kitaristi0 Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Well, the subject pretty much explains itself. I was just wondering what kind of thoughts and experiences you have of recording guitars with SM57s. This is probably the wrong forum to be asking this, but I wanted a guitarist point of view. I've heard a lot about these mics and many claim they're the best of the best but all the info I have is a bit old. Have any better mics come out on the market or is the SM57 still the best? Another question: My band has a beat-up four-track cassette recorder that's been loyal and has worked for many a year. Now, however, we think it's time to expand. Is 8- or 16-track the next step, or should start looking around at some kind of computer set-up? Any advice would be nice. A duck-pond, a museum, and a red hunting hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miroslav Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Sennheiser e609 Silver Not specifically "better" than a 57...but a great alternative...and, it looks cool and can be hung by it's cord right up aginst the cabinet. I have a couple of 'em...and also a couple 57's...both are great for guitars and other things too. miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 There probably are better mic's out there than the 57, but for the price you'll be hard set to find anything better. I just used a 57 on a recording project recently and it sounded great! There are a ton of good and inexpensive routes to recording digital these days including stand-alone recorders, PC-based DAW's, etc. It all depends on how much you're willing to spend and invest in learning the tools. The computer route is by far the most flexible and upgradable path, but usually takes more time to learn the tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Zeger Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Could you provide more details on how you record? Do you want something like a "portastudio" mixer+multitrack recorder? If so, there are many hard disk based all-in-one devices from Roland & Boss, Yamaha, Tascam, and Korg. These are a nice, compact, portable solutions that can yield professional recording results. The Roland VS series are very well regarded and are on the higher end of the price spectum. With any of these, you'll need a CD burner to archive your work off the hard drive (some may have an internal CD-RW drive available). You could go the computer route with a laptop (or tower computer if non-mobile), recording software and a USB or Firewire audio interface. This is more expensive solution but you gain a world of versatility. If you use MIDI sequencing, a computer based system is the way to go. Plus, you get other uses from a computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryrobinett Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Sm57 is a great all round dynamic mic. Great on guitar cabs. There are plenty of alternatives. Depends on what you're looking for. I prefer ribbons, like the Royer. On the expensive side, but I've heard plenty of success stories from people using the Oktava ribbon. Much less expensive. Sorry I don't know what the model number is. Re recording: it also depends on what you want to do. If you want to record as a band vs doing it a track or two at a time. This can be crucial. With the computer, going "native" you'll have latency issues to overcome, unless you research that bad boy upfront. All in one units have a lot of flexibility out the box. No latency. The Roland series. I don't know the models here either because I don't use them. There are limitations though almost which ever way you go, except for perhaps Pro Tools, but you're paying up the wazoo for that kind of flexibility. For me at this point, not worth it. I personally opted for Digital Performer for reasons that aren't necessarily germane to you. I'd already been a user of Performer for many, many years. I was comfortable with the computer enviornment and wanted some editing features and midi capability. Of course I hardly use midi at all any more! Can't stand it. But I hadn't quite realized that I might not return to it at the time. Softsynths are a real attractive area as is Ableton Live - fit for further exploration. I just picked up my copy and there it sits. I'm unwilling, at the moment, for yet another learning curve until I've figureed a few of the old learning curves out first. But sound quality does not vary too much between formats. It's ease of use, or adjusting to work habits or just what seems cool to you. I don't think there's a better than/worse than. All the best, Henry Robinett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennyf Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 57s should come in a white box stencilled in black letters reading "MICROPHONE." They are pretty good for mic'ing guitar cabinets. They are pretty good for a lot of things, so you could do worse than to have a couple. However, by accident I discovered that the Audio Technica ATR40 (also sold by Radio Shack ) is actually a BETTER mic to my ear for mic'ing a cab for rock guitar. Also works pretty good for tenor sax. Our singer had one as her "backup" mic, and one night we had a guest sitting in. I gave the guest my 57, and put the ATR40 on my guitar rig. Sounded great, with flatter EQ on the board than the 57. I picked up another to add to the mic locker for $15 (like new) at a 2nd-hand store! band link: bluepearlband.com music, lessons, gig schedules at dennyf.com STURGEON'S LAW --98% of everything is bullshit. My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Jackhammer of Love and Mercy. Get yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitaristi0 Posted January 16, 2004 Author Share Posted January 16, 2004 For our last two albums we recorded the drums through a mixer (the extra mics and the mixer we borrowed from school and friends) and put that onto one track. We then filled up the remaining tracks with guitars, bass and vocals (one track for each). Already then we were very short for space and now we have added an organist/pianist to our line up. Regarding my last message, I'll have to rule out 8-track. With vocals, backing vocals, rhythm and lead guitar, bass, drums and organ, that's already seven tracks and we wouldn't want to start layering things on top of each other. So if it's a Portastudio type thing than it's a 16-track. A computer would be much nicer (we are pretty good with computers (on our first album we programmed the drums with a computer program and then transferred it to the 4-track)) but the expenses may well be out of our league. With the computer, the programs etc. the price could get really high. Does the SM57 work