zeronyne Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 With the intent to NOT hijack the _American made_ thread, I've moved this response here: Originally posted by webe123: A couple of questions...first, WHY would you even be interested in owning an Epiphone or Gibson les paul when you have over a two thousand dollar guitar?? Also why would you feel unworthy to own an american instrument when you have one that cost more than some american instruments do??? That Parker fly deluxe is nothing to sneeze at! Musicians friend lists a parker fly deluxe for $2,199.99. Did you mean a parker P-38?? I don't know what kind of "budget" guitar you mean that parker even makes!! Their p-38 sells for way more than a regular epiphone les paul! Haha, I guess it does seem a bit inane to be hemming and hawing over an Epi when I have a Fly Deluxe...but I got it as a trade for a vintage keyboard. I absolutely love the Fly. It is a great guitar to learn on -to say the least. The neck is some incredible composite material and the light body makes it easy to play for a hours. That said, I would never have bought a Fly as my first guitar if this hadn't happened. I would probably have bought a <$500 Jackson or Ibanez. I got to play a Gothic Les Paul...which i think is a Les Paul Studio with a terrible flat finish, right?..., and I was blown away by the tone and how it felt in my hands. A completely different feel than the Fly. I then tried a few others, including a PRS and an american Strat, and I realized that starting to learn how to play on a Fly may not have been the best idea IF I was going to play other guitars. I am not dissing the Fly at all, but I think it is not a typical guitar playing experience. So I wanted a Les Paul Studio, but it was a little bit pricey at the time, so I considered an Epi...hence my original question. I guess I just need to play a few, but what I was wondering about was their longevity. Do the less premium woods handle aging as well as the better woods? What about the hardware? "For instance" is not proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 I would hazard a geuss that, if you are sure that you like a guitar when it's new, it will be at least as nice when some miles and years have gained on it, as long as it is reasonably cared for. Look at how, for their very specific "character" tones, some people love vintage Danelectros, and they're made of sub-"less-premium-woods"- masonite and pine and vinyl tape! Clean it, polish it, put a little pure lemon oil on the fretboard once in a while, keep the truss-rod adjusted periodically, etc.- and that Epi will still be your bud, perhaps even gaining a little with the years! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 I'd seriously look at the faded Gibson models at around $600. I just picked up an SG Faded (Brown) yesterday and I'm totally in love. I have a mid 90's Epiphone LP that it's replacing and let me tell you, it's night and day difference! The Epi was almost the same price ($579) new not including $160 in Seymour Duncan humbuckers plus installation. Why get a sub-standard Korean made guitar when you can have the real deal for the same price? FWIW, out of the faded series I like the SG the best. Although I love LP's, the SG is much lighter, easier to play sitting down, and has the same type of great humbucking tone. I figure if it's good enough for Angus, then it's good enough for me . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prague Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Good idea, D Man. I'd try a SG first. Mine has 498 and 500 humbuckers. It has a great LP sound and even an SG sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc taz Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 I like the SG's too, but I find the Les Pauls more versatile. I can get a nice, not too bright tone for jazz and cleaner stuff, and still crank 'em up for rock 'n roll and heavy metal. I guess the Pauls are more refined, whereas the SG's are great for getting down and dirty. Then again, the opposite is true. I think John Abercrombie used an SG during his jazz fusion period in the seventies. sevenstring.org profile my flickr page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarzan Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 another sweeet gibson in the faded series is the les paul junior faded (dual cutaway) with 2 p90's. i do love the dual cutaways. http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=193274 rock it, i will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 As others have said, definitely scope out various other Gibsons (and other brands) in the same price range. I wasn't so much plugging Epiphones as I was throwing in my two-cents about your aging question. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeronyne Posted October 21, 2003 Author Share Posted October 21, 2003 Thanks for the great replies. I will definitely check out the SG's. For some reason, I just really do not like binding. I respect and appreciate the finer details like binding, but I love the clean, simple look of a Les Paul Studio. But I definitely will look at the faded series. This is my first time hearing about it. Thanks again. "For instance" is not proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Ya know, if you comb shops that carry used guitars, you should sometime come up with a used Les Paul Studio or two. I've seen plenty that were in great shape. The '90s models that happen to have ebony fretboards in particular are generally well liked guitars. And no binding! I happen to have a Studio with a pair of P-90 "soapbar" single-coil pickups and a rosewood fretboard, a "Gem" model to be exact. I paid $695.00 for it. