Something I should have learned earlier about strat trem.

[elferoony]

I should have learned a lot earlier how to use it and set it up at all. So I have had the system set up in my guitar by someone, but have no idea how to actually get the tremolo system to work the 'proper' way.

 

Are there some photos that you savants can link me to on the internet that can help me? Because now I really want to use my strat as more than a hardtail, and I have no idea how.

 

(It's a vintage tremolo.)

 

Thanks!

[michael saulnier]

To make a "strat" into more of a "hardtail"... there are a couple of common tactics.

 

First, some people will simply crank down on the springs so that the bridge is firmly pulled backward... This is real easy to do, but some people aren't happy with the sound of this... and you usually have to re-intonate the guitar, and maybe raise the action a bit.

 

The other "common" thing is to "block" the tremelo system. This is pretty much what the name implies. A block, typically wooden, is used to "lock" the tremelo in a position... typically the "mid" way of all back or all forward.

 

Obviously the size of the block has to be pretty accurate, and once in place, the springs again can be tightened if needed to firmly hold it in place. This is more of a "pro" solution, since it usually keeps the intonation the same, and doesn't usually negatively impact the tone.

 

There are other ways to do this... these are just the easiest and most common. You could probably do either one yourself... a tech would only need to spend a short time, (mostly in the post-block setup and intonation)...

 

guitplayer

[Blue Strat]

Hey Elferoony,

 

Open up the tremolo spring cavity cover on the back of your strat. There are two screws on the claw at one ends of your springs. The other end of your springs are attached to the bottom of the bridge. Loosen the springs until the tremolo floats a little, or until you get the tension you want.

 

The idea is to set up your tremolo the way you want. There's not really a right or wrong way to do it. Experiment with different numbers of springs, spring tensions, and string sets until you find a setup you like.

 

My Strat is setup with three springs, with enough tension to keep the bridge flat when I bend strings. It's a de-tune only setup. I'm not able to pull up on the bar. I play .009 - .042 strings, so this isn't really a problem. I have to really push on the tremolo arm to make the strings go slack. Some people prefer to let the bridge "float" above the body of the guitar from between 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch. This allows you to increase pitch when you pull up on the tremolo bar, as well as de-tune when you push down.

 

Hope this helps!

[Caevan O’Shite]

Originally posted by elferoony:

"...now I really want to use my strat as more than a hardtail, and I have no idea how."

Forgive my butting in, guitplayer, but I think that elferoony wants to make use of his trem, rather than having a virtual hardtail.

 

elferoony- what's wrong? Is your trem not working right? Tuning stability problems? What exactly do you need to know, or is that part of it, knowing what to ask about?

 

Or, are you wondering how to use it, how to play it?

 

What can you give us to go on here?

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon3.gif I can recommend a really good book- Dan Erlewine's Guitar Player Repair Guide, in association with Guitar Player magazine.

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif http://www.stewmac.com/catalog/images_1sm/3720_1sm.jpg

(Click on the book-cover for a link to Stewart-MacDonald)

 

If you need to know almost anything about guitar set-up or repair, it's probably covered here, and covered well. Highly, highly recommended!!

[elferoony]

well, i was asking how to use it as a not hardtail. but actually, i love that information too.

 

i guess my initial request was a confused query, but its just a cry from a lot of information on the tremolo system, how to technically use and maintain it.

 

thanks! great information.

[elferoony]

okay! I figured out what my 'problem' was. I have a pretty low action, and I can't pull the pitch of notes up, I can only detune. This may be okay, but how would I change this to allow myself to pull 'up?'

[Caevan O’Shite]

Well, once it's set-up "correcly"- and, as bluestrat points out, there's more than one way to skin a cat (oh, sorry, Tigger!)- you just need to occasionally check your action, neck-relief, and intonation. Add a bit of lubricant to the nut-slots, string-trees on the headstock face, and bridge-saddles, and maybe even a tad on the "knife-edge" fulcrum-points (those little screws), the spring-claw hooks, and the little spring-ends that anchor in the inertia-block. Apply just enough to do the job, not too much.

 

I like the Archer Teflon gel that Radio Shack sells in little pen-like dispenser tubes; it stays put well, and does an excellent job. A very small amount will do, too. I sometimes mix up some with powdered graphite, sold at hardware stores for locks. (Don't get excess of this stuff where you don't want a grey stain in woodgrain, finish-cracks, etc.)

