revolead Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 daddyelmis - Thanks for the laugh. I guess I was trying to get at something like that. Shut up and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James-Italy Posted October 8, 2003 Author Share Posted October 8, 2003 My Gear My Attempts at Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not coaster MODERATOR Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 this is very inspiring! i'd like to get a thread going maybe by this weekend where we post up short clips of our direct tones and talk about ways to improve things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuddsound Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 James, I was fooled for a minut there! I thought I could feel the air moving from sample #1 (Pod XT). It seemed to have more of a thump to it. I've been thinking about buying one of them, but you read conflicting reviews, and $300.00 is a lot of money for something that you might end up not being happy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin-erator Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I've recorded direct with other devices and recorded tube amps. The real deal is hard to beat. But, with devices like the pod, it's easy to get good sounds. This is my thought on all of this: Marshall sells a lot of solid state amps because solid state amps sound like a good tube amp after it has been recorded, mixed, mastered, and running through your stereo. Live, there is nothing better than a good tube amp! Vinny Cervoni vcbluzman@hotmail.com www.bluzberrypi.com www.42ndstband.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc taz Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Originally posted by Vinny Cervoni: This is my thought on all of this: Marshall sells a lot of solid state amps because solid state amps sound like a good tube amp after it has been recorded, mixed, mastered, and running through your stereo. That's generally true, if you're talking about indie bands just starting out. Most pro bands usually can afford to use tube amps for both live shows and recording sessions. sevenstring.org profile my flickr page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detour Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Maybe this opinion is unnecessary, but here goes: Units like the Pod XT do an amazing job of capturing a "snapshot" of a tube tone, and the recordings at the start of this thread show that. Where modeling devices mostly fall flat on their little digital faces is when the player varies his/her guitar output, either with touch or volume knob. The author/artist making those clips stated he used his guitar full-on, and by tweaking things made the sounds somewhat similar. A further test would be to try those same setups with varying levels of volume-knob settings. I don't doubt that 9 out of 10 players would then be able to tell tubes from cybertubes almost immediately. Oh well...that's my 2-cents... Larz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 I was totally wrong. I thought the first was more raw and almost out of control and I thought it was the tube. OTOH, the second one sounded too compressed/processed so I thought it was the POD. I did think the first would stand out in a mix better but I'd treat it with more compression to smooth it out a touch. I do like the Schnert's version of #2 better than the original #2. Then again, my main amp is a hybrid (tube preamp, solid state power amp) so I'm very confused to begin with. aka riffing Double Post music: Strip Down http://rimspeed.com http://loadedtheband.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prague Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Good work, James. It is so difficult to get guitarists (all musicians, really) to try something new. Modeling works great and you proved it here. The guitarists here got it right about 50%, so audiences will never guess. I noticed most of the comments were subjective in nature, but none were that either tone was unuseable. It would be interesting to try this test while telling everyone that BOTH tones were from amplifiers (just asking for a preference). I'll bet no one would have guessed one was modelled. At the same time, if you had said that BOTH tones were modelled, you would have heard many say that both of the tones sucked and the modelling was obvious. We have about 30 great tones that we use for Gibson & Fender guitars, and we can dial them up in seconds. It works great live, as we concentrate on the band sound as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flagshipmile354 Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Hi guys, I wanted to interject on the POD XT. I recorded with the POD XT and I must say that it is easy and it sounds damn good. I wouldn't say it is the equivelent of a tube amp but it is damn close. I think the differences are noticable for soloing more that for rythmn. There is a certain dynamic complexity that is lost when one tries to 'pinch' a harmonic. Like if I play through a VHT amplifier every note I pick sounds different. it has alot of color. The POD is unable to achieve this. If you are interested in seeing the difference for solos, please listen to my band's downloadable music files at www.flagshipmile.com If you listen to the 3rd track you will hear ALL POD XT including solos. My solo on the fourth track is a miked Duel Rectifier with the clean sound turned to 10. You will notice more complexity in the tone. I prefer VHT amplifiers over anything, but I can't afford one!! Anyways, if your interested check out the link, it works now. