squier vs. fender?

[batterypowered]

OK, here are the facts:

 

1. I want a tele. (A Nashville tele, preferably, but that's not a necessity.)

2. I'm poor.

3. I'll probably be adding a middle pickup and 5-way switching to it at some point. (assuming I don't find a killer deal on a Nashville before then)

 

So, with those things considered, what's the REAL difference between buying a Fender for 400+ dollars vs. a squier, which I can swing for like 170? The ones I've played have been pretty well the same, as far as I could tell, but it's been awhile since I compared, and I didn't always have an eye for workmanship, or even care, like I do now.

 

I'm thinking like this: Nashville Tele is about 450. I can get a Squier for 170, plus 25 for a pickguard, 10 bucks for a switch, and 50-70 for a pickup. That's under $300. I can afford to change out ALL the pickups to what I want for less than it would cost from Fender.

 

So, any advice?

[John O. Lennon]

I think the primary difference these days is the electronics...& to a lesser degree the materials.

These days it's very hard to find a guitar that is poorly made in terms of fret-placement or the other qualities that might make a guitar unplayable but there's a definite difference between the pick-ups & attention to cosmetic details between the "beginners" models & higher/mid-priced guitars.

[batterypowered]

So basically, if I were planning to redo the electronics, and didn't care all that much about little cosmetic details, I think Squier is the way to go.

[John O. Lennon]

Well, that's my opinion but remember, every individual guitar is different---one may have a better feel to you (exact body weight, etc.) or have some imperfection, so I always suggest playing the instrument before you decide rather than buying blind, mail order, etc.

Even if you have the option of return/trade, it's a bit of a hassle & may incur extra costs.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

In the short term your logic holds. But in the long term it doesn't. Why? because eventually you are going to buy that Tele. Buy it now, and save the $300 you'd spend on the Squire, since you know that eventually you are buying the Tele anyway.

 

There is no shame in buying quality. There is usually little long-term savings in not buying quality. Buy the guitar that you really want once, or buy incrementally until you get the guitar that you really want. Your choice, your money.

 

Bill

[nonfcomm]

There are a few differences between different price ranges in guitars other than the cosmetics and electronics. The biggest problem I have found in cheaper guitars is intonation problems. The intonation on intro-level guitars is almost always slightly less accurate. I have even noticed the difference between my custom shop and American made guitars. Also, the less expensive necks don't always have as consistent a feel. This is more of a taste issue, but most people find the more hand crafting involved the nicer the necks feel. Finally, I, personally, have found that less expensive guitars are not as dependable. When moved around, the joints and other hardware become less solid. There are other differences, but I can't think of them now.

 

Daniel Smith

[EmptinesOf Youth]

k, my brother got a squier a while ago with one of those packs and my friend also got a standard strat. The only real problems they had was the nut around the guitar input on the guitar came loose and so that whole thing kinda fell into the guitar, and on my friends a washer around the tuning pegs fell off for no apparent reason. So what i would do if you absolutely want a squier (i myself started with an Ibanez GSA60 - $210 now, no problems at all) is get one of the higher end models and replace most of the hardware...grover tuners, maybe new pickups, ect... just what i think would be te smartest but so many more people here knows way more than i do, so i dont know...

[batterypowered]

I don't absolutely want a Squier. I have this vision in my head of a Tele with three pickups and 5-way switching, maple neck, blah blah... I put it together from scratch at Warmoth, and it was ultra expensive, so I'm figuring I can do it for cheaper starting with a Squier as a base, especially considering that most of the issues with Squier vs. Fender that I care about are moot points. (ie, electronics, and some hardware) I'll proababy rewire the whole thing myself, anyway.

 

Call me crazy.

[Blue Strat]

For what it's worth, I'd go for the $300 Mexican made Telecaster as a base for modifications. The stock pickups are as good as the American made model (in my opinion) and the materials and workmanship is much better than what you get with the Chinese or Indonesian made Squier Affinity Tele's. The nut is made of a better material that doesn't shrink and bind on the strings, and the body is solid poplar, not plywood.