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lone Chicken Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 I realize that I might start a proverbial food fight (or whatever expression one might use) with this comment here, but this discussion makes me think of a t-shirt that I owned back around 1980--the words on that custom-printed t-shirt were: "Why settle for Les, when you can own a Fender Strat." But anyhow...(LOL) Robert J. ("Bob") Welch III "If you were the only person who ever lived, God still would have sent Jesus His only Son to die on the cross for YOU, because that is how much HE LOVES YOU!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave da Dude Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 The Lone Chicken, "Why settle for Les, when you can own a Fender Strat." How about "Why settle for a Les OR a Strat, when you can have BOTH?" Dave Gotta' geetar... got the amp. There must be SOMEthing else I... "need". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lone Chicken Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 @Dave th Dude: good point there. Back in the days when I actually had that t-shirt, when it came to electric guitars, for the most part it was either Gibson or Fender. Much has changed since then, and now it seems there are countless brands, all featuring well-made guitars that play and sound fantastic. All the same though, I personally will forever be a "Strat-man"! Robert J. ("Bob") Welch III "If you were the only person who ever lived, God still would have sent Jesus His only Son to die on the cross for YOU, because that is how much HE LOVES YOU!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave da Dude Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Lone chicken, I don't know if I'm a Strat or Les Paul man yet, but I'm pretty sure my "good" "Les Paul" will be a Hamer Studio! This is all in my "Five Year Plan", especially since I'm unemployed right now. Dave Gotta' geetar... got the amp. There must be SOMEthing else I... "need". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webe123 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by zeronyne: With the intent to NOT hijack the _American made_ thread, I've moved this response here: Originally posted by webe123: A couple of questions...first, WHY would you even be interested in owning an Epiphone or Gibson les paul when you have over a two thousand dollar guitar?? Also why would you feel unworthy to own an american instrument when you have one that cost more than some american instruments do??? That Parker fly deluxe is nothing to sneeze at! Musicians friend lists a parker fly deluxe for $2,199.99. Did you mean a parker P-38?? I don't know what kind of "budget" guitar you mean that parker even makes!! Their p-38 sells for way more than a regular epiphone les paul! Haha, I guess it does seem a bit inane to be hemming and hawing over an Epi when I have a Fly Deluxe...but I got it as a trade for a vintage keyboard. I absolutely love the Fly. It is a great guitar to learn on -to say the least. The neck is some incredible composite material and the light body makes it easy to play for a hours. That said, I would never have bought a Fly as my first guitar if this hadn't happened. I would probably have bought a <$500 Jackson or Ibanez. I got to play a Gothic Les Paul...which i think is a Les Paul Studio with a terrible flat finish, right?..., and I was blown away by the tone and how it felt in my hands. A completely different feel than the Fly. I then tried a few others, including a PRS and an american Strat, and I realized that starting to learn how to play on a Fly may not have been the best idea IF I was going to play other guitars. I am not dissing the Fly at all, but I think it is not a typical guitar playing experience. So I wanted a Les Paul Studio, but it was a little bit pricey at the time, so I considered an Epi...hence my original question. I guess I just need to play a few, but what I was wondering about was their longevity. Do the less premium woods handle aging as well as the better woods? What about the hardware?Well I was the one that started the thread about american made guitars and wondered what happened to your response! Now I know.... anyway, check out what I just bought http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2563573203&category=38086&rd=1 I got this Gibson Les Paul Studio for $740.00 including the guitar, case, strap and shipping! ($700.00 for the guitar, case and strap and an extra $40.00 shipping UPS ground) There are even more deals like that on ebay! check this out! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2566823015&category=38086 It includes a Gibson Les Paul studio and hardshell case for $700.00! The new "faded" series Gibson Les Pauls do not look as good to me as the studio les pauls and they sell new for $599.00 at places like musicians friend. For $100.00 extra and a little looking on ebay you can get a sweet looking Gibson Les Paul Studio! By the way, I won the auction by the slimmest of margins! I had a final bid $700.00 on the guitar and their was another guy that bid the same amount....only he made the bid AFTER I did and the auction ended. So I won because I put my bid in FIRST! Even though it was a tie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguit Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 There are some nice suggestions and opinions offered above. I'd advise to try the Epiphone Elite Les Paul, if you can. Japanese built, easily upgradable if desired; I played one and it felt like more of a "lifetime" guitar. The Gibson Studio models, based on my experience, can be terrific if one can pick through several and find their best choice. I've played some that were keepers and some that were dogs. The Gem LP's are really sweet. A P-90 set of pickups on the Les Paul's wood formula adds up to tone, tone, tone. Finally, I'll just mention that I have a Hamer Artist Archtop and a Heritage HC-150 that do the Les Paul thing very