The Beginners Dumb Questions Thread

[Caevan O’Shite]

Originally posted by Paul Edwards:

"I agree with it being in a major key however you can substitute as follows for the chords that are not I IV or V:

ii with the IV

iii or vi with the I

vii- with the V"

HMMMNN... I'll have to look into that, or, if you have the time and patience, you could 'splain it to me a little more fully- you know, with some practical application examples, etc.

 

I tend to come up with music on the guitar by following what I hear in my mind's ear as the next step, or the step to connect two parts; often, I hear a high and a low tone, in my mind, and have to fill in the blanks for the middle voices, if there are any. (I guess this an example of "voice leading", compositionally.)

 

I use "theorey" to figure out what I've slapped together after the fact. Not always the most efficient way, I'd wager, but so far it's served me well enough.

 

Anyways, as for the "I-IV-V" remark, I just might have to eat my words; but I'm always happy to have been wrong, for the right reasons!

[Paul Edwards]

QUOTE]HMMMNN... I'll have to look into that, or, if you have the time and patience, you could 'splain it to me a little more fully [/QB]

 

There are three basic tonal centers in a major key. The tonic which is the I, the subdominant which is the IV, and the dominant which is the V.

 

The other chords built from the major scale really still fall into one of these three tonal centers.

 

For example an Am chord is ACE while its relative major is C (CEG). There is only one note different between the two. Now if you had a common progression like C Am Dm G (I,iv,ii,V) you could play the C for both the C and Am. Play an F for the Dm ( F= FAC and Dm is DFA, agin one note different).

Now it may not sound exactly like the progression but you could sing your tune over it and it would not be so dissonant that it would not work.

 

As far as Tedsters reply I understand where you are coming from I just don't agree with that approach. That's OK, no disrespect intended. I just think it's important to get that basic theory stuff right up front.

[Tedster]

I tried it your way, Paul. Bored people to tears, and they ended up dropping.

 

I taught from a method book for awhile, until I noticed that most of the folks I taught were dropping out quickly. So I started giving 'em the ol' I-IV-V cadence bit. Most folks couldn't do it. That's when I developed my approach. Now, perhaps some of you lucky teachers have some more nimble fingered, dedicated rookie students coming to you...but, I never did. Ordinary folks.

 

Now, I've taught in Michigan, Florida, Alaska, and here in the Kansas City area. (Mainly in Michigan and KC). Most of the people, no matter where you go, seem to be about the same. Once in awhile you get a gifted, dedicated player that seems to be a step ahead no matter what you do...or they just pick it up. Great! But most of the time, I've watched the people that want to learn (like I said...not to be the next Segovia, just be able to accompany themselves) get frustrated and quit. With this method, they are conditioning their fingers to play I-IV-V cadences in a very short while. But, they have to crawl first. They have to be able to not play chords, but change chords. Meanwhile...I'll stand behind my approach until I see something that works better. And in about 25 years on and off, I haven't.

[Paul Edwards]

Originally posted by Tedster HoffMonster:

I tried it your way, Paul. Bored people to tears, and they ended up dropping.

 

Meanwhile...I'll stand behind my approach until I see something that works better. And in about 25 years on and off, I haven't.

How soon after they get these three chords do you introduce the other open position chords?

When does single string study come into play?

I may try this with someone if it works as well as you say. It just doesn't sit right with me not to give the theory behind it. Perhaps different approaches for different types of students.

[Tedster]

Immediately.

 

The progression goes...

 

Em...Am...C...FMaj7 (think about it...two fingers move simultaneously)...D7...(one finger moves)...then the big jump to a G (using the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd fingers. Play an open D7 and go to that G).

 

Why FMaj7 instead of F? Because most people can't play an F when they first start out. Why give 'em something that frustrating? Besides, with the C - FMaj7 change, they can play "Band on the Run".

 

Now...the theory person in you is balking...most of those chords (if you play 'em in the order given) don't make much sense together. Aha...but, once they master those changes, being able to play two measures of each chord with minimal pause between, then we take the change from G - Em - C - D7...now, that's starting to sound a little more familiar. Heck, you can play Eddie Cheddar's cover of "Last Kiss" with those chords...as well as 90 percent of the music that came out in the 50s (for older students). Then come your familiar I-IV-Vs. Adding the Majors, A, E, B7...what have you. This exercise is to get them over that opening hurdle of being able to change chords. That's all.

 

I like to think of it like coaching a kid who can't do a pull up. He won't be able to develop the musculature to do a pull up if he can't do a pull up, unless you put him on a lat machine and let him build those muscles up.

[Tedster]

Oh yeah...single string study...