 

Stretch your strings when re-stringing and tuning up; always tune up, if a string is sharp de-tune it below the target-pitch and tune back up. (This keeps slack from hanging up, or the part of the string that is wound around the tuner from slipping around.) When using the whammy, many players will always quickly pull the bar back up, muting the strings, to be sure that the strings are pulled back through the nut-slots and no slack is "stored" or hung-up there to make the guitar go out of tune.

 

If you tune, re-tune, or de-tune one string, the others will be affected as the tension pulling on the trem changes, especially if it's set up "floating" style. If you change from standard-tuning/standard-pitch to, say, all six strings tuned down a half-step- "Eb" tuning- the set-up of the tremolo will have to be adjusted to compensate, unless it's only temporary and you plan on going right back to the previous tuning.

 

Same goes for changing string gauges, too.

 

I'm running out of ideas here, sorry if I left any glaring ommisions!!

 

Scope out that book, you'll be able to do pro-quality set-ups with that, and charge a fee for it!

[Blue Strat]

Originally posted by elferoony:

okay! I figured out what my 'problem' was. I have a pretty low action, and I can't pull the pitch of notes up, I can only detune. This may be okay, but how would I change this to allow myself to pull 'up?'

Loosen the screws on the spring claw until the back of the bridge raises off of the face of the guitar body about 1/16" to 1/8". Re-tune the guitar and try it out!

[Caevan O’Shite]

Originally posted by elferoony:

"okay! I figured out what my 'problem' was. I have a pretty low action, and I can't pull the pitch of notes up, I can only detune. This may be okay, but how would I change this to allow myself to pull 'up?' "

Oh, yer killin' me here, elferoony! And I had just thought that I had wrapped things up nicely with my last post, and I see this after I post it! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon12.gif

 

In short, you would need to set it up "floating"-style. The bridge-plate would need to be raised up just enough to allow you the amount of up-trem raise-in-pitch that you want.

 

Feelin' like a "D.I.Y."-er?

 

Tilt the tremolo forward for a "floating" action by loosening the screws that secure the spring-claw in the cavity in back of the guitar, untill there's enough "uptrem" range to raise the pitch of the strings as high as you want. You'll have to check your action and intonation, going back and forth to get it right.

 

If you've got a six-screw, vintage Fender-style tremolo, you may need to raise or lower the the tremolo via the "knife-edge" fulcrum screws. Raise the middle four screws up or even remove them (don't lose them). Use the outer two to set-up the guitar, and prepare for a lot of trial-and-error and going back-and-forth tuning, setting intonation, checking the position of the trem's bottom plate relative to the body for the amount of up-trem, re-tuning, re-adjusting the intonation... you will be, in effect, fine-tuning a see-saw for a while.

 

Once you get it zeroed-in, take some measurements and write them down for future reference. Replace the inner four screws, taking care to only tighten them enough to just touch the plate the same as those outer two. Or, leave them raised up above it, or even leave them off entirely.

 

Or, tell someone else what you want out of the tremolo, someone who's got the tools and experience to do it, and pay them for saving you the hassle!

[Caevan O’Shite]

Double-post weirdness...

[Blue Strat]

Once you get it zeroed-in, take some measurements and write them down for future reference

You could get one of those name tags they make you wear at parties and stick it to the inside of your tremolo cover plate and write all the info down there. It won't get lost that way, and you'll probably have the tremolo cavity open anyway.

[elferoony]

you guys are great! the best christmas gift of all, heartfelt practical experience.

[baronedo]

As an experienced Strat player, here's what I finally settled on which gives the best of both worlds - i.e. a useable trem which provides the stability of a fixed position bridge. The solution is an after market product called the Tremsetter from hipshotproducts.com.

 

The Tremsetter replaces the center trem spring and functions as an adjustable stabilizer. The installation and adjustment instructions are easy to follow and allow you to set up your trem bridge properly. When adjusted, the strings return to a zero equlibrim position which maintains tuning and intonation both after trem use and during string bends. The Tremsetter also enhances sustain and tone and allows bending strings to pitch with less effort, as unlike the traditional trem, bending effort is not wasted in just sagging the bridge.

