Guitar center comming to my town....good or bad?

[webe123]

I was going to get me some lunch in The Peoria ,IL. area where I live. So I drive to subway which is about a 10-15 minute drive from my house. I turn in off the main street onto the street that leads to subway and lo and behold I see a huge whte sign that read: Guitar Center: Comming Soon! Now I am thinking to myself.....I thought this town might be too small for them, as we already have three main dealers here that sell just about most brands.

 

Now in a way I am kinda looking forward to getting some great deals, but at the same time I kinda feel sorry for all of the main local guitar dealers around town, as I have heard too many times on different guitar forums, about guitar center moving into a town and driving out the local competition.

 

Of course, I think it could be a mixed blessing.... on the one hand there are some dealers that must think their instruments are made of pure gold (or something) for the prices they charge! But on the other hand I have gotten to know some of the smaller guitar shops and they seem to be very reasonable.

 

Well, I walk into some of these stores and they are talking to ME about it.....I didn't even bring it up in conversation. I think from what I am hearing that a lot of them sound worried, but yet trying to put on a good face about it, saying things like they don't give lessons and their guitars get scratched up and things of that nature.

 

So is guitar center comming to a town bad...good or both?? Mabye some of you that live near one can tell me what you experienced from when they opened until now. How is there service? prices? any payment plans? etc.

[doug osborne]

Always a controversial issue, and certainly a test for the local mom 'n' pops.

 

If I were one of the locals, I would open a second branch right across the street from the GC. I would figure out what GC can't do well(customer service, band instrument rental, instruction, whatever) and wait for the overflow.

 

Just sitting there in the Scotch Tape Boutique Mall, trying to match GC's price on a Mexican Strat, won't keep the independents in business.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

My town is very segmented... people don't travel much out of their neigborhoods.

 

When GC pulled into town, they opened one store in the eastern suburbs. As far as I can tell, they have had little impact on the established music stores here.

 

What was interesting about GC... it was carefully designed to blow away Dad, when he takes Jr in to look at his first instrument. (assuming that Dad did not play.)

 

Conversely, the local music stores are just regular stores, built by musicians, selling to musicians and whomever else walks in.

 

So the GC will definitely impress newbees and non-players. But most players already have developed a working relationship with one local store or another. So they will look at the specials and maybe buy the deals, but the day to day purchases will likely continue to be made in the stores that they have supported all along.

 

At least, that seems to be what has happened here.

 

Bill

[Gifthorse]

well, i would gue

[Gifthorse]

i would guess that guitar center will probably put those stores outta business in a couple years. where i live in detroit michigan, pretty much all the old classic stores i used to frequent are gone cuz of GC. personally i hate guitar center cuz the sales guys don't know whats up and the selection for electrics and amps is limited. i havent played a strat or tele at guitar center that had a good setup. the amp selection is cliche with little variation. they dont carry any stuff i want. every time i go in i ask the sales guy stuff like, "hey do you have an MXR flanger I can try?"--salesman-"no sorry we don't have those in stock, you can order one though." i like the acoustic selection.

 

there is a store in the detroit area called Huber and Breeze that is the best store I have been too. they are what guitar center SHOULD be.

 

one other thing i really dont like about guitar center is that they dont carry Peavey or G&L. Annoying. I consider peavey to be one of the best amp or guitars for teh money. people may scoff at that statement but given about 20 minutes I could sell just about any rocker on my rig which is all peavey including my guitar. none of it is 'crap' or cheaply made either. my guitar is one of the coolest axes i have ever played and it is very well made.

[guit-it]

Be afraid be very afraid! The cons always outweigh the pros. From the Mars Music debacle and the several other major outlets that copied their doomsday format, what you get is row after row of cheap shit. The beauty of the smaller store is they appreciate you as a customer and the relationships and contacts will always in the end benefit you more than saving a few bucks on a junkcaster.

[Adamixoye]

I disagree with the apparent consensus. I remember a few bad experiences I've had at mom-and-pop stores, but I've never had a truly bad experience with Guitar Center, and I never had one at Mars when it was still around.

 

At one small store, I was basically ridiculed by an old guy for wanting a custom part, while at Mars the younger staff members aimed to please, in spite of the possibility that they had less experience and/or knowledge. And that's just a maybe; I only say that because that's the criticism you'll hear. Maybe these younger guys DO have the knowledge and experience. Who knows.

