LED or true-bypass?

[Blue Strat]

Two effects pedals are identical except for one thing. One has a true bypass switch, but no LED indicator light to show that the effect is in use. The other has the LED indicator, but it isn't true bypass and loads the signal slightly - 250k input impedance, no more than an EB passive volume pedal. Which one would you buy?

[Teahead]

Why the choice blue? Is it a power conservation thing, or a circuit requirement? Just curious! Z Vex eventually included LEDs on his pedals because he concluded it was costing him sales.

 

He always said that the user would know fine well when his Z Vex stuff was on! That didn't seem to be enough and now he includes them. Analogman considered the Beano Boost without LED to emulate the original Rangemaster, but popular demand dictated otherwise.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, I'd love to see both, if it's possible! If not I would consider True Bypass to be more advantageous than the indicator and buffer. Is this for the Fuzz? or just general marketing?

 

Tea.

[A String]

I think tea is right. There will be a lot of people who will require an led. I could care less myself, but I think that the general population will require that little light to guide them.

[NMcGuitar]

For recording, the true by-pass is more important for me. On stage, the LED is really more important to me (assuming the effect isn't a major tone-sucker).

When I'm on stage I want to be able to tell at a glance that something is on or off (especially if the effect is more subtle, like a mild overdrive). Sometimes when playing live I'll just miss the button or hit it by accident, or something. If I can look down and immediately tell what's wrong it will interfere with my performance much less.

 

My $0.02

[doc taz]

So long as there's little to no noticeable effect on the overall tone with an effect off, I'll take the LED. I can get picky about my tone sometimes, but an LED is the least of my problems if it does happen to suck at some point. Of course, I'm not Eric Johnson.

[Blue Strat]

Originally posted by Teahead:

Is this for the Fuzz? or just general marketing?

 

Tea.

It's general marketing. A Fuzz Face has major problems with tone-sucking because of the low input impedence and needs true bypass. A 3PDT switch can be used to get both true bypass and an LED, but 3PDT's are expensive and the choices are very limited. A DPDT is cheaper, reliable, and easier to find.

 

It sounds like the LED is something people would want, even if it means no true bypass.

[Prague]

Use a jfet instead.

[Blue Strat]

Originally posted by Prague:

Use a jfet instead.

A JFET uses a different method of biasing than a BJT, and won't work in a Fuzz Face circuit. A Fuzz Face uses feedback biasing for the first stage, and I'd have to come up with an entirely new circuit in order to use the JFET. Using opamps, like a UA741, I can use 470k or 1M biasing resistors in order to keep the input impedance high.

 

JFETs are better for treble boosters and overdrive type distortions.

[synthetic]

I think true bypass is the first thing I look for in a guitar pedal. If it isn't TB, I only plug it in when needed, which means I hardly ever use it because I have to dig it out with a cable.

 

Here's a 3PDT, pretty expensive though:

 

http://www.fulltone.com/3PDT.asp

 

Maybe he'd cut you a deal on bigger numbers. Or, if you're selling guitar pedals with them installed, perhaps not.

[Blue Strat]

Originally posted by synthetic:

I think true bypass is the first thing I look for in a guitar pedal. If it isn't TB, I only plug it in when needed, which means I hardly ever use it because I have to dig it out with a cable.

 

Here's a 3PDT, pretty expensive though:

 

http://www.fulltone.com/3PDT.asp

 

Maybe he'd cut you a deal on bigger numbers. Or, if you're selling guitar pedals with them installed, perhaps not.

I've got a line on where to get some 3PDT Taiwanese switches, but the last switches I bought made in Taiwan were about 50% bad. I'll stick with the $5 Alpha DPDT's I've been buying.

[Prague]

Ooops. A jfet to activate the LED, to be complete.

[AshliMeley]

I can get picky about my tone sometimes, but an LED is the least of my problems if it does happen to suck at some point.

 

 

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[Terrell]

I can get picky about my tone sometimes, but an LED is the least of my problems if it does happen to suck at some point.

 

 

So True.

 

It's the unknowns in the pedal chain without TBP that really suck.

 

Maybe - Energize the light with the signal? :-) Might be a cool effect...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CEB]

True bypass for the most seems like snake oil to me.

[Larryz]

Welcome aboard AshliMeley! Yeah my tone sucks too, when I use the blue LED and it's much cleaner when I use the red LED...Just Kidding! This is an old thread but still a worthy subject. If I was using pedals again I might look into a bypass swithching Pedal board set up, but I'm more into multi-effects now.

[pinkjimiphoton]

Use a jfet instead.

 

as a switch, ie: google millenium bypass. it does work in pnp style pedals. then you can have true bypass with an led with a cheap dpdt footswitch.

 

or, easier, and i don't know why whoever is building it doesn't offer it, a 3pdt switch, which is the standard, and costs about 3 bux if ya buy 'em 10 at a time, no more than 5 individually.

 

ideally, you would most likely want true bypass AND an led, this is easy to implement with the industry standard 3pdt.

 

or, as suggested above, use a jfet and millenium bypass it.

check geofex.com for deets on that.

[pinkjimiphoton]

Originally posted by Prague:

Use a jfet instead.

A JFET uses a different method of biasing than a BJT, and won't work in a Fuzz Face circuit. A Fuzz Face uses feedback biasing for the first stage, and I'd have to come up with an entirely new circuit in order to use the JFET. Using opamps, like a UA741, I can use 470k or 1M biasing resistors in order to keep the input impedance high.

 

JFETs are better for treble boosters and overdrive type distortions.