well, and offer greater bang-for-the-buck than my Les Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webe123 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by alguit: There are some nice suggestions and opinions offered above. I'd advise to try the Epiphone Elite Les Paul, if you can. Japanese built, easily upgradable if desired; I played one and it felt like more of a "lifetime" guitar. The Gibson Studio models, based on my experience, can be terrific if one can pick through several and find their best choice. I've played some that were keepers and some that were dogs. The Gem LP's are really sweet. A P-90 set of pickups on the Les Paul's wood formula adds up to tone, tone, tone. Finally, I'll just mention that I have a Hamer Artist Archtop and a Heritage HC-150 that do the Les Paul thing very well, and offer greater bang-for-the-buck than my Les Paul.Just went to musicians friend and looked at the epiphone elite guitars! They are really nice! BUT.... they are really expensive! They have 3 models of epiphone elite les pauls..... the standard ($949.99) the standard plus ($1,049.99) and the custom ($929.99) This is the decription musicians friend gave them...... "This is an instrument that approaches custom shop perfection. The Elite series instruments are made with premium woods, fitted with American pickups and circuitry -- even American-made toggle switches and Grover tuners. All they lack are the nitrocellulose finishes of their Gibson counterparts. They are made at a special factory devoted to their manufacture where they receive a high degree of hands-on luthier attention." So apparently, not much is different between these guitars and Gibson made guitars! But they are as expensive as the american made instruments. To me, if I was going to get a les paul for that amount of money, I would probably just get an american made Gibson model! Of course, those prices are for NEW models, but you could do a search on ebay and pick up a used one.....here is one but the reserve is not met! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2566398649&category=33037 Here is a Gibson les paul studio GEM http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2565964185&category=38086 They are also pricy, though I DO like those soapbar pickups! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Why I want a Les Paul...........because all those light guitars are for wimps! Or.....because a Burns Bison, just doesn't fit my image. OR.....all the cool bands have one. Just kidding. The only Les Paul's I'd want to own is a Goldtop with P90s like Lees, or the SG Les Paul, which is quite the guitar as well. They are great for a three piece, cause they help fill the sonic space a bit. Especially through the right amp. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave da Dude Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Hey NGB (couldn't remember it all), They are great for a three piece, cause they help fill the sonic space a bit. Especially through the right amp. Not to be dis-respectful, but, my Martin D-18 through a solid state amp fulfills the ".. fill the sonic space .." parameter. I imagine through my tube amp would be even better. After finally playing a Les Paul (Standard), I see the need the need for the tone, but (for the price, $1,949.99), ".. it's not all that." I've played numerous guitars for 1/4 to 1/2 the price that can DO the same thing. Do they sound exactly like a Les Paul? No. But the fill the space and sound good. There are lots of other good options. On ebay, Hamer Studios go for about $1,000 or less and from everything I've "heard" (I have not actually played, can't find one), they are as good, OR BETTER. I think the question is "Which TONE do you like?", not Strat or LP. This is assuming that you have SOME financial restraint. If you're like James (of Italy) then by all means, buy a Strat Custom and a Les Paul Custom. Dave Gotta' geetar... got the amp. There must be SOMEthing else I... "need". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by alguit: "The Gibson Studio models, based on my experience, can be terrific if one can pick through several and find their best choice. I've played some that were keepers and some that were dogs."Yes. This is so very true! "The Gem LP's are really sweet. A P-90 set of pickups on the Les Paul's wood formula adds up to tone, tone, tone."Essentially, a knock-off (but not a true "Reissue") of a '56 Les Paul, in different colors. P-90's are, after all, the original Les Paul compliment of pickups. Long may they bark, squeal, and sound "like ringin' a bell"! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by Dave th Dude: Not to be dis-respectful, but, my Martin D-18 through a solid state amp fulfills the ".. fill the sonic space .." parameter. I imagine through my tube amp would be even better. Given that an acoustic guitar has a wider freq response than its electric counterpart.....well yeah???? I play in a three piece, and the right guitar and amp do play an important part in "filling the sonic space". It can also ruin it when you are competing with others in the same range. Dave....its Geenard...its my Hallows Eve persona! Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webe123 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Or.....because a Burns Bison, just doesn't fit my image. I can't imagine a "burns bison" fitting ANYBODYS image! I don't know how they sound, but to me, they look HORRIBLE! Looks like a cow made into a guitar! (or vice-versa) But to tell you the truth, the burns steer is what I think REALLY looks bad! here are pictures of the Burns Bison... http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=0310220107500122210050039447 14/g=home/search/detail/base_id/105141 and the Burns Steer http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=031022010750012221005003944 714/g=guitar/search/detail/base_id/78983 Not very appealing as far as looks to me, but hey.... "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" ....my eye just thinks those two guitars are UGLY! (HE! HE!