This guy is the fastest shredder ever!!!!

[Teahead]

"Shredders" will never be as appreciated as someone who can really deliver a song as part of a musical team.

A similair example could be Track and Field athletes, who aren't as emotionaly involving to watch for the majority of the population as a football game, the difference between these otherwise similair feats of endurance?

How many people can actually relate to what you're doing?

[Master_Shredder]

Yes its easier for people to understand talentless guitar playing. good call!

[revolead]

I can see what Master-Shredder is getting at. I think speed can show emotion. I don't expect many to agree, but let's try to be a little open-minded.

And remember jazz hounds playing legato at 108 bpm can get just as masturbatory as shredders playing modal improv at 192 bpm. It's all an opinion of style.

[henryrobinett]

Speed does not equal emotion. If one wanted to analyse it I think emotions might be a beings vibrations or wavelengths on a scale of plus or minus affinity. So music, dealing with plus and minus wavelengths of SOUND is a perfect match for emotions.

 

Speed can get into the high plus mode and creates a kind of exhilaration emotion. But vibrato also creates an emotional effect, but what that is depends upon the rate, amount and intention of the player. But when all is the same the emotional effect becomes lost. In other words when a shredder only shreds the effect is lost. All it is is bombast.

 

I was listening to some Allan Holdsworth last night. Researching what I'm going to do about this non-American jazz concert I'm preparing for. I actualy haven't listen to him in years. The man shreds, but he also plays the gamut. Long legato lines, slowly bending below or above pitch; deep slow vibrato or very fast agitated vibrato. Then plays incredibly fast when appropriate, for full effect, when it serves the music. Emotion. And of course primarily it's the notes he chooses. Very pan-diatonic, chromatic, poly-modal. I dig him. I just can't listen to him too much.

[doc taz]

Originally posted by henryrobinett:

 

I was listening to some Allan Holdsworth last night. Researching what I'm going to do about this non-American jazz concert I'm preparing for. I actualy haven't listen to him in years. The man shreds, but he also plays the gamut. Long legato lines, slowly bending below or above pitch; deep slow vibrato or very fast agitated vibrato. Then plays incredibly fast when appropriate, for full effect, when it serves the music. Emotion. And of course primarily it's the notes he chooses. Very pan-diatonic, chromatic, poly-modal. I dig him. I just can't listen to him too much.

People often forget about his chordal work. They get caught up in his solos, and such. If it weren't for the awesome, complex chords that he uses, his music would suck. If you want to listen to him in a real solo context, listen to "Oneiric Moor" (from Wardenclyffe Tower) and "Kinder" (from Velvet Darkness). I think he used the SynthAxe on "Oneiric Moor".

[Base]

I loved superfast guitars when I started playing (hey, I was young, loud and fast was just cool!) so I kept trying to learn to play stuff like that. Don't try to play like that now but as a consequence I can put some nice quick bursts into lead when I want to (nothing like this guy of course).

 

Would bore me silly hearing or playing song after song of 10,000 notes per second, but it's a nice skill to have on hand to use in moderation. I can only think of one time I even try to play particularly fast in my own bands songs and that lasts for only a few seconds, a fast run up to a note then the rest of the solo at a more sensible speed. Used like that I think it can make a nice effect.

[Blondiedk]

Originally posted by lynng:

I'm not into the shred thing either, but this guy did a clinic at a local music store - and I had to go see who this fastest shredder alive was. Michael Angelo

Interesting, but the neatest thing was the TWIN Guitar. You need to check it out.

You can get more info on Michael Angelo Batio here:

http://www.midwestentertainers.net/assets/images/BossMorleybanner.jpg

[Blue Strat]

Originally posted by dougsthang':

Buckethead...if your going to play stupidly fast you might as well have a chicken bucket on your head

The burning question on my mind is...

 

Did the bucket he wears ever contain chicken? Is it stained with the oil of fried chicken or was it a gift from a chicken frying friend of his? Did he steal it from behind the counter himself?

[Guitarzan]

inquiring minds want to know!

[musicalhair]

Originally posted by Kevin F:

He might be the fastest, but who is the slowest?

 

K

That would be me! :^) I think I've got that sewn up pretty well.

 

I've listened to two clips of this guy but I don't know that he really "faster" than Tony MacAlpine or Vai or Malmsteen or is it Gary or Vinnie Moore, or that guy Shawn Lane.

 

There is a guy teaching in NJ named Eric Horn that "shredded" in just some amazing ways, I think he reached the speed limit on guitar. He ran an a minor arpeggio up and down the neck as during a lesson I took with him and he got progressively faster and faster as he talked about it. He got past ludicris speed and eventually out of just going faster and faster got to to where you really could barely hear anything beyond pick "ticks" on the strings. He was blindingly fast. Everyone I've met that knew him or studied with him feels the same way. Eric was a lot more than a shredder and last I heard he was immersing himself in chord melody type stuff-- Lush Life and tunes like that.

[Blue Strat]

Grunge killed shred.

[Gabriel E.]

Michael Angelo used to be in a really awful hair metal band called Nitro. God did they suck.