 

I give 'em a healthy dose of chords first. That way...if they quit after a month, they're armed to play "Kumbaya" around a campfire. Then, little by little, I'll introduce major scales and exercises. If they want method, I'll give 'em method. Most folks don't though. The course I teach is called "Recreational Guitar". No Tommy Tedescos here. No Howard Robertses here. A lot of Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash, Tom Petty, what have you wannabes here.

 

I think you're on to something about tailoring the instructional method to the player. Precisely. Someone who wants to play "Amazing Grace" at their Baptist Church youth group doesn't need a jazz approach...unless they want it.

[Paul Edwards]

Originally posted by Tedster HoffMonster:

Oh yeah...single string study...

 

I give 'em a healthy dose of chords first. That way...if they quit after a month, they're armed to play "Kumbaya" around a campfire.

Ah Ha!!! So your the one to blame for that!!!

 

I agree. Interview the student and find out what they want to get out of the lessons. If they just want to strum some Dylan tunes then show 'em what they need. No reason you can't add a little practical theory in as well. I think though that you should be up front in that you tell them that you are bypassing some information that is geared towards learning how to create music vs the "typewriter" approach to pickin' and strummin'.

[Tedster]

In my experience, it's been best to show 'em something they can show off with. The chords to a popular song they can play along with...be it rock, country, what have you. Keeps their interest. Makes 'em want more.

 

When I was using method books, after a month, they were playing single note renditions of "Row Row Row Your Boat" or "Mary Had a Little Lamb" (NOT the SRV version)...they'd lose it. IMO you can show 'em a lot more if you've got their attention.

 

Granted, for some, you never get their attention.

 

Sigh...

[Anifa]

Tedster didn't tell y'all that I cried when he told me I had to clip my finger nails off.

 

Tedster did convey to the class that he was teaching an alternative style to the oridinary applications and explained why.

 

When I took private music theory lessons at UMKC Conservatory of Music (piano) I told my instructor to forget about teaching me the song and dance behind Bach, Beethoven, and all the other famous composers; told him I didn't want to know about how there were slaves taken from Africa... I just wanted to learn to write music. Kind of like writing a composition without learning your abc's first

 

The private instruction was thrice the cost of credit hour courses and I wanted to jump ahead of the wagon, and start writing right now; IT SHOWS .

 

Anyway, I can see where Ted's approach would make the fingering positions much easier to a beginner, and less frustrating in trying to learn to change up chords. I remember this from the piano theory, where you wrote music with an up down flow in the music, and also easy and fluent movement on the fingering.

 

Now.... If Tedster tells me that I "HAVE" to cut my hair...... I QUIT!!!! And I'm not dying it purple either

[Blue Strat]

Originally posted by Tedster HoffMonster:

Originally posted by CaevanO'Shite:

Oh- Tedster- I absolutely love the new avatar. Picture of you after a hard night out?!?

Yup...it's what I wake up like in the morning...haha. Actually, Caveman, it's my Halloween avatar for the month of October. I heartily encourage everyone on board to acquire a Halloween Avatar. Of course, is that the Loch Ness Monster on your avatar? That would be appropriate in keeping with the season, I reckon.

...and I've got a guitar that looks like a punkin' for my avitar! Orange and black, very Halloween-ish, not to mention it's just a killer color scheme in general.

[doc taz]

Originally posted by Tedster HoffMonster:

The course I teach is called "Recreational Guitar". No Tommy Tedescos here. No Howard Robertses here. A lot of Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash, Tom Petty, what have you wannabes here.

Whoops, forgot that I'm in the wrong class...

[Caevan O’Shite]

Originally posted by bluestrat:

"...and I've got a guitar that looks like a punkin' for my avitar! Orange and black, very Halloween-ish, not to mention it's just a killer color scheme in general."

bluestrat- yer TheGreatPumpkinStrat now!

[Tedster]

Most people see someone playing a guitar and say, "That looks like fun". Yep. For most people, you've gotta keep the fun in there.

 

I think a common misconception among teachers is that everyone wants to be the next Yngwie Van Satriani, and that those that just want to strum chords will get their Uncle Ralph to show 'em. Actually, if you interview most kids (and even a lot of adults) coming for guitar lessons with the question "Why do you want to learn to play?" about a third of them will just shrug their shoulders. It's just something that seems cool to them. Then another third will just want to be able to strum some songs that they hear on the radio. Leaves about maybe 33 percent or less that answer "I want to be in a band". Of that final 33 percent...most of them just want to be able to drop tune and/or play some Godsmack riffs. Those you can reach with some patience, and inspire them to become better players. Maybe only a couple will actually be inspired to become "players", in the definition of "players" most on this board think of.