 

David, the Tremsetter inventor, recognized the fallacy of the traditional trem design (i.e. that of string tension pulling against trem spring tension in an attempt to reach a stable equilibrium). As a pedal steel player, David incorporated stabilizer concepts of the pedal steel guitar when designing the Tremsetter. This product costs ~$50 (possibly cheaper via Stewart MacDonald's catalog) and really works.

 

Check out hipshotproducts.com website for all of their neat guitar products.

[baronedo]

I just checked out the Stewart-Macdonald guitar parts website and they sell the Tremsetter at a real discount of $34.90.

 

Go to stewmac.com and search for the Tremsetter and you'll find it.

[coyote]

Long as you're gonna continue to spam for Tremsetter by knocking things that work, I'm gonna continue pointing out the fallacy you are espousing

 

The Tremsetter is probably a great product as long as it doesn't change the action of the trem (actually vibrato) system. But you are absolutely dead wrong in saying equilibrium is unattainable in a standard Strat vibrato system. Worse than that, you try to sell your damn product by calling those of us who have set up our guitars properly liars.... sorry pal, but YOU are the one spreading a fallacy here. Sell your product honestly, by claiming that for most users it will improve the stability of their vibrato system. But DO NOT talk about "the fallacy of traditional trem design", because plenty of people with absolutely nothing to sell have figured out how to have a stable system without aftermarket parts.

 

Originally posted by Lancer:

David, the Tremsetter inventor, recognized the fallacy of the traditional trem design (i.e. that of string tension pulling against trem spring tension in an attempt to reach a stable equilibrium).

[baronedo]

Coyote,

I am not selling any products whatsoever. Years ago I had trem problems with a used Strat Plus I purchased. It had a funny looking device installed in the trem which turned out to be a Tremsetter, which came stock with this model Strat. However, it was not adjusted properly. I asked my dealer for the phone number of the Tremsetter Company as I wanted to get instructions on how to use it properly. When I phoned Hipshot, the owner David was very cordial and took the time to explain the background of his product and faxed me the instructions. When I properly adjusted it, the results were great.

 

I have since purchased them for all my Strats simply because they work. I am just another guitar player sharing my opinions and experiences - period - and have no vested interest whatsoever in how many of these Tremsetters are purchased. The Tremsetter works and my experience has been less than satisfactory with standard trem setups.

 

P.S. You should think twice before falsely accusing someone of something. I was only trying to help a fellow forum member with his inquiry.

[John O. Lennon]

Regarding the resetting of vibrato bar to achieve raised pitches:

By raising the bridge as described above (to allow the bar to pull back), you've also raised the action on the neck by the distance the bridge has been raised.

Two ways to re-adjust this: lower the action using the allen screws by each saddle or, if absolutely necessary, re-adjust the neck.

 

Of course, the more involved these procedures get, the more you'll benefit by having them done by an experienced tech/repairman.

 

Since all this adds to the possibility of accidentally knocking the tuning off (if you haven't mastered a "gentle" playing technique), you may want to re-evaluate whether it's all worth the extra effort...

[coyote]

Lancer,

Here's the way I see it.

 

You've often posted here about the Tremsetter, and the nature of your posts (shilling for the product, slagging methods & devices that might tell folks they don't need the product, and including further sales material as well as ways to purchase the product) are the hallmarks of a sales pitch. Whether Hipshot compensates you for that pitch or not is almost irrelevant.

 

But I'm not accusing you of being a salesman. I wouldn't do that, as sales can often be an honorable profession - therefore, it's like accusing someone of being a carpenter (ie. no accusation at all). What I take issue with is your general message that (paraphrase) "it's impossible to keep a standard Strat vibrato in tune without this specific product", and your insinuation in many posts that those who say they stay in tune without it are participating in "the fallacy of standard trem design". (Do an historical search on your posts relative to Tremsetter and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.)

 

There are many ways to tell the world you think Tremsetter is a great product! And frankly, I don't care whether you do or not; I've been excited about some products in my time and been glad to share details about those products, so I understand your desire here. But you need to stop telling folks that the Strat vibrato design is so badly flawed that it's impossible to stay in tune - in doing that, you are spreading misinformation. Many folks (myself, the guitarist in my band, plenty of major-name players, etc) have no trouble whatsoever staying in tune without Tremsetter.

 

But you are correct about one thing: many folks cannot stay in tune without some assistance. And Tremsetter does look capable of handling that issue in many instances. As long as you address that without making false claims about standard trem design (and, by extension, successful users thereof) you will not hear from me.