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Best way to get EVH �Brown� Sound


Dylan

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Ive recently been digging out my old Van Halen records and I just cant get over how good his sound was. Besides the effects he used, can anyone recommend an amp/pedal setups that can get close to this sound? Im using an SG at the moment. Unfortunately, I dont have unlimited funds so I am open to beer budget recommendations as well.
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Originally posted by Evil D Mon:

I've recently been digging out my old Van Halen records and I just can't get over how good his sound was. Besides the effects he used, can anyone recommend an amp/pedal setups that can get close to this sound? I'm using an SG at the moment. Unfortunately, I don't have unlimited funds so I am open to beer budget recommendations as well.

What year may I ask?If it's

1978 goodluck!

The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye.
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EVH Brown Sound = Marshall Plexi with a "variac" voltage control...

 

This is the "real deal" solution... based on what EVH used. Of course, EVH's HANDS and head play a HUGE role in this...

 

Lower cost alternatives?

 

Amp modelers with "plexi" models.

Small tube amps with variac or similar device.

Small Marshall amps.

 

guitplayer

I'm still "guitplayer"!

Check out my music if you like...

 

http://www.michaelsaulnier.com

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I have read a brief description in my Pod manual which talks about how Eddie ran a 100 Watt Marshall Plexi head at an unusual current rating, causing 'unique' tonal characteristics. Some of the guys on the forum will no doubt expand on this explaination, sorry I couldn't make that elusive brown sound any more possible for you!
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the other key besides an old Plexi head (he went through quite a few heads before he found "the one") is to have a plate reverb with about 20 ms of pre delay only in the right side, left side is dry guitar.
overheard street personality on Venice Beach "Man, that Bullshit is Bulllshhittt...."
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Any good Marshall will get you close enough, even the new AVT series. It's mostly in the guitar and technique.

 

You've got the SG, which is in the right tonal ballpark. Now you just need the Marshall or a model/copy there of. And of course, practice makes close to perfect. :thu:

BlueStrat

a.k.a. "El Guapo" ;)

 

...Better fuzz through science...

 

http://geocities.com/teleman28056/index.html

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dougsthang'- That's one concise and informative answer! I'll have to ferret that bit of knowledge away!

 

CowbellAllen- That's too funny!

 

I have to agree with guitplayer that a lot of it is in Ed's hands, or more specifically, his "touch". Practicing that will aid you as much as any gear you might buy!

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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there is a lot of info that ed has shared. what astounds me is he did some things that you would guess would ruin tone as opposed to help it. he likes low action, light strings tuned half step down(the early years). the guitar that made that heavenly sound was basically a piece of shit he put together. one thing you will notice if you listen is he didn't use as much gain as everyone who tries to get his sound does. i believe this gives him a bit more punch at high volume of course. at first he used PAF type humbuckers. alot of his holy grail of tone was a combo of his hands , gear and setup and of course the studio. don't forget that the studio has a big play in the sound. i have always been perplexed at his tone because it is sustaining yet punchy. rubbery and also chimey. he certainly has a set of hands on him. don't use as much gain and you will get closer. i don't know how much help i have been. :D
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Originally posted by Dances With Werewolves:

dougsthang'- That's one concise and informative answer! I'll have to ferret that bit of knoledge away!

 

CowbellAllen- That's too funny!

 

I have to agree with guitplayer that a lot of it is in Ed's hands, or more specifically, his "touch". Practicing that will aid you as much as any gear you might buy!

 

I have to give props to Dweezil Zappa on that information. He showed me that at his studio one day. It's scarey because he can play Eddie better than Eddie can. I guess having Eddie over as a guest things tend to rub off on you. Dweezil really can get inside how, man you stand there and listen to the tone coming back through the monitors and it's as "Eddie" as it get's right down to the plate on the right side only.