well with all the instruments I mentioned above? A duck-pond, a museum, and a red hunting hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBBPaul Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I'll chime in on this. As has been said, The SM57 is the absolute workhorse of mics. I used to play with a vocalist who would use nothing else. Personally, I use them for guitar amps, B3/Leslie and even drums. On another note, Radio Shack is a fascinating place. They sell some of the worst crap on the planet but if you look, they also have some of the best values as well. I bought a bunch of PZM's a few years ago that were made by Crown for like $30. each. Most of their mics are (or at least were - I haven't bought any in a while) made by either AT or Shure. I still have a few hat I was able buy for under $50. that would have cost 2-3 times that under their Mfr brand name. In fact, Our bass player still uses one for his primary vocal mic. Our new and improved website Today's sample tune: Lonesome One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 We recently had a chance to try out several of the big name mics that are currently touted as being good for guitar. We ran these mics through a bunch of amps, and used a bunch of classic guitars, and a couple of different players, playing several different styles of music. Just as a reference, I threw a 57 in the batch. Most everyone who listened to the playback liked the 57 best. I didn't include the Beyer M-69 in the test, but I use the M-69 the way most people use 57s... it's my 'utility' mic. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Last time I was in the studio, got better results from an old SM-7 than a 57. But, the 57 didn't sound bad... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitaristi0 Posted January 16, 2004 Author Share Posted January 16, 2004 So I guess a Shure SM57 would be a great place to start and then possibly expand to other brands and types of microphones. What are the main differences between Ribbon, Condenser and Dynamic mics? And I mean the instruments they're at their best with and overall experiences and feeling kind of stuff, not specs. A duck-pond, a museum, and a red hunting hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KARL FISHER Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I have used the SM57 both live, and mostly with my Tascam 414 Portastudio. It produces an exceptionally true sound for the money! Karl Skynyrd fan forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Björn Fröberg Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 The SM57 is the mostly used mic for electric guitars (cabinets), bass (cabinets), snare and toms in a live situation. Used alot in budget recording studios as well. That says a bit about the mic. It's a good allround mic, my opinion as a sound engineer is that you can't have too many of those.. When I asked my teacher in audio engineering what pair of affordable condenser-mics would be a good buy for getting started, he gave me the advice of buying a pair of SM57's. On the question about multitrack recording, I went for the computer-based solution. If you want decent gear, that's upgradeable and relatively cheap, (you don't get decent gear cheap) that's the way to go, especially if someone in the band knows a bit about computers. I've got a Hoontech DSP2000 audiocard, 422 from Thomann ( www.thomann.de ) with 8 analog ins/outs, two mic-pre's, midi, S/PDIF, AES/EBU, and Logic software. Very affordable, there are cheaper sets though, and works fine. Just my opinion. - Bob Freebird A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael saulnier Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 One technique not mentioned in this thread so far is using two mics to record your guitar. One common strategy for this is to use a dynamic mic like the SM-57, close mic'd as normal. Then use a large diaphram condenser about 4 to 6 feet away. The close mic will capture the edge and punch of the sound, while the "room" mic will capture more of the "fill" sound... Judiciously mixed, these two sources can give you a "bigger" sound than you otherwise would be able to get with one mic alone. Watch out for "phase" problems, (which will reveal themselves by making the guitar "thinner" sounding as certain waves cancel each other out)... One thing I've noticed is if I put the "room" mic in a position I find by moving my head around in front of the amp I can find a "good" sound more easily. Often it's not "directly" in front of the speaker... most often it's a foot or two above the speaker height. This may require a bit more experimentation of moving things around before finding "the sound" but may be worth it! I would say that "mic placement" can be as much of a factor with recording guitars as WHICH mic you use... it's amazing how much difference a few inches can make! About three or four months ago, GuitarPlayer mag had a cool article about guitar recording techniques with about 8 different producers talking about their techniques and tools. SM-57's were on most people's list of tools, but so were a variety of other mics... You might try the GP online archives and see if you can find that article... it could give you a few more "pro" answers to your question! guitplayer I'm still "guitplayer"! Check out my music if you like... http://www.michaelsaulnier.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak Lander Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 I'm going to throw out a suggestion to try the Carvin CM 67 as an alternative to the Shure SM 57. The Carvin may be closer to the beta 57 but it's great for guitar cab mic'ing too. Our Joint "When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it." The Duke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitaristi0 Posted January 17, 2004 Author Share Posted January 17, 2004 I couldn't find the article online, I guess I'll have to walk over to my local library to see if I can find over there. Thanks for the tip. A duck-pond, a museum, and a red hunting hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Björn Fröberg Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Yeah, good point guitplayer. Experiment with mic placement(s). Some engineers use this technique too: You move around the mic in front of the amp, (noone playing the guitar) with headphones on, listening to the mic. You move the mic around until the "hum" from the amp sounds like it sounds in the rest of the room, where the guitarsound sounds like you want it. When the hum sounds the same, put the mic in that position. - Bob Freebird A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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