 

I never cared for grunge but I'm sure glad it erased Nitro, Poison and all the others.

[Guitarzan]

i think Poison would have erased themselves anyway.

[Gifthorse]

Please tell him to stop the madness.

[Caevan O’Shite]

So, like, uh, this thread is, like, nearly a whole year and seven months old... weird.

 

I liked bluestrat's burning bucket questions-post the best! Nugget- Bucket- chamille a chapeau; in Spanish, El Gato with a Stratty-Hon-do... The Cat with the Strat! (No, wait; that musta been Tedster; uh... )

[weaseltrap]

No wonder I missed this thread. I haven't been here that long.

 

Players like Holdsworth, McLaughlin and Steve Morse are great counter-examples to the shreder=wanker idea. Sure, those guys know how to play fast, but it's never just mind-numbing arpeggios. Holdsworth especially has an incredibly subtle and expressive style, at any speed.

 

Got to be biased though. John McLaughin's Mahavishnu Orchestra (1974) was the first band I ever saw live. It may have been a wankfest, but it changed my life forever.

 

-Bob

[trator]

Pathetic.

 

I prefer BB King.

[zeronyne]

Originally posted by henryrobinett:

Agreed. But I'm also intrigued by blistering technique -- only when it's tempered with taste. Most of the metal shredders don't interest me though. But I LOVE the fact that people are stretching the boundaries. I think it's sad that people dismiss, out of hand, "shredders". These guys are doing something that's never been done on the instrument before. Certainly not hurting anyone, except fragile egos.

 

It's as if you have a musical planet full of slackers who get upset when you remind them, only by slight implication, that they're slackers. And this is only "implied" because you're being really, really exceptionally good at something.

Although Henry ends up good-naturedly slagging shredders later, I think this part is worth a bump. Thanks Henry.

[fantasticsound]

There's only one problem with your premise, Psychotronic. I've heard people play fast and convey feeling.

 

I'm impressed with his physical dexterity and knowledge of the fretboard, but the music is boring to me and the guitar playing even more so.

 

Eddie Van Halen is a perfect example of someone who plays fast (albeit not compared to many guitarists doing the same thing as Rusty) but incorporates contrast in the notes he plays. Uniform guitar notes with no accents is akin to a drum machine with not touch sensitivity playing notes at 255 bpm. Sure, you can easily make a drum machine play that fast. But without dynamics, it sounds terrible.

 

This was done well by Vinnie Moore, Tony MacAlpine and a host of other guitarists almost 20 years ago. For the most part, despite my best attempts to enjoy their music, I ended up bored.

 

As for Rusty, if he enjoys what he's doing and doesn't inflict it on me, more power to him. Enjoy, Rusty!

 

And Henry, I actually worked a clinic for Johnny here in Nashville where he officially raised the bar on his record. I also mixed a clinic with Dave Garibaldi in which Johnny sat in on the end. The moral of this story is that Johnny shouldn't be judged for his extra-curricular, single-hit-speed feats. He's a drummer with taste who also happens to have very quick technique.

 

Catching on, guys and gals?

[MusicIsEnergyIsLifeIsSoul]

In reply to Mr Psychotronics post i would like to say a few things about "shred" and "shredders".Myself being a music lover i understand where you are coming from in your defensive post towards supposed "anti-Shredders"(people who did not want 2 spend the enormous amount of time it takes 2 become that fast so are in some way bias towards the "shredding" industry).But the way i see it is,the top game players of these days who do spend the enormous amount of time it takes to become as fast as they have become do not do it out of positive emotions(love)but out of the negative ones that spawn from fear.You are probably asking yourself this very moment "fear of what?"It comes from what the modern form of society has forced us to feel...a fear of Failure.Not being able 2 be wat they could be if they put enough time into it.So we spend all the time by ourselves countless hours a day practicing over and over again the same old scale or lick until it is mastered forgetting what music is truly all about.....Love(and sharing)the one and only true force haha(i was just thinking of star wars)yeah so anyway i would love 2 stay around and talk more but i have 2 do somethings so i leave you with my Love and Hope for peace and joy for you all.

[LavaMan]

I enjoy listening to a point with folks that are that fast - but I absolutley agree with all of the points that have been about speed vs. style - It is hard to play this type of music and be distinguishable from the rest...I reminded of that scene in Eddie and the Cruisers (I or II) where the young fast guitar player is told by the older experienced musician that it is not how many notes you play but "how" you play the notes...

[Joe Cole]

I had to laugh. The guy has practiced that schtick alot. It shows.

 

What I though was most interesting is that the videos are all shot in his bedroom, at low volume. You can hear his guitar acoustically.

 

Can he play with other people, or is this just masterbation? I think he needs to get out a bit.

 

He can freaking fly, though.

[Gifthorse]

How can this thread still be alive?

 

I just went and listened to this guy again. Someone needs to lock him up in a room with a banjo for a couple years or something.