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Hey, welcome to the Forum, flagshipmile354. Cool first post, I must add! I'll check out those samples when I can get around to it, and will post back with my observations on the continuing saga of tubes vs. modeling. I have a Johnson J-Station that I use as a headphone-amp, and it's way cool for that. Not as nice as a lot of newer modelers, but perfectly fine for my use of it. I also dig on tubes, to make an understatement. Well, as you'll doubtless find out, there's a great crew of excellent and often oddbal (in all the best ways) folks that hang here, you just might make some friends if you're not too careful... See-ya! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teahead Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Ditto to Caevans niceties, but, the link don't work! Flagaship is it just me or is it a typo in the address? Pedal Clips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Ah, it results in a "Cannot Find" error-message for me, as well, Canard-du-Teashoulders... Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teahead Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Not wanting to hi-jack this thread, but keen on a real time answer to the question of, "How the hell are ya Kevin?" Pedal Clips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Could be better, could be worse. (My standard, canned answer to those types of questions.) Pretty good, actually, no news, but that can be good news! Cold and wet here, no surprise, egh? Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teahead Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Good to hear you're hanging in there! Drop me a few lines when you have the time, to resume normal service, how about that link??? Tea, Pedal Clips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flagshipmile354 Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Ops, my link was wrong. It is really www.flagshipmile.com If anyone listens please let me know, I would be curious for your opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 flagshipmile354- which of these tunes of yours do you consider the best example of the PODxt- and youself- in action? Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flagshipmile354 Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Well, I only used the POD XT on the 3rd song 'Gotta be me'. That is all POD XT. I used the POD for clean parts on the first song also. I think my lead tone on the 4th song 'Destination' is my best tone. As for my playing on any of the songs, I am not sure. I like my solo on 'No martyr' the best but that is cuz I think that is our best song. Gotta be me has a cool solo in it, more 80's sounding or something. Thanks for listening. As for POD XT, I really think it is cool. I think it is about 80% of a tube amp. If you listen to Destination solo you will notice the tonal complexity. POD could never deliver this. That is just a Duel Rec clean channel turned up to 10. In fact I blew a fuse during it. I wish I could afford a VHT! Those to me are the best sounding rock amps around. Super versatile and dynamically neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playitpaul Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Your new song is great. WOW! playitpaul@aol.com www.playitpaul.com let me know when you sell it. I WANT IT. YOU ARE THE GREATEST. Paul PLAYING THE BEST FOR YOU! WWW.PLAYITPAUL.COM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave da Dude Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 IMHO, when playing at home, or trying to develop a new sound, or just screwin' 'round with covers, I think modeling is just fine. Once you have "your sound" , the modeling should just be for covers, with "the real thing" for other live work. My two and a half cents. Dave PS Sometimes the best tactic for spam is to just ignore it. Gotta' geetar... got the amp. There must be SOMEthing else I... "need". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Hey, paul! That lefty Les Paul- "Bobbie"- is one sweet looking guitar! In fact, that whole stash of lefties is real bitchin'! I noticed that the one flat-top on the left is a righty, apparently with the pickguard removed; do you string that one lefty, righty, or something radical? Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Sheesh, been meaning to comment on this thread for awhile now. Originally posted by dcunning30: when you do shows, fans don't run up to you afterward excitedly proclaiming how your awesome tube tone rocked their socks off.Really? Mine do. Maybe yours are just jealous. Couple of random comments.... A lot of you know that my band was recently selected for a sponsorship deal with Bose, to launch their new Personal Amplification System. I was flown up to Bose for a couple of days of training, and Bose has a "house band" that was demonstrating the system. There were two guitarists in the band, one of whom plays through a POD XT and the other through an Emery low-wattage "boutique" amp. Both are excellent players to say the least. Anyhow, myself and a couple of other guitar players who were there for the training were listening to the demo band, and keep in mind that we had no idea what either of the guys' rigs were - the rigs were off the stage behind a curtain. Immediately