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revolead

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Originally posted by Geenard Skeenard:

I think this whole conversation can be brought down to simple terms......being able to read music is a huge plus, but it ain't everything!

Very good. Believe it or not that what I was trying to say, a bit defensively.

:)

All the best,

 

Henry Robinett

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Originally posted by henryrobinett:

Originally posted by Geenard Skeenard:

I think this whole conversation can be brought down to simple terms......being able to read music is a huge plus, but it ain't everything!

Very good. Believe it or not that what I was trying to say, a bit defensively.

:)

No, you guys are my fave to read. Just trying in my feeble way to defuse the tension in the room! :) Though I can easily navigate through the verbage, sometimes it does get wordy enough that multiple interpretations can be gained from a paragraph of well intentioned mess! Kinda like music, sometimes simple terms are the best. :)
Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
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Originally posted by Istislah:

But those effects were ALWAYS out there. Bach had fewer consumers to please, and they were pretty much universally wealthy and sophisticated by the standard of the day; but they were still consumers and the product (music) was still a financially viable, saleable commodity. You seem to be arguing from the "golden age" theory of history. I just don't think that holds up so well when you actually look at the history involved.

 

Yea, yeah, yeah. I know. I've always been more of an idealist rather than a realist. I think of the way the world SHOULD and wonder why it isn't and strive for the ideal, because I know the other way lies doom, gloom, hopelessness, regret, and purposelessness. How's that for a black and white generality?

 

I think the artist should ultimately envision what he wants to create regardless of shackles, church stipends, record company advances, audience requesting dance tunes . . .

 

I don't think history bodes well either, and I don't want to hold up Torquemada as anything to aspire to return to. But I'd love us to attempt to traverse UP that entropy slope. Impossible though I know it is. Human knowledge, though fraught with sink/stink holes and pestilence, has certain wonderful, beautiful demarkation lines and landmarks. I just think the promise of our potential is being championed by the masses of the uninformed and proud of it. Yes and I think American society, in her quest to march forward has taken the path of most money rather than the path of what is good and better, because what is good and better is defined as "what the market will bear". The buyer knows. Well the buyer doesn't always know in all manner of things, because what we have is the lowest common denominator.

 

I think we are closer to agreement than we are disagreement anyway. In some things anyway.

 

Apparently I've been practicing wrong, is there some way to do it without "thousands of hours?" ;-)

 

Well I've easily spent thousands upon thousands of hours practicing and I still suck, so what do I know? :D

 

Not quite. I don't believe that because you can understand the nuances of groove quantize means that you can pick up a guitar or bass and groove with a group of live musicians. Two entirely different things. You can recognize what a groove is when you hear it, but can you play it without the technology developed and defined by somebody elses algorithms?

 

That's my point in reverse. Can you really program it in, and do it well, without understanding it? I know the marketing type says you can... but can you really?

Really, I have no idea. Well I do know plenty of guys who can't play shit, and never could but they can program the hell out of a drum machine/sequencer.

 

You may have misunderstood me. I think the current musical notation is fine and there is no reason to change it. I am, however, more agreeable to arguments that it needs to be supplanted than I am to arguments that it should be ignored.
Hey, that's fine. I think I misunderstand MOST things.

:D

 

Agreed.

All the best,

 

Henry Robinett

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I personally think the whole issue requires a very narrow definition of music. sure, in certain disciplines reading is a requirement but not even close to all of them. Real music comes from the heart and does not nescessarily require any specific knowlege to make. somewhere in the unexplored jungles there is a musician that puts all of us to shame that hasn't heard bach or yngwie.

Reach out and grab a clue.

 

Something Vicious

My solo crap

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wow, what a can of worms. i'm getting in it late... but here goes...

 

the latin thing. latin is dead language and therefore a little arcane to know and understand, reading music is not.

 

musicianship is greatly increased by the ability to read, but it is not the the whole ball of wax (check out Django, not only couldn't read music, but was also illiterate and managed to influence jazz music forever).

 

personally, i am learning to read now, after seventeen years of playing without it. why? more gigs, more money, more pleasure doing what i love with more diverse people. i have played jazz since high school, but i'm getting a helluva lot better now because i can read charts instead of having to memorize everything by rote.

 

am i better than you? f**k no. it's choice, nothing more. but it's the most satisfying choice i've made in a long time.

 

a better choice than the 50 bucks i gave to stippers at lunch today! :love:

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I agree completely that they're are players who read that are great. I'm not even defending that, although some people may be. I'm trying to point out that reading music does help and can help, but also that too often guitarists are stereotyped as wanking morons without an ounce of direction or humbleness.
Shut up and play.
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