"Holland" - Better Than "Pet Sounds?"

[soapbox]

Okay, I know that everyone seems to agree that "Pet Sounds" was the creative zenith for The Beach Boys; but personally, I like "Holland" better. It seems to be a real sleeper that few are aware of. In fact, it was only re-released on CD within the last year. Now, there are a lot of great cuts on "Pet Sounds." "God Only Knows" is my favorite. However, nothing sends me the way that "Sail On Sailor," "Trader," or "Leaving This Town" do from the 1972 "Holland" release. Is it just me, or are there any other fans of this great LP out there?

[gmd]

Ah, yes mr. Soapbox, great minds think alike. I agree that along with "Holland", that whole early seventies Beach Boy era is overlooked, and it borders on criminal. I flat LOVE "Friends", and all the albums of that period. Carl really came into his own as a songwriter/bandleader, and Dennis Wilson wrote some cool songs about that time as well. "Little Bird", "Flip Flyin'On An Airplane", (I might not have these titles exactly right, but you know the songs),"Long Promised Road", etc. GREAT STUFF! Those of you who missed all that great music need to get off your butts and go buy those CDs. You won't regret it... [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] This message has been edited by gmd on 10-13-2001 at 10:07 PM

[zele]

HOLLAND One of the greats! Talk about tech problems--I am sure you are aware of the damage to their equipment the crew brought to Europe---wrong voltage KABOOM--very costly---but the tunes were great!! Get a chance the see Jardine & Freinds on tour--listen to their rendention---Brian is proud!!!>>>>Working on another version of "Sail on Sailor" this week in the studio

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Holland is great, but Loves You is better (and wackier)... And the unreleased Smile tapes are the best of all. But Holland is a pretty good introduction to '70s Beach Boys if you only know the '60s hits. "The Trader", "Sail On Sailor", and the you-can-almost-smell-the-pot-in-the-air synth solo of "Leavin' This Town" are great. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] A friend told me that, after listening to Holland, don't be surprised if you want to go hug some trees... [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

[soapbox]

I can see from the posts above, that this gem of an album is appreciated. I'll have to check out some of the other material mentioned as well. Thanks for the recommendations!

[Mark Zeger]

I recently found a used Pet Sounds commemorative box set (saved about $30). This is unbelievable! It's a 4 CD set with booklets. Most interesting are the vocals-only mixes and the tracking session recordings (including Brian's talk-back mic instuctions to the Wrecking Crew) with the "Good Vibrations" session as a bonus. It's like a master class in pop music history. Strongly recommended.

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[quote]Originally posted by soapbox: [b]I can see from the posts above, that this gem of an album is appreciated. I'll have to check out some of the other material mentioned as well. Thanks for the recommendations![/b][/quote] Some other overlooked gems are "L.A. (Light Album)" and Dennis Wilson's solo album "Ocean Pacific Blue". "L.A." is probably the best late '70s BB recording... Very mellow and melodic except for a lonnnnnng disco remake of "Here Comes The Night" (still don't know how I feel about that one). Otherwise, it's really good stuff. "Ocean Pacific Blue" is the real classic, though. There's a BB influence for sure, but the music sounds closer to a cross between Pink Floyd and Tom Waits. (Dennis' voice has that gruff, drunken Tom Waits kind of sound to it, and some of the piano in the songs recall Tom Waits' earlier records.) This was only on CD briefly and then went out of print... You can find it on record at a used record shop or possibly as mp3s on the net. This album [i]should[/i] be re-released on CD -- it has terrific songwriting and performances... And a production that sounds really incredible even today (the album was recorded in 1977). It's a shame that "Ocean Pacific Blue" was the only album Dennis released... If that album was an indication, he seemed to be a major musical talent just like Brian Wilson.

[batman forgot his cape]

hey...don't forget "Surfs Up".......magic! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

[Gtoledo3]

My favorite is Wild Honey---but, GV box set 3 and 4 are really my fav. Too bad they dont count as albums! The unreleased wilson tracks, are awesome. 20/20 is pretty hot too. On a side note, can you believe Soulful Old Man Sunshine was never released!!!!

[XNU8D]

[quote]Originally posted by popmusic: [b]A friend told me that, after listening to Holland, don't be surprised if you want to go hug some trees... [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img][/b][/quote] [quote]Originally posted by Batman: [b]hey...don't forget "Surfs Up".......magic! [/b][/quote] Hum, Surfs Up did have a tree hugging song...