 

The point? Each store is individual, whether it's a big chain store or a mom-and-pop store. Yeah, maybe the young guys at the chain stores are snot-nosed kids with no experience, but maybe the older more experienced guys with mullets at the local store are too burnt-out and bitter to care about pleasing the customer. It all depends.

 

It cuts both ways, to be sure, but the simple truth is, the original question is in error...we can't tell you what to expect, because you should really just check it out and make your own judgments.

[webe123]

I agree that it seems I am a little mixed in my feelings about getting a guitar center, but I do hope they force down the prices in the local stores that way overprice their stuff! Mabye that would be one benifit from it anyway.

[Dave da Dude]

My prediction;

 

One of the three existing shops will go out of business. Probably because they were financially marginal anyway, and would have gone out of business in the next few years anyway whether Guitar Center moved in or not.

 

The expensive one will come down in price, but not enough to retain all of their customers. They will let the most knowledgable salesman go and he will go to the third place that will continue to flouish because of their knowledge, fair treatment of their customers, and successful lessons program. The second store will lose 50% of their business to Guitar Center.

 

Let me know how I did in a year

 

Dave the Psychic One

[The Lone Chicken]

Since most GCs are in fairly large sized towns (although the opening in Peoria, IL suggests a possible change in that trend), most smaller music stores, at least those who offer good customer service, who employ people who are at least knowledgeable of their product (if they are skilled at servicing and repairing equipment, that's even better), who can offer prices that are not necessarily as low as but are faily close to those of GC, and who run their shops in honesty and integrity, will survive and even thrive. A new GC opened back in March in Toledo, OH, which is 45 miles from where I live in Fostoria, OH, and in fact I was present for the grand opening of that store (which I shared about in another thread). The music stores that probably face the greatest threat from having a GC around is not the smaller music stores in towns maybe 40 or 50 miles away (i.e. Flag City Music in Findlay, OH, with whom I do most of my business), but rather the somewhat larger stores, such as Peeler's Music in Toledo (Peeler's was where I got my '03 Strat from last fall), but if they service what they sell and set their instruments well (as is the case with Peeler's), they'll do OK too. GC is kind of the "Wal Mart" or "Home Depot" of music stores--they're great for finding bargains (I got a Casio CK491 keyboard for $50 at the grand opening at GC-Toledo), but those who want personal service (and who don't to drive 50 miles everytime they need strings or their guitar needs professional attention) should and will still continue to deal with the smaller music stores. Since GC is coming to places like Peoria, IL, it makes me wonder if they might even come someday to Findlay, OH, which like Peoria is a fast-growing midsized town which has seen the recent arrival of other "major" retailers such as Home Depot, Menard's and Best Buy.

[webe123]

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

My prediction;

 

One of the three existing shops will go out of business. Probably because they were financially marginal anyway, and would have gone out of business in the next few years anyway whether Guitar Center moved in or not.

 

The expensive one will come down in price, but not enough to retain all of their customers. They will let the most knowledgable salesman go and he will go to the third place that will continue to flouish because of their knowledge, fair treatment of their customers, and successful lessons program. The second store will lose 50% of their business to Guitar Center.

 

Let me know how I did in a year

 

Dave the Psychic One

Who knows?? Mabye you will be right on the money. I will let you know who stands and who falls in a year.

[webe123]

Originally posted by The Lone Chicken:

, Since GC is coming to places like Peoria, IL, it makes me wonder if they might even come someday to Findlay, OH, which like Peoria is a fast-growing midsized town which has seen the recent arrival of other "major" retailers such as Home Depot, Menard's and Best Buy.

Mabye it will come to your town, but is that a good thing or bad thing?? Time will tell.

[The Lone Chicken]

Originally posted by webe123:

Maybe it will come to your town, but is that a good thing or bad thing?? Time will tell.

A good question, and indeed only time will tell if that ends up being a good or bad thing...although I suspect that if GC was to come to Findlay, it won't be anytime soon. I know that I would continue to deal with Flag City Music even if GC was to come to Findlay, but I also realize that I can only speak for myself on that.

[Dak Lander]

I try to use the local stores for my string and other purchases but don't very often. I find they are as big a bunch of bozos as GC with higher prices.

There was a great music store in town for awhile, Mustang Music. Went out of business because the owner was a hard ass when it came to the metal, punk & like stuff. If you were ragtime, big band, jazz, blues or somewhat country you were ok. Other wise, stay the hell out of the store. Great prices but bad attitude.