overheard street personality on Venice Beach "Man, that Bullshit is Bulllshhittt...."
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It seems like I read that, for the early albums, he had a pretty complex setup in the studio (and I think he even did it live for a while too). As people have stated, he would attenuate the AC power to the amp using a variac (set to maybe ~75-90VAC?) which caused the power amp to have less headroom and distort earlier. As I understand it, he blew transformers regularly because of the practice. But beyond this, he also routed the guitar signal in an inventive way. From the guitar he'd go straight into the amp. Then, he came out of the amp's speaker output into a dummy load of some kind instead of the usual speaker cabinet. This would allow him to push the amp very hard without having to worry about bursting everyone's eardrums. Of course, this was a killer on the amp's output transformers. The line-level output of this dummy load would then feed his effects chain (the famous Ross Compressor, MXR Flanger & Phase 90 and other stuff too I'm sure). Then, at some point he managed to create a stereo signal from his effects, which got amplified by a regular solid-state stereo power amp and was played back through a pair of speaker cabs. Whew. If I got all that right, it's sure a lot to go through to get a guitar sound. That C63 patch is sounding better all the time! :)
None more black.
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My cheapo method:

 

*bridge humbucker that isn't too high output. Dime all controls.

 

*ZOOM GFX-5 on:

-MS CRU, gain on about 20-25, tone at 5 or 6, level 7

-EQ everything on 10, with presence at about 5 or 6, level 7

-add some room delay

-use STK mode for cab sim if going direct to PA

-either make patches with this setup containing phaser, delay, etc, or do it the classic way and add pedals in the front end (like a MXR Phase 90). I just add a wah and my TS7 overdrive, and make extra patches as needed, with the GFX-5's expression pedal controlling the amount of the effect I want.

 

Now if I had the proper 4x12 slant cab or two, and a TubeWorks MosValve power amp, this would be a great, tubeless version of his sound. I could get myself a Peavey XXL half stack, and do the same thing on channel two.

 

Just my version of things. What's yours? :)

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does anyone remember how HORRIBLE Eddies guitar sounded at the end of the movie "Twister". His reverb sounded worse than any 12 years kid who's picked up his first guitar and thinks lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of unending reverb sounds good!
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Originally posted by aj2003:

does anyone remember how HORRIBLE Eddies guitar sounded at the end of the movie "Twister". His reverb sounded worse than any 12 years kid who's picked up his first guitar and thinks lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of unending reverb sounds good!

I'd probably blame that on the record's producer... :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by rog666:

It seems like I read that, for the early albums, he had a pretty complex setup in the studio (and I think he even did it live for a while too). As people have stated, he would attenuate the AC power to the amp using a variac (set to maybe ~75-90VAC?) which caused the power amp to have less headroom and distort earlier. As I understand it, he blew transformers regularly because of the practice. But beyond this, he also routed the guitar signal in an inventive way. From the guitar he'd go straight into the amp. Then, he came out of the amp's speaker output into a dummy load of some kind instead of the usual speaker cabinet. This would allow him to push the amp very hard without having to worry about bursting everyone's eardrums. Of course, this was a killer on the amp's output transformers. The line-level output of this dummy load would then feed his effects chain (the famous Ross Compressor, MXR Flanger & Phase 90 and other stuff too I'm sure). Then, at some point he managed to create a stereo signal from his effects, which got amplified by a regular solid-state stereo power amp and was played back through a pair of speaker cabs. Whew. If I got all that right, it's sure a lot to go through to get a guitar sound. That C63 patch is sounding better all the time! :)

Now you've got me thinking! Could I play into my amp (combo) from there into my hotplate, from the hotplate line-out to my pedals, and from there back to the amps speakers? Will I blow my amp? Can I use a combo for this or should it be a dedicated cab?

Why do I want to try it? Just because. I don't really want the Eddie sound, I just want to try it out for myself. See if it'll do anything for Teaheads sound. Thanks to anyone considerate of this query, by the way, I have only one amp, so please be carefull with it!

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Originally posted by aj2003:

does anyone remember how HORRIBLE Eddies guitar sounded at the end of the movie "Twister". His reverb sounded worse than any 12 years kid who's picked up his first guitar and thinks lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of unending reverb sounds good!

:mad: Hey did your face look like the little

red guy to your left when you posted?What did eddie ever do too you.Just layoff man! :mad::mad:

The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye.
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Originally posted by Teahead:

Now you've got me thinking! Could I play into my amp (combo) from there into my hotplate, from the hotplate line-out to my pedals, and from there back to the amps speakers? Will I blow my amp? Can I use a combo for this or should it be a dedicated cab?

Why do I want to try it? Just because. I don't really want the Eddie sound, I just want to try it out for myself. See if it'll do anything for Teaheads sound. Thanks to anyone considerate of this query, by the way, I have only one amp, so please be carefull with it!