 

you can use jfets in either stage of a fuzzface. you just need to adjust the biasing to the transistors. i use mosfets and jfets in fuzzes alot, my sterno face can be set up to use a fet as q1.

[pinkjimiphoton]

True bypass for the most seems like snake oil to me.

 

it is and it isn't. it really depends on how much the cables and connectors load down the signal. it gets substantial once ya have a couple pedals, i run 15 or so live, and finally added a buffer to my board after my volume pedal. you can't really run a buffer into a fuzz and not have the fuzz sound like poo, but a buffer AFTER a fuzz can be a very useful thing.

generally, use your ears. if you hear tone suck, insert buffer. go thru one pedal at a time, if it's real objectionable, you use a buffer (at least according to pete cornish). true bypass in some cases can be better..it really depends on how much signal loss is acceptable. generally, tho, TB'd pedals tend to not colour the sound as much as buffered, and in some cases are a must.

 

the combination of both technologies seems to work best for me. in my pedal chain, there's a few buffers..i left it in my wah, the klon has one, and then there's one after my volume pedal...without a buffer there, i lost way too much tone and sparkle. pretty sure some of the others also are buffered, and i know the last one in my line is..to drive the cable home.

 

signal loss now is pretty negligible. it will sound brighter now than just a 20 foot cable, and i've probably got close to 60 feet of cable between guitar and amp.

[pinkjimiphoton]

Welcome aboard AshliMeley! Yeah my tone sucks too, when I use the blue LED and it's much cleaner when I use the red LED...Just Kidding! This is an old thread but still a worthy subject. If I was using pedals again I might look into a bypass swithching Pedal board set up, but I'm more into multi-effects now.

 

believe it or not, different led's sound a lot different!! if they're used in the audio path as clippers, anyways...different colours have different breakdown voltages, some are easy to light, some not, different sizes and colors are surprisingly different!!

[Lokair]

Some led s will sound different as they are diodes of differing values and quality. As to true by pass read this decide what type of system is needed. http://www.petecornish.co.uk/case_against_true_bypass.html

 

 

Lok

[Larryz]

Welcome aboard AshliMeley! Yeah my tone sucks too, when I use the blue LED and it's much cleaner when I use the red LED...Just Kidding! This is an old thread but still a worthy subject. If I was using pedals again I might look into a bypass swithching Pedal board set up, but I'm more into multi-effects now.

 

believe it or not, different led's sound a lot different!! if they're used in the audio path as clippers, anyways...different colours have different breakdown voltages, some are easy to light, some not, different sizes and colors are surprisingly different!!

 

If you say it, I believe it Jimi...I always thought of LED's just telling us if the pedal was on or off for the most part. I'm guessing the designers must fine tune the tone(s) with the LED color based on the difference(s) they are looking for. I wonder if they would prefer the least amount of battery draw when picking the size and color?

[Lokair]

BY the way Ashlimeley response is just the the second sentence of Doctaz response above, Me thinks Ash is a BOT .

 

Lok

[A String]

BY the way Ashlimeley response is just the the second sentence of Doctaz response above, Me thinks Ash is a BOT .

 

Lok

 

No worries. I banned the account a week ago.

[pinkjimiphoton]

Welcome aboard AshliMeley! Yeah my tone sucks too, when I use the blue LED and it's much cleaner when I use the red LED...Just Kidding! This is an old thread but still a worthy subject. If I was using pedals again I might look into a bypass swithching Pedal board set up, but I'm more into multi-effects now.

 

believe it or not, different led's sound a lot different!! if they're used in the audio path as clippers, anyways...different colours have different breakdown voltages, some are easy to light, some not, different sizes and colors are surprisingly different!!

 

If you say it, I believe it Jimi...I always thought of LED's just telling us if the pedal was on or off for the most part. I'm guessing the designers must fine tune the tone(s) with the LED color based on the difference(s) they are looking for. I wonder if they would prefer the least amount of battery draw when picking the size and color?

 

used as an indicator, it has no effect on tone...but a lot of us use led's for clippers in diode clipping circuits, and the size and color then makes a huge difference...different colours take different amounts of voltage to "break down" and conduct. red 3mm's sound way different from jumbos, superbright blue ones (one of bob keeley's favs) sound different from green 5mm ones. they're all different.

 

but as for indicator lamps? absolutely zero effect on tone.

[Werewolf by Night]

used as an indicator, it has no effect on tone...but a lot of us use led's for clippers in diode clipping circuits, and the size and color then makes a huge difference...different colours take different amounts of voltage to "break down" and conduct. red 3mm's sound way different from jumbos, superbright blue ones (one of bob keeley's favs) sound different from green 5mm ones. they're all different.

 

Yhup- people forget that LED stands for Light Emitting Diode; they still function as diodes in a circuit.

 

but as for indicator lamps? absolutely zero effect on tone.

 

But they'll make you play better and swim faster...

[Larryz]

Thanks for the info Jimi...but I still wonder if the color would have an [effect] (pun intended ) on the battery drain? I don't use batteries but it might be of interest when shopping pedals for battery users...

[Werewolf by Night]

Thanks for the info Jimi...but I still wonder if the color would have an [effect] (pun intended ) on the battery drain? I don't use batteries but it might be of interest when shopping pedals for battery users...

 

Maybe a tiny little measurable bit, but not much at all.

[pinkjimiphoton]

even that can be adjusted, just use a bigger resistor for the led, can make it as low as ya want. tho some golden eared liar may say it makes a difference tonally, i'd be willing to bet they're on acid.