 

If you do go with the Squier, make sure you have no issues with anything when you leave the store, the neck and frets in particular.

[musicalhair]

I agree with Bill Park, big time. If you want the Tele, or even a particular tele, then get that one. You'll just be jonesing for it while playing the squire otherwise. There is enough variations within individual guitars that are the same model, same year etc that you're better off focusing on the guitar you want and finding the one of those you want.

 

There is another reason to get the tele over the squire (especially since you want the tele), resale value. The tele will hold it's value better than the squire, and that simply is for all the reasons people are saying in this thread already: you expect the tele to have better fret filing and dressing then the squire, the electronics should be better in the tele, I'd bet the tele's and the strats get made with better pieces of wood than the Squires, and these assumptions allow for the tele to hold value better down the road.

 

Look closely at the fingerboard and really feel it and look in detail at the prospective Squire and the prospective Tele-- I'm sure you'd see the difference. I've not even looked at a squire in maybe 5 or more years and when I did I couldn't get it out of my hand's quick enough. From fret dressing to just the way the fingerboard wood looked (sickly actually, like on the most el-cheapo childrens guitars) I couldn't believe what crap it was. Maybe today the differences aren't so great (which line changed it's standard then???) but the difference was really noticable.

[Dave da Dude]

I am very seriously considering buying (in my two year plan) a Nashville Tele and have researched it in pretty good depth.

 

My opinion? Buy the Fender Deluxe Nashville Tele.

 

Why? ALL the reasons above PLUS:

 

And .. bluestrat, sorry to contratict you, but .. the MIM (Fender Deluxe Nashville) body is Alder according to Fender's site. The Squire Tele body is Agathis (I saw someplace that this is a "poor man's" version of mahogany, but I've never confirmed this and have been told by others that its a man made material, but I'm pretty sure its a real wood, just cheaper). I was told by a Fender dealer that the Nashville Tele is no longer made as an USA made, ONLY made in Mexico and have confirmed this by looking on Fender's site. If you want to buy a USA made Nashville, it would have to be used (difficult to find, on ebay anyway). I don't know when Fender stopped making USA made (American Deluxe?) Nashvill Teles.

 

Additional reasons for buying the "real" thing:

The body material is one of those things that you can never change, or compensate (completely) for.

The neck materials are the same (for MIM vs. Squire), possibly better material selection; BUT, the neck finish on the Squire is poly; on the MIM, satin poly; another feature difficult to change (although very fine sanding might do it).

The fretboard on the Squire is available as rosewood ONLY, the Fender Deluxe as EITHER rosewood OR maple. IMHO rosewood is "better" anyway, but if you want maple ...

Lastly, while I haven't a/b'd the two, I have a/b'd Strat Squier vs. Highway 1; and the overall sound, feel and action is very definitely better on the Highway 1, but you need to try them both yourself.

 

Finally, IF (and ONLY if) price is an over-riding consideration and IF you just can NOT wait (I really do understand this, btw); try out the Samick Forumla. All the caveats about the Squire apply to the Samick too ( http://www.samickguitar.com/ ). All that being said, I tried a Formula and that's what turned me on to getting a Nashville. As a matter of fact, I haven't even tried (other than maybe a casual "pick up") the Fender Nashville yet, although of course I will before I buy. The Formula FA-2 is the same config as the Nashville (3 pups, 5-way switch), Body is Alder (although w/ a maple top) and sounds great; color is limited though (TR, Red [True Red?] and TBL ]True Blue?] ONLY). I think the one I saw was priced at $300-$350 USD, and no mods needed. The FA-1 is an Agathis body, don't do it.

 

I'm sorry for the lengthy reply, but like I said, I've researched this in some depth.

 

Dave the Obsessed

[coyote]

I disagree with this, on a number of levels.

