Guitar, not a particularly "fast" instrument

[philbo_Tangent]

Originally posted by Pricey:

Whoa, looks like I skipped over half the thread . . .

 

Mr Nice Jazz Guitar Guy, death metal and jazz have something in common - they were both produced by the fusion of blues and classical, and have nothing to do with rock music. 90% of death metal bands are complete shit, but there's a handful of bands with amazing compositional skills and amazing chops, if you can get past the harshness of the music. Some of the most innovative musicians end up in metal . . . maybe it's because our society doesn't value innovation, and the most intelligent people end up turning against society. My own metal band is exploring microtonality and trying to break out of the 12-tone straitjacket, which I don't see a whole lot of musicians doing.

 

Of course speed is not an end in itself, it's just a useful techinique. I can't stand musical wanking.

 

Classical and jazz seem to be dead as mainstream art forms. I know there's good new stuff out there, but it's been relegated to the underground, so that's another thing jazz and metal have in common.

Incidentally, Steve Vai has done some amazing work in microtonality - - he has (or had?) a guitar with frets every quarter step (i.e., 24 notes/octave).

 

There is quite a bit of great stuff on the web about microtonal music, too (but you probably knew that..).

[Jazz Guitar]

Originally posted by henryrobinett:

Phil - Please. Mr."Nice" has turned into the "one-who-must-be-ignored". I don't read any of his posts and therefore can't respond to them. Best to pretend he doesn't exist.

Let me return the favor Henry. Toodles.

 

PS "I can't use you"

[Jazz Guitar]

Originally posted by philbo_Tangent:

Originally posted by Pricey:

Whoa, looks like I skipped over half the thread . . .

 

Mr Nice Jazz Guitar Guy, death metal and jazz have something in common - they were both produced by the fusion of blues and classical, and have nothing to do with rock music. 90% of death metal bands are complete shit, but there's a handful of bands with amazing compositional skills and amazing chops, if you can get past the harshness of the music. Some of the most innovative musicians end up in metal . . . maybe it's because our society doesn't value innovation, and the most intelligent people end up turning against society. My own metal band is exploring microtonality and trying to break out of the 12-tone straitjacket, which I don't see a whole lot of musicians doing.

 

Of course speed is not an end in itself, it's just a useful techinique. I can't stand musical wanking.

 

Classical and jazz seem to be dead as mainstream art forms. I know there's good new stuff out there, but it's been relegated to the underground, so that's another thing jazz and metal have in common.

Incidentally, Steve Vai has done some amazing work in microtonality - - he has (or had?) a guitar with frets every quarter step (i.e., 24 notes/octave).

 

There is quite a bit of great stuff on the web about microtonal music, too (but you probably knew that..).

Perhaps Phil Mr Vai should spend more time learning to be a musician than fooling around? The guy makes flat out UGLY music, mostly for juveniles. He can't swing and he really should abandon any attempts at jazz until he's got the concepts of swing and lag down. He's well into his 40s and hasn't done that yet.

 

I would suggest Mr Vai take lessons from a great jazz guitarist. If he wants to screw around with microtonality, he should pursue the sitar. If he wants to make money, he should just "keep on rockin' me baby..........". To me that guy is a waste case, much like Petrucci and Satriani.

[revorhythm]

i dont know im about to give up on jazz after what i heard earlier. but im not goin to give in to my SoCal attitude and totally put it down (my exceptions as you all know are rap hip hop and pop). ive heard some groovin jazz. ive heard some groovin Vai to. but the girl who gives me a ride to skool put in a jazz CD today. it sucked, the singer sung the guitar solo's. im sorry last time i checked a guitar solo was a GUITAR solo. plus the songs were stupid, and the band sounded like they were tuning up all at once not playing. but the thing is your comparing a prog guitarist to jazz, both have their own talents. but its like comparing apples and oranges. jazz cant play prog, and prog cant play jazz, fine. i can play rhythm, but suck at a lot of lead. (consult revolead). i play punk and country, but cant play jazz or prog, but im sure the kids at my skool who play those other forms would have a hell of a time doin what i do.

 

i dont think i got anywhere with this.

[Jazz Guitar]

Originally posted by revorhythm:

i dont know im about to give up on jazz after what i heard earlier. but im not goin to give in to my SoCal attitude and totally put it down (my exceptions as you all know are rap hip hop and pop). ive heard some groovin jazz. ive heard some groovin Vai to. but the girl who gives me a ride to skool put in a jazz CD today. it sucked, the singer sung the guitar solo's. im sorry last time i checked a guitar solo was a GUITAR solo. plus the songs were stupid, and the band sounded like they were tuning up all at once not playing. but the thing is your comparing a prog guitarist to jazz, both have their own talents. but its like comparing apples and oranges. jazz cant play prog, and prog cant play jazz, fine. i can play rhythm, but suck at a lot of lead. (consult revolead). i play punk and country, but cant play jazz or prog, but im sure the kids at my skool who play those other forms would have a hell of a time doin what i do.