The one that moved in close is better but has lots of crap and the prices are outlandish.

Another, in years past, started in a near town and moved here. Was a great store 25 years ago then catered to the piano & organ retired folks. Changed back but with no sense of what's in the real world. Prices higher than a giraffe's ass.

The last place in town had some musicians working it, had so so pricing but were a clique operation. Not in the clique? Lousy service. It was bought out by an outfit that has other stores too and employs idiots. If you want to be ignored, go there. Tough freaking place to get some strings or anything else.

I'll make the drive to GC, thank you. As bad as it can be, it's no worse than the local places when it comes to lousy service and knowledge. At least there I can get the strings I want, and, get them at MY price, not some damned inflated list price.

[Gabriel E.]

I work in the coffee industry where larger chains (like the one I work for) have put a lot of mom n' pops out of business. A lot of people have a romantic notion that small businesses offer great, personalized service and a high quality product. The reality is that a lot of mom n' pops have shitty service, high markups and a poor selection and have only existed for so long because they enjoyed a monopoly in their trade area. As soon as they face any form of stiff competition, they fold.

 

There's an independant music store here in N.O. that sells Ernie Ball guitar strings for $9.00/pack!!! If you ask to try a guitar they make a big deal about it and act like they're doing you a huge favor. Only prices marked are MSRP. When you ask, it turns out the retail price is only 10% lower. If you ask about an item they don't have in stock they just say "We don't have that." Most of their inventory has been on the shelf without rotating for quite some time now. We'll see how long they last.

 

My experience with GC has been that while not very knowledgeable, the sales people are friendly and courteous and will go out of their way to let you try anything. If they don't have something you're looking for, they always offer to special order it. The selection isn't great but it's better than the previously mentioned mom n' pop.

 

There's another mom n' pop (New Orleans Music Exchange) that appears to be doing quite well. The owner is always in premesis and his sales staff is knowledgeable and friendly. He deals primarily in used gear and in brands that GC doesn't carry. His prices are good and regular customers are rewarded with even better deals. He'll special order anything. Independent stores in any industry that carve out a product niche and back it up with superior service and expertise will always survive.

[webe123]

Originally posted by Gabriel E.:

Independent stores in any industry that carve out a product niche and back it up with superior service and expertise will always survive.

THAT is what I have been trying to say in a nutshell. Very insightful. I just can't understand some of these people that think you ought to be GLAD for walking into a music store and them giving you bad service. Then...acting like you should ALSO be grateful that they are ripping you off and they know it because they have no one to compete with them!

 

It almost sounds as if they don't have a choice where they live, so they try to make the best out of it, I don't know what their reasons are for saying that a local store is great NO MATTER WHAT, but that is TOTALLY WRONG. there are good and bad small local shops and not all of them are equal! I have had some very positive experiences at a local store and then at some others I have had the exact opposite.

 

Take for example in the small town where I lived, before there was internet or magazines like musicians friend. There was a small local store that carried most brands, but the guy that owned it was a TOTAL JERK, and was very hard when it came to making deals. Everyone I talked to swore that they were not going back in his store because he was such an idiot to them. He was even harder on his employees whom I got to know extremely well and one salesman in particular. If it wasn't for THAT salesman, I would have to make a drive an hour away from the small town I lived in.

 

Well, things finally camne to a head in that small music store a few yaers later and the head tech that fixed all his instruments, the guitar teacher, which he carried away over 100 students, and that salesman and another salesman all walked out the door one day! The tech guy got his own business and still has it to this day. And the other salesman got their own music store in that same town and when word got around they were gone and opened up their own store, a lot of people including myself went there instead. I was faithful to that store until I moved away.

 

By the way, the local owner that was such a jerk to everyone that had the store with all the lines? He eventually sold the store to one of his employees and retired. I had heard that it was because sales were in such a slump....wonder why?? Mabye that was what needed to happen years ago as I found out later on that the people who walked out tried to buy him out a few years earlier.

 

It is COMPETITION that eventually will drive the bad dealerships out and let the good ones survive.

[Mike Gug]

I go there for the DEALS. The good ones. And there are some good ones. You can talk them down in price. That's nice. But I try to buy as much as I can from "SonFather Guitars", Rocklin, CA. The dude KNOWS his stuff! I LOVE going in there. He'll talk all day about gear. Only open MW and F. My kinda gig!