 

a) bp said he's poor. Far better to get an instrument you can afford and play it than to either put yourself in debt for something you cannot afford or forego the instrument til you can afford it - the six months you invest playing the cheaper instrument are a great investment.

 

b) I've owned a Fender Stratocaster for many years. Yet my main axe is now a Squier Standard Stratocaster, purchased new a year ago for $200. Why? (Glad you asked!) It sounds more like a Strat than my Fender, it feels better, it plays better, it has a 22nd fret (not used much, but a nice option to have)... in short, it is a better guitar.

 

IMO only fools spend triple the $$$ for a nametag unless they have a fair amount of spare cash laying around. (Even then, it's questionable.) Smart poor folks look for the best guitar they can get for the money. BP, that Squier Tele may be exactly the thing for you - don't reject it merely because it lacks a Fender decal. Go to the store and play it with your ears & mind wide open. If it doesn't cut it, you still retain the option of foregoing the rent in favor of a Fender

 

Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:

In the short term your logic holds. But in the long term it doesn't. Why? because eventually you are going to buy that Tele. Buy it now, and save the $300 you'd spend on the Squire, since you know that eventually you are buying the Tele anyway.

There is no shame in buying quality. There is usually little long-term savings in not buying quality. Buy the guitar that you really want once, or buy incrementally until you get the guitar that you really want. Your choice, your money.

Bill

[John O. Lennon]

There was something I neglected to mention before & I'll repost (rather than edit it into my prior post) both to make sure it's seen & to comment on other remarks.

 

Besides weight (the only specific aspect of "feel" I mentioned earlier---& Squire bodies are thinner, I think, than official Fenders) there's the neck itself.

Many players develop a preference for a particular neck shape or even fretboard radius & are uncomfortable using others.

You can have options for those when choosing higher priced guitars that you won't get in the Squire selection.

This is true for both new & used guitars---& remember that you might find a great used instrument at a relatively low price.

 

In regard to some things said about low priced Squires vs. Fenders, I must say that I've not kept up with the details of new guitars having been happy with the ones I've owned for quite a while so some of my experience may be different than others but most guitars today have a much higher standard of construction than in previous decades & they also are much more consistent within model types.

Except at the very high end, there's not really much that's hand-crafted (neck shaping, etc.); the components are basically all machine made...but with modern methods that's just a signal of consistency.

Fret location, for instance, is marked on Squires with the same method & machinery as on "true" Fenders.

That sort of thing applies to all aspects of manufacture, I think.

 

That said, there is still (as I suggested earlier) the chance of a lemon & that's why I think one should always play the guitars you choose between rather than take one mail order, etc. This applies across the board---the most expensive model could still let a flawed instrument slip through.

 

As far as the cost of a new instrument being offset by the quality/re-sale value/etc., I personally only think of any instrument as a tool (which puts me at odds with some "guitar lovers"---I'm only concerned with the music I play, not instrument appearance, etc.) & I weigh matters in terms of cost effectiveness; true one might still "jones' after a particular model but at a later date you might better be able to afford it, aftre earning some money with that less-expensive model!

I leave that all up to the buyer's intent, though...& as BPowered has stated that's to significantly remodel the instrument, which would nullify any re-sale/collectors price, & is something that might be done more inexpensively than by buying a high-priced custom guitar.

[ihategarybettman]

I have two words for you: BUY USED. I have a mint condition Nashville Tele that I picked up used at the local Guitar Center for $300. If you have a little patience and you're going to end up spending three bills anyway, why not look around a little and get what you really wanted in the first place?

[Guitar Geezer]

One more thing that no-one has mentioned...IMPORTANT NOTE

The Squire Affinity (as opposed to the Standard Squire) Does NOT have Strings thru Body.. a big part of that Sound IMHO.

 

That being said...I'm still buying my Essex Butterscotch Tele soon as the Car Repair Bill is paid.