 

i dont think i got anywhere with this.

I would reply that jazz guitar opens one mind up to soloing. Improvisation a hallmark of jazz as a matter of fact. By incorporating aspects of jazz, you can make rock and "fusion" sound much more "soulful", like lagging the beat and imparting swing.

 

Certainly many "rock" players like Santana, Steve Howe, Dickey Betts, Jimmy Herring etc etc would not sound like they do if not for their jazz roots.

[musicalhair]

Hey Revorrhythm, don't judge "jazz" guitar based one on asshole who probably can't even play-- honestly, would anyone that can actually play brag about how well he did in his high school music theory class-- in fact don't pay any attention to that weasel fucker. I've studied with one well known jazz great, one local jazz great (that studied with a number of fully acknowledged jazz greats), many well known classical greats, and I've been lucky to get to know some other very great musicians. They all are about the most generous people with their knowledge and time, most were surprisingly humble and spiritual.

 

Jazz is a crazy beast, even Charlie Parker didn't call himself a jazz musician-- the word jazz weighs so much on peoples minds and many greats didn't even use the word. Listen to Grant Green Live At the Lighthouse, or Paul Desmond's Bossa Antigua, or some of Pat Martino's early music (or later, if that is you're bag), or Wes, or Miles' Jack Johnson album. There is great jazz out there and when you hear the stuff that is right for you, then your hooked and you'll "get" A Love Supreme and then it is too late

 

Just cuz some jerk puts a word in his internet handle, you shouldn't judge the word by his behaviour.

 

Listening to and studying jazz can teach you a lot about many aspects of music that can apply directly to what you're playing now and more importantly what you'll play in the future-- such is true about most "types" of music but the study of jazz (whatever sub-style or aspect of that style you are getting into) can be a lifelong chore.

 

Every guy I've met that studied it and were good musicians were helpful decent and humble-- even the drug addicts as far as they can be--, I'm very very suspect of those that are not. Besides, for jazz guys to get gigs they must be able to play and get along with people, thus a "jazz musician" that don't get a long or causes trouble habitually ends up with pick up gigs with singer-songerwriters not playing jazz.

 

In summary: don't believe the hype, Jazz is cool.

[Jazz Guitar]

Originally posted by musicalhair:

Hey Revorrhythm, don't judge "jazz" guitar based one on asshole who probably can't even playcool.

Geez, musicalPUBIChair, you sure are a little shit, aren't you? I'll just skip over everything your worthless hide has to say in the future.

 

May you end up the victum of bikini wax in the near future.........

[musicalhair]

Please do, in no time then you'll not read anyting here, and maybe even stop posting. Am I the second on you're ignore list, or are there more?

[revorhythm]

im not judgin jazz, he has a good point, yeah jazz was influential, but i really dont like it. id much rather listen to country or blues. and i know someone is gonna say, but jazz influenced them, well yeah but they took influence and made somethin better. i mean really i cant explain why it doesnt appeal to me, it just doesnt.

[henryrobinett]

I was a little older than you when I was called a musical bigot. I was into jazz. I thought most other music sucked, or at least was inferior. It took something like that to finally shake me. Any time anyone decides there is a style or form of music that one doesn't like, that's the time to really check it out or check oneself out. There is not any form of music that I don't like or can't like. There are musicians I don't like. There is specifi music I don't like and there are songs I don't like. But too generalize and damn a whole genre, style, etc. is almost like bigotry. Now I'm not calling you that. But that's what I was called and it fit, for me, at the time. I'm proud to say I'm no longer a muscal bigot.

 

Because of this I CAN play most styles of music. I've done country gigs. I've been in a punk band. I've been in many a funk band, R&R, big band. I played some prog too. There's nothing better than to be able to listen to and appreciate it all. Nowadays when I hear someone say they can't stand a style it generally means to me they can't play it. I've heard many a jazz musician years ago natter about R&R. Did a studio date on a "R&R" session with this guy only to find he had no idea. No clue. Couldn't play it if his life depended on it.

 

You can't condemn a whole style/genre based on listening to one CD in a car one day.

[revorhythm]

im not baseing it all on that one CD, like i said, ive heard some cool jazz its just not something that really catches my attention, like classical. even prog rock i dont like to much but some of it is really cool. yeah i cant play jazz, its not my intention to either. i like simple ballads, and stuff i can relate to, i cant relate to jazz