Seven-strings - I'm clueless!

[Dan South]

How is the seventh string tuned? Low? High? Somewhere in the middle?

 

Does it complicate rhythm/chord playing?

 

A high seventh would be cool for soloing, but it might screw up chord fingerings.

[skipclone 1]

I`d prefer a high seventh too.

I think the low seventh is a B. Is that what you mean?

I`ve been thinking about whether I need one of those, actually. I keep playing along to stuff on the radio and suddenly the guitar is dropping under the floor. So much for that cover song...

[Nollykin]

A standard seven string guitar has one more low string - a thicker one physically above the low E, which is tuned to B. It gives you a lower range and such many metal bands do / used to use them - they were all the rage for bands like korn, and other metal bands - however these days its somehow seen as a bad thing - it was really cool once upon a time - and its just not cool anymore, for some reason.

 

I personally love 7strings. I think they can give a really nice chunky sound... and they can be really nifty for the blues

 

but theyre like.. 'not coooool mannn'

[Dave da Dude]

When the 7-string is tuned with the 7th being (looow) B, how is the chording affected? I've only got four frethand fingers and they're often busy doing other things.

 

I've been interested in these too, but mainly considered them a passing fad, sorta like the ELECTRIC guitar.

 

Seriously, would I have to "re-learn" all the chords that I know. I mean that would be maybe ... one ... two ... WOW over THREE chords! Sorry for that. I don't seem to be able to stay serious this morning, but I really am curious about the chord shapes.

 

Dave

[Mark Zeger]

Jim Soloway is the Pope of 7 String Guitar around here. He'll probably chime in on the topic.

 

There are 2 schools of 7 string guitars. As Nollykin mentioned, the latest are the solidbody rock-oriented guitars used by Korn and the like.

 

The original 7 strings were hollowbody jazz boxes. The most famous model was the Gretsch played by George Van Eps (a MONSTER guitar player and music theorist). My teacher used to play a Gretsch Van Eps for a solo guitar restaurant gig. The low 7th string is typically tuned to either A or B and it's huge for chord soloing and adding "latin bass". Bucky and John Pizzarelli are currently the most visable 7 string jazz players. Howard Alden is another well known 7 string player.

 

Taking the concept to the next step is Charlie Hunter's Novax 8 string, with 3 "bass" string, 5 "guitar" strings, and fanned frets. Hunter just kills me. Here is a link for his guitar: http://www.novaxguitars.com/Pages/frame_GuitarSales.html

[Jim Soloway]

"Pope of 7 String"? I kind of like that. Everyone can kiss my ring before they tune down.

 

7 strings are not really standardized in any real way.

 

The first player of note to use one was George Van Eps and he added a low string tuned to an A. That's the most common usage in the jazz world. Anything you can play on a standard A string, you can just swing down 2 strings and play in the same position, so it's really handy for playing chords. On the other hand, you end up with fifth as the interval between the two lowest strings, so it can be very disorienting for playing single string runs that begin on the lowest string. In addition to the Piazzarellis and Howard Alden, cool players using this tuning also include Jimmy Bruno, Ron Eschette, Gerry Boudoin, Steve Masakowski (on a baritone), and a bunch of lesser known players including Ron Paul, Tom Lawrence, and me.

 

Lenny Breau was the next player of note after George Van Eps to experiment with a 7 string. He went the other direction adding a high A above the high E. He used a shorter scale guitar for electric and on nylon sterong guitars, he used fishing line. It can be a string breaking night mare and I can't think of anyone else who gave that route a serious shot.

 

In the rock world, the first 7 string player that I'm aware of was Steve Vai. It's an added low string tuned to a B. That maintains the interval as a fourth making single note lines and power chords more intuitive, but it moves the four semi-tone interval between the G and the B by one string position making large spread chords involving the added string less intuitive.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Originally posted by Jim Soloway:

"Pope of 7 String"? I kind of like that. Everyone can kiss my ring before they tune down.

Ha- HAA!!

 

Hey, does anybody know, wasn't there also an Epiphone "George Van Eps" seven-string model, or at least an Epi- seven-string? I could swear that I once saw a photo of one, and it looked real sweet...

 

In any case, on a seven-string, I'd almost have to use one of those Hipshot "D"-tuners, so that I could quickly go between "A" and "B" on the seventh-string. I'd dig both!

 

And a seven-string tuned to some variation on open-G would be too cool. Say, D-G-D-G-B-D-G, with an "added" high-string (effectively open-D with a low seventh-string, transposed up), or B-D-G-D-G-B-D, with an "added" low one. 'Twould be exceedingly cool riffing and licks, and for slide, too!

[Jim Soloway]

Originally posted by Dances With Werewolves:

Originally posted by Jim Soloway:

"Pope of 7 String"? I kind of like that. Everyone can kiss my ring before they tune down.

Ha- HAA!!

 

Hey, does anybody know, wasn't there also an Epiphone "George Van Eps" seven-string model, or at least an Epi- seven-string? I could swear that I once saw a photo of one, and it looked real sweet...