[archibald3]

Wow i started this on a whim and its still going.The curious thing is that Rusty has since become a Guitar Player Magazine columnist!There`s a million guys who can do this stuff[or could]-even River`s Cuomo from Weezer[much to my suprise] Arch

[Bbach1]

Originally posted by guitarzan:

a sense of drama happens when speed is used tastefuly. sort of like a movie, if you rely on special effects without a solid story line you end up with a lame movie. keep in mind that sometimes this is untrue if the movie is groundbreaking. same for music.

I feel soling is like having a conversation with yourself. First you talk, than pause, then answer. While it is incredibly impressive how fast Rusty can fly, and I'm quite jealous, it gets old quickly because there is no give and take. I may be showing my age, but I'd rather listen to BB King playing a little blues solo than Rusty. That's not putting down the talent. Rusty seems amazing. It's just personal preference.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Psychotronic:

Charlie Parker, Paganini, Jaco -- yeah, so it's okay to shred on other instruments/other styles under the guise of jazz/classical/other?

I don't know about Jaco, but neither Paganini nor Parker played fast for its own sake.

[Guitarzan]

Originally posted by Bbach of Bismarck, son of Peter:

Originally posted by guitarzan:

a sense of drama happens when speed is used tastefuly. sort of like a movie, if you rely on special effects without a solid story line you end up with a lame movie. keep in mind that sometimes this is untrue if the movie is groundbreaking. same for music.

I feel soling is like having a conversation with yourself. First you talk, than pause, then answer. While it is incredibly impressive how fast Rusty can fly, and I'm quite jealous, it gets old quickly because there is no give and take. I may be showing my age, but I'd rather listen to BB King playing a little blues solo than Rusty. That's not putting down the talent. Rusty seems amazing. It's just personal preference.

key word..TASTEFULLY. never ending speed licks are tiring to the ears.

there is no sense of drama if it is all fast. there must be contrast.

[Franknputer]

Originally posted by henryrobinett:

Coltrane never had a life either. All he did was practice and he left a legacy, a sacrifice, for me to listen to and learn from for the rest of my life.

Y'know - not to belittle Coltrane or henry, but I read this & couldn't help but think that practice wasn't all he did - somewhere in there, he found time to do heroine too.

 

What does this have to do with anything? Dunno - I have my theories, but so what? Too OT... I guess the point of that is he had a life, too - maybe a really f'ed-up one, but a life.

 

Ultimately, music is for listening. When I hear shredding, I notice the blur, not unlike what happens with a movie or video. Go fast enough & the senses smear it into a continuous motion - and at that point it's no longer about the choice of each individual frame (note) but how they flow as a larger (moving) picture.

 

My problem with "shredders" is that it's too often just arpeggios & scale sequences - valid musical devices, yes, but they do not substitute for a good melody. And when they get sped up, it's the aural equivalent of staring at a geometric screen saver. Sure, it's fun for a minute or two - but it ain't the Mona Lisa. (IMHO, the better ones would be a bit more like M.C. Escher, anyway...)

[Gifthorse]

I have said it before, I used to be a shredder in the 80's. I had a bunch of trix in my bag like all shredders. A bunch of different fast patterns, arpeggio sequences I could play fast like a robot. I would practice endlessly to be able to do the stuff Vinne Moore, Eric Johnson (my fav rock shredder) and Yngwie were doing, always seeing Holdsworth as beyond any of them technically.

 

I am glad I did it cuz it expanded my ability to express myself. I mean speed is definately a tool like it has been stated, to make a solo more dramatic or whatever.

 

Technique is a tough thing to define. So many elements working together-- dynamics, speed, attack, vibrato, feel, tone.

 

One thing about alot of shredders that bugs me is that many of them use too much distortion. It is a crutch really. EVH (old), or Vai don't do this. I learned when I was about 19 that distortion just makes you sound smaller and weaker. You should always have to PLAY the guitar and work for your tone. If you cant play it note for note completely on top of it without alot of gain, then you are going to sound like you are faking it. In fact if you are doing it right, you can make an amp that isn't set for super distortion sound distorted from your attack- within reason.

 

I saw a clinic with Tony Macalpine back in like 90' and he used so much distortion that you couldn't even hear him playing, just a buzzy mush of noise.

 

Vibrato is such a defining aspect of a person's style and appeal. Often it is secondary to a shredder. They almost all try and adopt that same exaggerated Yngwie type vibrato--usually not as good tho. Keep in mind, I am not ripping on Yngwie. I think he really moved electric guitar forward and had a very unique style, but that is one very important trait that players overlook. Vibrato is one of the most important things to make you sound like yourself. Just listen to your fav rock players and you will notice that the ones with styles all have a unique vibrato.

 

I was at that 'about django' website a few weeks ago listening to raphael fays play that minor swing thing. To me he is a shredder. I mean he is fast as hell when he needs to be and every note counts. Thats the kind of shredder I like now.

 

Eric Johnson is amazing still too. Unbelievable approach to pentatonics.

[Guitarzan]

i always liked Vinnie Moore's playing. i had opportunity a few years to see him in a clinic and he is a nice guy with a sense of humour. i didn't realize he was a little guy.