The only thing missing from the equation is an external power amp. The output of the pedals won't be able to drive the speakers so another amp stage is required. If you wanted to try it out, you could maybe somehow patch the output of the pedals into your home stereo or a boom-box? I don't see why performing this experiment would be any more risky than just using the Hotplate by itself. Maybe Myles or someone can chime in with more details about the risks involved???
None more black.
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Originally posted by DARKLAVA:

Originally posted by aj2003:

does anyone remember how HORRIBLE Eddies guitar sounded at the end of the movie "Twister". His reverb sounded worse than any 12 years kid who's picked up his first guitar and thinks lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of unending reverb sounds good!

:mad: Hey did your face look like the little

red guy to your left when you posted?What did eddie ever do too you.Just layoff man! :mad::mad:

Actually, I liked Eddie's tone on that track. Very raw, over the edge sound. :thu: Kinda like the "power drill next to the pickups" thing he used to do. :)

BlueStrat

a.k.a. "El Guapo" ;)

 

...Better fuzz through science...

 

http://geocities.com/teleman28056/index.html

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Originally posted by bluestrat:

Originally posted by DARKLAVA:

Originally posted by aj2003:

does anyone remember how HORRIBLE Eddies guitar sounded at the end of the movie "Twister". His reverb sounded worse than any 12 years kid who's picked up his first guitar and thinks lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of unending reverb sounds good!

:mad: Hey did your face look like the little

red guy to your left when you posted?What did eddie ever do too you.Just layoff man! :mad::mad:

Actually, I liked Eddie's tone on that track. Very raw, over the edge sound. :thu: Kinda like the "power drill next to the pickups" thing he used to do. :)
:thu:BLUUUUUUUUUUUUUUE!YOUR MY BOY...GOBLUE!

Shut up george!

The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye.
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Eddie's coveted "brown sound" basically sounds like shit by itself. There's not a lot of sustain and the low end is really wooly and flatulent. However it fills up a lot of space and sounds great in context.

 

Eddie uses very light strings (.09-.40) tuned down a half or whole step. This makes them really loose and is terrible for intonation and sustain but has always been a big part of his sound.

"You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer
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my two cents...

 

Ed hates reverb on his guitar

 

Ed has a preset on the eventide h3000 "ed's womanizer" (I think mr. bradshaw came up with the name), a little shift up with delay on one side, a little shift down with delay on the other side. the h3000 into a H&H stereo amp feeding two "wet" cabs on both sides of his "dry" cab.

 

I'm looking forward to whatever new tuneage Ed is working on....it's been too long.

 

gerry

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Don't ask me how or why, but this worked for me when it was all I had to use:

 

Guitar of your choice into a Boss DS-1, Phaser and/or Flanger and echo unit, then into a Peavy Deuce. The EQ setting on the deuce were heavy on the bass and a little less mid than the highs. Take the preamp out of the Deuce and run it into an old rockman using the CLEAN setting, no chorus for the early EVH stuff. Take the line output of the Rockman and into a Crown power amp and into a 4x12 cabinet. Mike it close to the best sounding speaker. And eureka, Eruption!

Yum, Yum! Eat em up!
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Originally posted by Jim Orkis:

Don't ask me how or why, but this worked for me when it was all I had to use:

 

Guitar of your choice into a Boss DS-1, Phaser and/or Flanger and echo unit, then into a Peavy Deuce. The EQ setting on the deuce were heavy on the bass and a little less mid than the highs. Take the preamp out of the Deuce and run it into an old rockman using the CLEAN setting, no chorus for the early EVH stuff. Take the line output of the Rockman and into a Crown power amp and into a 4x12 cabinet. Mike it close to the best sounding speaker. And eureka, Eruption!

Yeah, there's something about torturing your signal path to get such a simple tone, but it's all good I guess... :D Sounds like fun, though.

 

OffTopic:

For a "tortured" setup, this one\'s a fave of mine. It's since been simplified by the use of Line 6 rack units going direct to board, but Fredrik Thordendal still uses his synth and breath controller live. Even with those units, it's still plenty loud live. At least that's what I've been told by my friends who've seen them live in recent tours.

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Not enough of a Van Fan to know if this is part of the "brown sound"( which is really a re-terning of Clapton's "woman tone", I think, isn't it?) but I recently read this comment by Dave Lindley, "I learned a great setting on the Eventide Harmonizer from Eddie Van Halen---he calls it 'Three of Me'".
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