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarzan Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 my eyes are burning!!! ugly guitars....ugly...must..stop...pain.... http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=193274 rock it, i will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklava Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Why I wouldn't like a Les Paul? to heavy,too much money.1,700.00 for a classic set up was horrible.Come to find out alot of people had the same problem.POOR QUALITY CONTROL! You know what though?nothing could be sweeter than the meater of these tone machine's.So i'll just have to take a chance,and one day get one. The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webe123 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by guitarzan the impaler: my eyes are burning!!! ugly guitars....ugly...must..stop...pain.... oh, c'mon guitarzan......you KNOW you want one!!! Why not break out the 'ol checkbook and get one NOW???(HE! HE!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webe123 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by DARKLAVA: Why I wouldn't like a Les Paul? to heavy,too much money.1,700.00 for a classic set up was horrible.Come to find out alot of people had the same problem.POOR QUALITY CONTROL! You know what though?nothing could be sweeter than the meater of these tone machine's.So i'll just have to take a chance,and one day get one.Yeah, I guess that was what Gibson guitars was built on....POOR QUALITY CONTROL!! (HE! HE!) Seriously, though, I had a Gibson les paul deluxe and didn't like the weight because I was having back problems at the time and when I played in church, sometimes standing for an hour or two playing made it feel like the paul weighed a TON! Now that my back is healed, I am wanting that tone back again! As far as setup of my old les paul deluxe....it was fantastic right from the factory! I still remember my old tone.....just hope this 1998 les paul studio I got is one of the good ones people are talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc taz Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 I like this one just fine. I'd at least get the Dunlop strap locks, and a decent strap, .011-.054 strings (so I can detune occasionally) and be done with it. And a SKB Les Paul case, too. Gig bags suck. sevenstring.org profile my flickr page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave da Dude Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 NGB/Geenard, Given that an acoustic guitar has a wider freq response than its electric counterpart.....well yeah???? I play in a three piece, and the right guitar and amp do play an important part in "filling the sonic space". It can also ruin it when you are competing with others in the same range. Dave....its Geenard...its my Hallows Eve persona! Yeah. I agree. But, if ALL you (generic "you") want is ".. to fill the sonic space ..", use the acoustic and the amp. I think what I was trying to say, is that it's the tone of the guitar. A guitar that has a tone LIKE a Strat, or LIKE a Les Paul. That doesn't necessarily mean it has to BE a Strat or BE a Les Paul. That's all I was trying to say. Of course there's also the TONE of a Rickenbaker, which may be available ONLY with a Ric, or ???? etc., etc. tones. It appears to me now, after two years of hangin' 'round here, that the two MAJOR (yes I know there are others) tones are that like the Strat (SC, 25 1/2" scale lg., alder body, open) and that like the Les Paul (HB, 24 3/4" scale lg., mahogany body, "darker"). Of course there are variations, the "Fat Strat", SG, etc. These are SLIGHTLY different than their "parent" tones. Excuse the verbal diherrea. I'm done now. Dave Oh yeah, I want one of each. I'm almost half-way there. I tried the combination of H-S-H, but it doesn't qutie "cut it". Gotta' geetar... got the amp. There must be SOMEthing else I... "need". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Dave, you know, just when I think I've got all the guitars I could ever want, I get a FREAKING catalog. And wouldn't you know it, that cool ass guitar I've been drooling over just happens to be on sale. I know your pain. Les Pauls are cool, but I was playing a Tele, when they weren't cool....don't think I'll stop now. I do have a smoking little SG, with P90's that walks the dog, serial # trace back to 1965.....which is cool since I got it in 68 or so! I don't think I own a humbucker equipped guitar....nope, sure don't. I'd like to have one.......wheres that catalog? Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave da Dude Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 NGB/Geenard, I don't think I own a humbucker equipped guitar....nope, sure don't. I'd like to have one.......wheres that catalog? You and I are just like what I accuse my sons of; when in a toy store they both want ".. one of each .." Actually, maybe that's not such a bad idea! All I need is a Hamer Studio, Tele Nashville, Mockingbird (vintage natural wood finish), ES335, ...... Burrrrp! More GAS. Sorry. Gotta' geetar... got the amp. There must be SOMEthing else I... "need". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Originally posted by Dave th Dude: All I need is a Hamer Studio, Tele Nashville, Mockingbird (vintage natural wood finish), ES335, ...... Burrrrp! More GAS. Sorry. [/QB]I have the Nashville Tele.....good bar guitar for sure. I had to swap out the bridge pickup, didn't have enough oomph. I play in a three peice half the time and have to have oomph. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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