the other guitar players and I heard the guy with the Emery do a solo and we all said to each other: "There's NO WAY that's any kind of modeler. That's a tube amp." The other guy, we could tell pretty much right away that it probably WAS a modeler. It just didn't have the impact that the tube amp did, period. Later on in the training, I got to play through the POD XT myself, and although the tone wasn't bad after some tweaking (this player has done a LOT of deep editing on the XT), I didn't feel anything like inspired playing through it. I feel pretty much the same about my POD at home - I use it sometimes for a scratch track when arranging stuff, but never on a "keeper" track. In short, in many situations you CAN tell the difference, although there are some types of amps (especially hi gain amps) that can be modelled more successfully than others. I can usually tell the difference. Also, even if audiences (or guitar players) can't tell the difference in tone from listening to the end result, that's kind of beside the point and doesn't really "prove" anything. When it comes to any kind of artistic work, IMO the process is just as important as the end result. In other words whatever inspires the artist to give their best performance is what makes the most difference. If you are used to playing through a tube amp, a modeller responds completely differently to your touch, to the guitar controls, etc. This may not be as apparent, again, with hi gain amps and/or for people who use a lot of pedals, but it definitely doesn't feel right to somebody used to playing a guitar straight into a tube amp. I can tell the difference there immediately, and I don't feel that I play as well through a POD (or a solid state amp for that matter). It's not that I play badly or that anybody would be likely to complain about my performance - I'll still sound all right and still sound like "me" for the most part - but for the best performance that I'm capable of, I need a tube amp. And why would I not choose the tools that I feel I can do my best with at all times? No reason except convenience, which is another way of saying "laziness," and that's not acceptable to me. That is the missing ingredient in a lot of these "shootout" type comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James-Italy Posted December 2, 2003 Author Share Posted December 2, 2003 Lee, Congrats on the Bose sponsorship, I didn't know anything about it. It must be a great experience for you and a testament to your sound. I don't think Bose would be sponsoring anyone that didn't already have a great sound to begin with. Awesome for you and the band! Just a quick comment since I started this thread. I don't think of this as a "shoot-out thread". It was never my intention to say that a modeler was a substitute for a great tube amp and I was commenting on the "convenience" factor more than anything. I think the Pod is great for lazy musicians, like me, to cop someone else's sound easily. Or to cop a sound I'm not really interested in long-term but just curious to hear. I don't think the Pod can replace a great tube amp, but it can replicate pretty decently MANY tube amps. For someone on a budget or who doesn't have the money it offers huge bang for the buck. If you listened to my clips then you heard that whether I used the boutique tube amps or the PodXT it was still the same shitty guitarist. Even the best tools cannot transform a mediocre guitarist in an impresario. Since there are probably more guitarists closer to my skill level (as in lack of!) than yours, the Pod allows those of us in dire need of practice, practice, and more practice the possibility to dial in a sound and play. As opposed to spending countless hours twisting dials and playing with pedals and effects. You have a great sound, Lee. But it's your sound and you've worked years on it and you've perfected it. You'd still sound great with a Pod, but there would probably be a little touch missing like you said. It's not really fair to compare you to a new, or relatively new, guitarist who hasn't developed their style yet. The Pod or other modelers offer a wealth of sounds for a relatively low cost. It gives someone the chance to hear the differences and maybe decide for themselves what they prefer. I personally would not reccomend a THD Univalve or JTM45 or VHT Pitbull 50 to a new guitarist, and I've got one of each. I would reccomend a Pod (or similiar) to get them started and then when they are ready to develop their sound I'd steer them to towards the right tube amp. I had a discussion with the music store owner the other day as I bought the VHT and traded in my PodXT for the XTpro. He believes the Pod is more useful to an accomplished guitarist that knows what he is looking for and can find it quickly than a beginner. In his view the Pod is great for a studio guitarist who needs to be good and versatile and above all FAST. But, for a beginner he feels the Pod is too much of a crutch and doesn't always help the beginner to learn good tecnique as a tube amp would. It was an interesting take on it. Edit: After re-reading what I wrote above I feel like maybe it will come across as a kind of rebuttal. I don't see anything to change though... So I'll just say here that I really don't mean to argue with you. I just thought I'd throw out the lazy side's view! My Gear My Attempts at Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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