 

As Taz pointed out, I know completely who my audience is for this class. Don't be quick to second guess me...the course was called "Recreational Guitar" in the mailer. The first time (last spring), most of the class was made up of middle age guys who'd been wanting to learn a few chords since they were thirteen, just never had. Some of these people probably took standard "lessons" out of a Mel Bay book thirty years ago and lost interest. I'm giving them what they wanted to learn back then. And if anyone wants to learn more, I can do that too...

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm working on this arpeggiated string-skipping Mixolydian thing for the next class. And Anifa...make sure you have a purple Mohawk by Monday...

[Anifa]

http://static.manfood.socialecology.com/OnlyOnCapitolHill/purpleCurlyMohawk01.jpg

 

I also grew a goatee just for the event Ted!

[Tedster]

Great disguise...

[Anifa]

MY BAD!!! I didn't get a chance to practice tonight. TOO MANY KIDS AND KID ISSUES

[Gator Wing]

Originally posted by Tedster HoffMonster:

... They have to be able to not play chords, but change chords.

So very true!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anifa]

Okay, back to this practice makes perfect thing AND SORE FINGERS....

 

To make the chord changes more fluently, I find that it's easier to make the change from Em to Am while dropping the B string on the first down stroke to avoid TARANTULA FINGERS, then picking the B string up by the time I hit the second stroke playing all six strings. Is this a bad habit to get into? Or is is common practice to make the move as easily as possible?

 

Tedster, that index finger that I injured back in July is still tender... I had a shot of steroids in the knuckle just a few weeks ago. Hard to keep the fingers curled...

[Tedster]

I'm not sure I'm correctly visualizing what it is you're doing...

 

On practice...practice is good...and you should devote time to it. But, what I tell most of the people I run into: Keep the guitar handy. Don't put it in its case under the bed or in a closet. Keep it where you can pick it up anytime, and whenever you have a free moment, pick the guitar up and plonk on it. It's good to practice your lesson, but it's also good to get sidetracked once in awhile...in other words...if you find by plonking your chords that something sounds familiar, pursue it! Try and figure it out! Don't wait for the teacher to spoonfeed you. Keep the guitar handy, play it often, and you'll do fine!

[Funk Jazz]

"C G and D are the I IV and V in the key of C. You could conceivably play any song (without modulations) with these three chords."

 

your heart's in the right place, but the theory is a little off. C/G/D would be I/V/II in C major.

 

C, F, and G are the I/IV/V in C major.

 

no offense or snobbiness intended, just trying to keep clear info out there.

[Paul Edwards]

Originally posted by funk_jazz:

"C G and D are the I IV and V in the key of C. You could conceivably play any song (without modulations) with these three chords."

 

your heart's in the right place, but the theory is a little off. C/G/D would be I/V/II in C major.

 

C, F, and G are the I/IV/V in C major.

 

no offense or snobbiness intended, just trying to keep clear info out there.

Sorry, Typing faster than thinking.

C/G/ D are the I IV V in the Key Of G albeit not in that order.

 

G = I

C = IV

D = V

 

but you get the idea.

[Cezar20]

your heart's in the right place, but the theory is a little off. C/G/D would be I/V/II in C major.

 

C, F, and G are the I/IV/V in C major.

 

no offense or snobbiness intended, just trying to keep clear info out there.[/QB]

 

Your heart is also in the righ place, but dittor your theory is VERY SLIGHTLY off. Or more likely a typo. Chord II in key of C is Dm not D.

[Eric Worthington]

(Well, G C & D give you the I-IV-V in G, and there's a ton of stuff in G.)

 

Anyway, Anifa and everyone else starting out,

 

DO NOT play the low E string unless it's needed. It's a BAD habit to start out with. You want to be accurate with your strumming hand, not just flailing across the guitar. I know someone who's good with her left hand, but she strums all six strings on virtually every chord and it sounds like crap.

 

Technically, E is in the triad of a C or an Am, but it's rarely what you really want. Case in point: strum the three chords you've learned, C / Am / Em in a repeating progression. If you include the E in every chord, it won't be dissonant, but you'll have the effect of pedaling an E bass note across the chords, which is most likely not the intended effect. Take away the low E (except for the Em chord) and now you have a distinct bass movement through the progression. It will sound tighter and clearer.

 

If you want to start off developing good habits, I highly recommend learning your chords starting with the root note at the bottom of every chord you learn.

[Anifa]

Thanks all,

 

I did drop the 6th string off of the C chord after Ted covered it in our second practice.

 

I do have another question after reading one of the other threads pertaining to changing out strings. Will leaving my guitar out of it's case, and open on the stand, decrease the life span of the strings; especially with less humidity in the air due to running a furnace?

 

And here's the KILLER QUESTION.... What brand of strings, and type, are best for use with an acoustelectric guitar???