WHY? just cause for $109 it's gonna be fun to upgrade and mess with... and that extra savings is going towards the Ibanez Artcore

 

LynnG

[Blue Strat]

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

bluestrat, sorry to contratict you, but .. the MIM (Fender Deluxe Nashville) body is Alder according to Fender's site.

I've heard from several sources that Fender's Mexican guitars are made of poplar. According to Fender's Mr. Gearhead site, Poplar is very similar to Alder, and is used as a substitute by many manufacturers. My Tele was made in '92 or '93, so maybe they switched? I'm not sure what wood my Tele is made of, but whatever it is, it sure sounds sweet and it's solid wood. ;)From the Warmoth website:

Poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera): This is another standard body wood having been used by many companies over the years. Due to the grey/green color, this wood is used only when solid color finishes are to be applied. It's weight generally runs about one half pound more than Alder. Tonally, it is similar to Alder as well. Poplar is a closed grain wood that accepts finish well.

[Gabriel E.]

have two words for you: BUY USED. I have a mint condition Nashville Tele that I picked up used at the local Guitar Center for $300. If you have a little patience and you're going to end up spending three bills anyway, why not look around a little and get what you really wanted in the first place?

I'll second that!

 

Unless damaged, guitars tend to play and sound better the older they get. So instead of spending the dough for a new cheaper quality import, why not buy a US-made Tele that's been around a while?

 

I bought my tele when I was 16 and it was as old as I was. 16 years later it's still my main guitar.

[batterypowered]

Originally posted by guitar geezer:

One more thing that no-one has mentioned...IMPORTANT NOTE

The Squire Affinity (as opposed to the Standard Squire) Does NOT have Strings thru Body.. a big part of that Sound IMHO.

 

That being said...I'm still buying my Essex Butterscotch Tele soon as the Car Repair Bill is paid.

WHY? just cause for $109 it's gonna be fun to upgrade and mess with... and that extra savings is going towards the Ibanez Artcore

 

LynnG

As far as I can tell, it IS strings-thru. That's important to me, too. Click Here for a huge zoom pic. Thanks for the links to the SX, btw. I might go with that, instead, since, like you, I plan on upgrading and messing with it, anyway. I think we're guitarists of similar tastes. I love the Artcores, too.

 

I should add that I don't necessarily want a Nashville Tele, seeing as I've never played one, but (call me shallow) I think they look really damn cool, and the idea of a Tele - which I've always preferred to the Strat-style body - with more tonal variety really appeals to me. I also think I'd be more attached to a guitar that I customised myself, as opposed to finding a Nashville and realising that the pickups it comes with don't suit me.

 

I think Mr. Lennon has the same type of thinking as me, too. I don't care about resale value, and I don't care much about cosmetic issues (aside from 'DAMNTHATLOOKSCOOL' ), so I think the best way to go is to find a used tele, or buy a cheaper new copy, and do what I REALLY want to it. I think it'd just feel right to me.

 

Thanks for everyone's input, too. This has been really informative, as far as the differences and the experiences of people with Squier and Fender. It's something I've wondered, but never got real-world answers to. Thanks! "D

[Darklava]

http://207.44.240.59/john/jt882.jpg

Geeeez I'm so confused!

[batterypowered]

You might want to ask Mr. Kot-teehr.

[doc taz]

I'd go for the better made Mexican Fenders. If 21 frets isn't enough for you (it would be an issue for me), you could swap the necks with something from Warmoth, for instance, but doing that might be a bit much, and besides, the cost of doing that with a top notch Mex Fender might enable you to buy a Highway One Tele instead.

[Darklava]

http://www.rondomusic.bigstep.com/ElectricGuitars/al2800ash1.jpgWOW! I wonder how these

babies play and sound.299.00 Two 57's

bingo

[Dave da Dude]

coyote,

a) bp said he's poor. Far better to get an instrument you can afford and play it than to either put yourself in debt for something you cannot afford or forego the instrument til you can afford it - the six months you invest playing the cheaper instrument are a great investment.

I agree completely.