 

Myles gave me a tube replacement suggestion. I ran the same story by this guy and he came up with the same conclusion. Either Myles and this guy are full of it or they both have the same level of knowledge. If I had gone to GC, forget it...

 

GC coming to your town?, use them for the right reasons. Customize your shopping experience. Support the locals when you can.

[Gabriel E.]

Support the locals when you can.

That's very important. One thing I see a lot of is people going to the (good) local mom n' pop to take advantage of their expertise and compare products and then go buy from an online discounter to save another 5-10%. Basically, the independent does all the legwork for the customer and then gets screwed.

 

I think if you go to a local and they give you great service and their price is fair, you should buy the product from them (and if not, fuck 'em). Think of the extra few bucks as insurance for good future service and as an investment towards good deals in the future.

 

A number of years back, I bought a very expensive Kurzweil keyboard locally. Including tax, it probably cost me 15% more than I could have gotten it for online. I made the right decision because the power supply failed after a week. The local store took it back and gave me another one. They made the warantee issue their problem rather than mine. Didn't have to ship a 75lb. item and only had to wait 3 days for a replacement to come in to the store. Doubt it would have been like that if I bought it out of state.

 

Remember this: Your business is a lot more valuable to a small company than it is to GC/Musician's Friend. A good small businessman understands this and will treat you accordingly.

[webe123]

Originally posted by Gabriel E.:

[QB]

Support the locals when you can.

That's very important. One thing I see a lot of is people going to the (good) local mom n' pop to take advantage of their expertise and compare products and then go buy from an online discounter to save another 5-10%. Basically, the independent does all the legwork for the customer and then gets screwed.

QB]

But again....you have to remember that THIS depends largely on the service I get when I walk into a music store. In other words: basically weather I come back or not is really up to them! So if they are total jerks, then I am gonna treat them that way!

 

BUT.... If they are honest, decent people that can give a good deal, then I don't mind paying a little more as long as they are fair. But even then, you have to remember that these local stores are not only in competition with guitar center, but now the internet stores, musicians friend magazines and even ebay!

 

There are just simply too many choices that musicians have now to put up with a bunch of crap from a local shop that just doesn't give a care. And I ask myself when I see someone with that attitude local or not, if they don't care.....why should I??

[Mike Gug]

I've got one Mom and Pop shop that treats me like a damn CRIMINAL when I go in there. I can't figure it out! I'm you average suburbanite. No tatoos or piercings. They follow my kids around (sweet boys) like they're Winnona Ryder!

 

They are not nice AT ALL! I don't know how they stay in business! And they just doubled their showroom! They hate me for some reason!

 

Long story short, they are the exclusive Samick dealer (one of my fav guitars) but I refuse to buy ANYTHING from them. I still go in play, mainly now just to piss them off. in.

[webe123]

Originally posted by Mike Gug:

I've got one Mom and Pop shop that treats me like a damn CRIMINAL when I go in there. I can't figure it out! I'm you average suburbanite. No tatoos or piercings. They follow my kids around (sweet boys) like they're Winnona Ryder!

 

They are not nice AT ALL! I don't know how they stay in business! And they just doubled their showroom! They hate me for some reason!

 

Long story short, they are the exclusive Samick dealer (one of my fav guitars) but I refuse to buy ANYTHING from them. I still go in play, mainly now just to piss them off. in.

If that happened to me I could not see me ever going in there again. Guitar line I love or not. But that is just me.

[Mike Gug]

I just enjoy showing up, using all their stuff and not buying anything. Not very Christian of me, huh? Ooo, it hurts to see that in print.

 

Well, I guess I won't be doing that anymore. But I DON'T have to buy from them. I just won't go in with malice in my heart, if I ever go in at all.

[GuitarPlayerFL]

Originally posted by Gabriel E.:

My experience with GC has been that while not very knowledgeable, the sales people are friendly and courteous and will go out of their way to let you try anything.

Probably because they don't make anything! Ever notice the employee turnover at GC?

 

Unfortunately, in SoCal, there aren't many Mom & Pop stores left.

 

If I have to buy something from these type stores, I usually go to Sam Ash where the IQ is usually higher. (Depends on which store though.)

[webe123]

"Probably because they don't make anything! Ever notice the employee turnover at GC?

 

Unfortunately, in SoCal, there aren't many Mom & Pop stores left."

