup. I don't like their sound at all (the models I've heard) for acoustics.

[musicalhair]

I heard the Sunrise pickup is supposed sound good. When I saw Walter Parks with Stephanie Winter and then with Ritchie Havens (http://www.tblog.com/templates/index.php?bid=musicalhair&godate=06/18/04&limit) for my review of it) I thought he had a killer tone out of a taylor acoustic through the house's silverface fender. When I spoke to him he really pinned the tone on that pickup. I know the Pedulum Audio guys that make a preamp for acoutic live performance recommend the Sunrise and a mic and I think that is over a mic in and a mic out. If I remember correctly they liked the Sunrise plus either a mic inside or the Sunrise plus a mic outside. my review of Ritchie Havens with Walter Parks and Stephanie Winters

 

If that link don't work then it is the 18th of May blog

[Dak Lander]

What do you want to spend?

 

The Sunrise system is a very fine setup but pricey.

 

With you looking at the Dean Markley stuff, that contact pickup is a decent sounding pickup on some guitars and not so good on others. You will have to experiment with placement to get the optimmm tone you can get from a particular guitar. I've used one in the past with good success and tone.

 

The Gold River is not a pickup, but, rather, a preamp. It would allow you to run a piezo and a magnetic pickup together. It is supposed to also improve the tone of a piezo pickup. You would use it in conjunction with, say, Dean Markley's Sweet Spot under bridge transducer and their Pro-Mag, either together or singly.

 

I happen to have the Sweet Spot in one of my acoustics and if you have it plugged into the right amp or PA it sounds very good. If not, hang on brother. Some inputs just don't handle it very well and it can sound like absolute crap. The Gold River would likely ease that problem & now I'll have to take a hard look at it.

The Sweet Spot, like nearly all, under saddle pickups will require some guitar modification so if you're not into that, forget about it. At the very least with most pickups you'll have to have the end pin pulled, the hole drilled out and an end pin jack installed. The other option is to have a cord hanging around and getting it the way.

 

A side note: I use three different pickup systems on my acoustics. Two are installed pickups, the before mentioned Sweet Spot and a Fishman Rare Earth Single Coil Pickup. I did the installs myself so it's not a difficult task. You just have to be careful. The third is a sound hole magnetic pickup that I'll transfer between a couple of other acoustics. It's a Dean Markley Pro-Mag that's over twenty years old, and works and sounds fine. Obviously it won't work for either of your instruments.

I'm also not so sure the Sweet Spot would work on an archtop bridge/saddle though it would work on the nylon stringer.

[musicalhair]

Hey Daklander, thanks for your insight. I posted the wrong link, I didn't mean to post the Gold River thing, but this:

 

http://www.deanmarkley.com/htmlDocs/SSUtSdlPUpg.html

 

As much as I think the sunrise would be killer, a pick up in the sound hole set up I can't use because one is nylon string and the steel string has f-holes (not archtop though, it is a discontinued Alverez model).

 

I picked up the Dean Markley contact transducer and an AKG mic that clips on. The output of the contact transducer is much higher than the AKG, but I've still some tweaking to do on it.

 

I think I'm going with the contact transducer on the steel string and the clip on mic on the nylon, unless I find something else tomorrow.

 

I guess I could tolerate a little hole or two being drilled, but not a whole square chunk taken out of the sides to fit a bunch of knobs. Not that I'm like "against" that but I know even though my guitars aren't the best I've gotten used to their sound and I think too much carpentry will change it.

 

As I tweak these I bet I'll get useful sounds, but I'm still fishing for more ideas because honestly I suspect I'll get more than one thing on each guitar and blend them.

 

should be the dean markley under the saddle pickup

[musicalhair]

The Dean Markley contact transducer has some output to it! That is so much louder than the AKG mic thing.

 

But, I'd like the chord to plug into the contact transducer instead of being permenately attached.

 

I'd also like the AKG mic contraption to have a plug on it to then connect it to the powersupply. This thing like hangs out on my knee while I'm playing (I play sitting down, because I'm not original enough to do something beyond what my teachers taught me to do) but otherwise it is clumsy. The have some kind of bungy chord thingy that is supposed to secure it by connecting the bungy thing to the strap pegs. Of my two acoustics, I only have one strap peg, at the base of the steel string. So, that contraption don't do me any favors. I'm happy with the tone of the AKG thing, so I think I'll keep futzing with it.

 

I know however that I'm not done tweaking this set up.

[roy d]

On the Lowden list there are a lot of folk who are really excited about the K&K systems. I've heard them once in a concert and it is a nice sounding system. Most of the folk on the Lowden list don't feel that a microphone adds much to the sound and prefer just the multiple tranducers model. http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html

Personally, I don't care for under-the-saddle pickups expecially on steel string guitars but sometimes the surface mount transducers can be feedback prone. My preference is an option that isn't open to you - a Sunrise and a surface mount through a Raven PMB. Pay your money and pick your poison...

[roy d]

oops... I forgot to mention my favorite surface mount transducer - McIntyre. I have one in each of my guitars and in my daughters harp.

http://www.mcintyrepickups.com/macindex.html

roy

[monkey77]

Call me old school but I prefer the old Fishman Matrix. Never let me down and sounds as natural as anything I've heard.

[musicalhair]

Hey Roy D and Ktolley thanks for posting. I'm checking out those options, each one. I'm going to finally get serious about amplifing my existing acoustics.

 

If I work on it I can have a pretty serious classical repertoire worth performing solo, most of it I performed regularly when I was in college. I'm playing in a band now that will have many chances to play acoustic things like fundraisers for Dennis Kucinich this past wednesday and tonight.

 

And I always put it off thinking I'm going pull $15,000 or so out of my butt and get two top of the line Pimentel guitars-- steel and nylon-- with electronics in them. Ten or so years later that still ain't happened, so "love the one your with" as they say.

 

How about pre-amps and amps? As I check out the K&K and McIntyre sites they may say things they recommend, but any one have any insight as to the usefulness of various acoustic preamps or the dedicated acoustic amps. My love for Rivera amps makes me think of those, but even at 55W the small Sedona looks like serious overkill.

 

The feed back thing looks a problem for me only when I switch guitars and I have to adjust volumes. The Markley contact mic/transducer thing is really hot and feeds back everytime I go to it after I play nylon-- because I'm too dense to tweak the volume right before I switch. I'm think about my own little mixer that will let me control them and shut down what I'm not using at the moment.

 

Am I the only one that needs to build a separate house for my musical equipment? It is getting tight in here.

[Dak Lander]

Originally posted by musicalhair:

I'm think about my own little mixer that will let me control them and shut down what I'm not using at the moment.

That's a good idea, use a separate cable to each guitar and channel. Once those channels are set you don't have to move them.

It's essentially what I do, plugging into my PA system if I have multiple guitars at a gig. Separate channels for Vox mic, guitar mic, guitar pickup #1, guitar pickup #2 & etc.

Works for me.

Am I the only one that needs to build a separate house for my musical equipment? It is getting tight in here.

Nope, most of use are in the same situation.

Obviously the units that roy d speaks of are high end units. Very nice that sound great. Someday...

[musicalhair]

Hey Daklander, thanks for the insight into your set up. I might go for little PA thing, low powered set up. I'm getting my solo guitar repetourie back together and should want to start playing out solo soon.

 

Thuse systems Roy D posted do look killer, and you do pay for great sound, but for solo stuff you really need great sound. With the group stuff I can get way with a little "boxy" because there's other instruments.