 

Note that I recommended the Samick Formula already in a Nashville config with no mods being required, so he can start playing with the axe he wants right away, not in six months when he finally gets it modified.

 

I also, as much if not more than anyone, do not want to pay for the name alone (see my many questions, opinions, etc. about a LP clone), UNLESS you can tell the difference. I could readily tell the difference between the Squier Strat that I tried and the Highway 1 Strat that's almost mine now. The Squier was okay , no real problems, BUT the Highway 1 was awesome

 

IMHO, if I was going to buy my Tele Nashville, and it had to be right now; I'd buy the Samick Forumula with no hesitation It played great

 

Dave

[Mike Gug]

Dave, agreed.

 

I'm a proponent of getting as much as you can out of cheap guit.

 

I'm also a Samick fan. My Samick Royale is nice. It's the least played guit in the arseanl, but when I start, it's difficult to stop. My style doesn't lean me toward a semi-hollow. Anyway, check those out and get it set up. I don't think you'll be sorry.

 

On the other hand, my bro-in-law just got a Squire Standard Tele. Plays very nicely!

 

I'd look at the samick or look for a Squire Pro Tone Tele on eBay. Do you know the story of the Pro Tones? Made over seas. Low dollar. had to stop making them, as they were putting a dent into the sales of the Mexican Fenders.

 

I've got a PT Strat. It's my Number One. Heavy, but what a guit!

[Dave da Dude]

Used is a GREAT way to go

 

I just haven't seen many (any) Nashville Teles for sale

 

Dave

[skipclone 1]

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

Used is a GREAT way to go

 

I just haven't seen many (any) Nashville Teles for sale

 

Dave

Dave

I hate to throw in a non sequitor, but I could really use some input on this Orville vs. Strat thing. frankly I shouldn`t be looking at either of them but if I don`t do something, from what I`ve seen before they`re both gonna be gone pretty quick.

[skipclone 1]

welp, too late-I have to get outta here for the day. Hope I do the right thing, catch ya later.

[baronedo]

IMO, if you're looking to economize, I would go with a Made In Mexico (MIM) Tele instead of a Squier. The MIM manufacturing facility is carefully scrutinized by Fender's American operation in California and the MIM models have many of the same features and materials as the American models.

 

The Squier's are made in Korea and IMO generally not to the same quality standard. I've also heard that their materials are not has good, where some of the bodies are made from painted plywood, not a solid piece of alder, ash, or poplar.

 

Which ever way you go, make sure you try the instrument first. In some cases, the quality can vary from guitar to guitar within the same model. For this reason, I never buy a guitar through the mail.

[ihategarybettman]

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

"Used is a GREAT way to go; I just haven't seen many (any) Nashville Teles for sale."

 

Unfortunately, that is true, and I know that I was extremely lucky. What I wanted was a brown tobacco sunburst with a maple neck and that was exactly what I found. Not only that, but it appeared to never have been played - the plastic wrap was still on the pickguard! However, I have seen another Nashville Tele used since I bought mine (this one was red rather than sunburst) at the same Guitar Center. It would seem that patience and regular checking of local music stores (which I'm sure we all do anyway) is key to getting what you want.

[Dave da Dude]

Lancer,

IMO, if you're looking to economize, I would go with a Made In Mexico (MIM) Tele instead of a Squier. The MIM manufacturing facility is carefully scrutinized by Fender's American operation in California and the MIM models have many of the same features and materials as the American models.

YES

 

MIM is the ONLY way to get a Nashville right now, and (lower) California is very close (geographically) to Mexico.

.

.

 

skipclone1,

Dave,

I hate to throw in a non sequitor, but I could really use some input on this Orville vs. Strat thing. frankly I shouldn`t be looking at either of them but if I don`t do something, from what I`ve seen before they`re both gonna be gone pretty quick.

Is this for another Dave? BTW, aren't Orivlles a GIBSON Les Paul clone, while FENDER Strats are a completely different instrument?