 

Maybe that could be a good thing, as it seems that the real jerks could have been run out of business by guitar center and the ones that are left, are the ones who decided to change their business model to compete with them.

 

Of course, you would know weather or not that is true where you live, but I have seen it happen in other places. Not by guitar center moving to town, but when these local dealers are acting like such idiots, usually they cut their own throat!

[fantasticsound]

There are all kinds of MI retailers and all kinds of Guitar Center's/Sam Ash's/etc. Despite attempts to the contrary, GC is far from the monolithic presence that Walmart is. Service and employee knowledge vary a LOT between stores. The important thing to remember with chain stores is just because one salesperson ain't cuttin' it with you doesn't mean another won't be your finest resource for new gear.

 

I'm of the camp that believes most of the good Mom & Pop stores will survive GC, etc. because they provide what most chain stores cannot. Personalized service from knowledgable employees, most of whom will work for the store far longer than 6 months. I'm all for spending more money somewhere that an employee truly helps me out. Think of it as a tip, because that's exactly what it is. Most MI retail salespeople are on commission. The extra 10% you might pay for their services helps ensure they're there the next time you need them.

 

And customers come in all sorts as well. During my short tenure at Gibson I began receiving calls from a prospective Epi customer. He called to complain about the wait time on a Joe Pass Emperor he'd ordered. It had been several months and he tried to insist on a solid date for its' arrival. (Impossible, but I wanted to investigate further.) I suggested a dealer and he said he refused to buy from them. Didn't like their attitude. I offered to mediate.

 

I phoned the local authorized Gibson retailer and inquired about it. They indicated he was a pest who came in, played the Joe Pass they had in stock repeatedly for months, and attempted to get them to lower the price. He said another store down the block would sell it for less. They were unwilling to lower the already low price and he walked, but continued to come in and play there instrument.

 

Turns out he'd gone down the street and the owner of the second store agreed to order one for him. Except he (the owner) was not an authorized Gibson dealer!

 

Armed with that information I told the customer that if he bought a Gibson, et. al. product from someone other than an authorized dealer he would have no warranty other than that offered by the gray market retailer. (read: no warranty!)

 

This guy wasn't playing fair and, in the end, he either was screwed by waiting for a guitar that would never arrive or by a store that would have told him to take a flying leap the moment his Epi had a warranty issue.

 

This is an example of something I saw many times as an MI salesman. Once, at GC in Chicago, I had a customer work me over for a near cost price, then hand me an expired license with his check! When I informed him the check guarantee service would not accept or approve a check on an expired license, he had the nerve to come down on me saying, "I thought we were friends!" I said, "If we were friends, you would have paid a fair price for the extensive information I gave you on this and other gear you've asked about and you wouldn't have expected me to put my job on the line for you to get your check approved!"

 

For every sort of salesperson or store there are as many types of customers. Be a good customer and frequent stores that treat you with respect, inform you what product is available and useful, and offer a fair price for those services.

[Billster]

Originally posted by guit-it:

posted 05-21-2004 09:29 pm

Be afraid be very afraid! The cons always outweigh the pros. From the Mars Music debacle and the several other major outlets that copied their doomsday format, what you get is row after row of cheap shit. The beauty of the smaller store is they appreciate you as a customer and the relationships and contacts will always in the end benefit you more than saving a few bucks on a junkcaster.

Nothing could compare to the Mars Music Debacle. The one that popped up in this area had the most un-informed staff I have seen at any store of any kind.

 

originally posted by fantasticsound

posted 05-24-2004 01:54 pm

 

Despite attempts to the contrary, GC is far from the monolithic presence that Walmart is. Service and employee knowledge vary a LOT between stores.

Got that right. The first one to pop up here in Boston hijacked a lot of the employees from the older regional store group (the late lamented E.U. Wurlitzer). The suburban Boston location I now frequent has a decent enough staff, but I'm a lunatic as a consumer in terms of research. I pretty much know what I want, and just shop price. I do this to car dealers too

 

I think the local stores are a better spot for band instruments, and for first purchases by non-player parents for their kids. Where I grew up, the local music store was run by a guy that had an old-timey GB band, and he could really explain what was good about the wares he was selling and why it made sense to not always buy the cheapest thing he sold or to avoid something that was "name" but overpriced for students and beginners. I think that a place like Guitar Center would have put my father into a catatonic overload state.