George's original 7 string was an Epiphone that he had originally played for several years as a 6 string. He had it converted to a 7 string at the Epiphone factory. That remained him main guitar from the late 30's until Gretsch brought out the Van Eps model in the mid 60's. It was a full bodied Emporor with no cutaway. It was an incredible guitar. I wish he had kept playing it. I think his tone was much better with it that it was with the Gretsch.

[RichardAshkenazi]

Some info on early use of 7-string guitars (about halfway down the page, the paragraph that starts with "The inspiration for the seventh string...")

[Dave da Dude]

Jim Soloway,

"Pope of 7 String"? I kind of like that. Everyone can kiss my ring before they tune down.

Jim, thank you so much for not suggesting another part of your anatomy.

 

And thanks for the good, and complete, info, Dave.

[doc taz]

Originally posted by Jim Soloway:

The first player of note to use one was George Van Eps and he added a low string tuned to an A. That's the most common usage in the jazz world. Anything you can play on a standard A string, you can just swing down 2 strings and play in the same position, so it's really handy for playing chords.

Not only that, for the rockers, the 7th string tuned this way is great for those tunes usually played on a baritone guitar, or doing one fingered power chords (the ones labeled in the music sheets as A5, Bb5,...). Those KoRn-y guys do it.

[D_dup3]

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

When the 7-string is tuned with the 7th being (looow) B, how is the chording affected? I've only got four frethand fingers and they're often busy doing other things.

 

I've been interested in these too, but mainly considered them a passing fad, sorta like the ELECTRIC guitar.

 

Seriously, would I have to "re-learn" all the chords that I know. I mean that would be maybe ... one ... two ... WOW over THREE chords! Sorry for that. I don't seem to be able to stay serious this morning, but I really am curious about the chord shapes.

 

Dave

I don't play a 7 string (& all deference to Jim S., I'm not even in the church ) but I don't think that one's chordal approach need be different.

 

My opinion is that once one gets past the early stages of guitar, you learn that most of the time full six-string chord forms are not needed & sometimes are actually less effective than more selective forms.

[Jim Soloway]

Originally posted by d:

I don't play a 7 string (& all deference to Jim S., I'm not even in the church ) but I don't think that one's chordal approach need be different.

 

My opinion is that once one gets past the early stages of guitar, you learn that most of the time full six-string chord forms are not needed & sometimes are actually less effective than more selective forms.

That may be true, but I get pleasure out of playing big chords. That's one of the reasons I play a 7 string.

[Dave da Dude]

Why have a 7-string guitar if you don't use the 7th string?

[D_dup3]

Originally posted by Jim Soloway:

Originally posted by d:

I don't play a 7 string (& all deference to Jim S., I'm not even in the church ) but I don't think that one's chordal approach need be different.

 

My opinion is that once one gets past the early stages of guitar, you learn that most of the time full six-string chord forms are not needed & sometimes are actually less effective than more selective forms.

That may be true, but I get pleasure out of playing big chords. That's one of the reasons I play a 7 string.

...but I bet you do so more as a soloist than in contexts of large ensembles when others are also playing big chords or of loud music where the amplified overtones can make a blur of your efforts...?

I also think that a lot of players (bassists, too) play deep-pitched chords that are too closely spaced for clarity...but some like that effect.

[Jim Soloway]

Originally posted by d:

Originally posted by Jim Soloway:

Originally posted by d:

I don't play a 7 string (& all deference to Jim S., I'm not even in the church ) but I don't think that one's chordal approach need be different.

 

My opinion is that once one gets past the early stages of guitar, you learn that most of the time full six-string chord forms are not needed & sometimes are actually less effective than more selective forms.

That may be true, but I get pleasure out of playing big chords. That's one of the reasons I play a 7 string.

...but I bet you do so more as a soloist than in contexts of large ensembles when others are also playing big chords or of loud music where the amplified overtones can make a blur of your efforts...?

I also think that a lot of players (bassists, too) play deep-pitched chords that are too closely spaced for clarity...but some like that effect.

I've been working as a solo for the last 9 years and before that with a trio (guitar/bass/drums). I haven't worked with another harmony instrument for about 11 years. I'm about to record my second CD and I'll be using an acoustic bass and drums for that, but their primary directrive is to first and foremost, stay out of my way.

[D_dup3]

...& that's a "whole 'nother thang" than what I pervieved the "rhythm guitarist" context of Dan's question, eh?

[Jim Soloway]

Originally posted by d:

...& that's a "whole 'nother thang" than what I pervieved the "rhythm guitarist" context of Dan's question, eh?

Ah, the vagueries of the internet as communicaiton. He wrote "rhythm/chord". You read "rhythm" & I read "chord". The concept of rhythm or lead guitar hasn't been part of my playing vocabulary for a very long time.

[Nollykin]

I'm about to record my second CD and I'll be using an acoustic bass and drums for that, but their primary directrive is to first and foremost, stay out of my way.

 

BAHAHAHAHAHAA!!! THATS FANTASTIC! I love that one. Comedy gold.