[jflush]

May you never hear surf music again! I used to really care less for the Boys... Frankly, I hated them for the longest time... those Oldies stations, always playing the same couple of songs... Here's how I got "totally hooked" !!! A) Borrowed a copy of Brian's book Wouldn't It Be Nice... For what it's worth, Brian's battle with obesity, drug addiction... mental illness... cousins like Mike Love... Awesome! First book I finished since the Real Zappa Book! B) After finishing the book, rented the video... Beach Boys, An American Band... Heavy! Try to get past the first image... a wave. Took me three shots, didn't want to miss a thing! This video is a brutally honest "stripping away of the candy coating"! WOW, what a bunch of weirdos! Anybody who hasn't seen this video, run out and find a copy! But seriously, every one that I've forced to read the book first before watching the video agrees, having read the book, enhances the video experience... Total deprogramming! Works every time! Try it for yourself... I'd lend you my copy of Wouldn't It Be Nice, but it's out on loan... Also, have to agree, the Dennis solo stuff is awesome! The Good Vibrations box is also highly recommended! "Til I die... my favorite Boys song....And as always...Kick some ass Mike!

[DougP]

It's probably worth mentioning that most of the Beach Boys recordings from that era were recorded/engineered by one Stephen Desper, who deserves a lot of credit (especially since Brian Wilson wasn't wholly functional at the time, although it wasn't until after 'Holland' that he started living in bed full-time) for the advanced recording techniques that were used on many of those songs. Some of my favorite SOUNDS from that era ... * Theremin ("I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" 'Pet Sounds', "Good Vibrations", "Wild Honey") * "Diamond Head", the "soundscape" piece on 'Friends' (where various instruments and amps simulate thunder, surf, rain, etc.) * the processed-snare intro to "Do It Again" ('20/20') * the backwards-cymbal intro to "Never Learn Not To Love" (from '20/20' - the song that Dennis "borrowed" from Charles Manson's "Cease To Exist") * the banjo-as-sitar solo and fuzz bass on "Cabinessence" ('20/20') * the trippy delay & synth effects on "Cool Water" ('Sunflower') * the extreme compression and filtered-white-noise-enhanced electric piano on "All I Wanna Do" ('Sunflower') * the use of something like five different organs on the different parts of "A Day In The Life Of A Tree" ('Surf's Up') * the spot in "Surf's Up" where the Moog bass comes in ("... I HEARD the word / WonDERful thing / A CHILDren's song ..." * the wacky proto-new-wave synth sounds on 'Love You' It's amazing how sonically-innovative the Beach Boys were from 'Pet Sounds' (66) through 'Holland' (73) and 'Love You' (77).

[gmd]

I think the main reason that the early to mid-70's Beach Boys stuff was over-looked at the time was the "hipness" factor. They just couldn't shake their surf image, and it wasn't cool to like 60's surf music.(Dennis Johnson and Mike Love both talked about that in one of the Beach Boy documentary films.) That's a shame because as some of you have noted, they actually got BETTER (and more creative)as they evolved out of the whole surf/teenage party sound. Hopefully that whole era will be re-discovered someday and they'll get the credit they deserve.

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[quote]Originally posted by jflush: [b]I used to really care less for the Boys... Frankly, I hated them for the longest time... those Oldies stations, always playing the same couple of songs... [/b][/quote] As a kid, I couldn't stand the Beach Boys... I remember being a precocious 10-year old saying to my dad, "I don't like the Beach Boys -- all their music is too happy!" It wasn't until later that I discovered how wrong I was... Songs like "Till I Die", "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", and "Caroline No" are among the most heart-wrenching songs/recordings I've ever heard. I sometimes get choked up when I hear the background vocals in "Wasn't Made For These Times"... I eventually realized that even some of the hits -- like "In My Room" -- have a strong underlying melancholy too. I should note that I don't automatically like something [i]because[/i] it's melancholy, but to be able to pull off sweet, catchy, melodic songs with a sad undercurrent and never have it feel forced... that's what I like so much about many of the BB recordings. Here's how I got hooked: I had "Pet Sounds" on a tape for about a year and thought it was OK... I remember wondering why the critics made such a big fuss about the album. And then about after a year of occasionally listening to the album, one day I suddenly "got it". And then a friend gave me some of the Smile tapes and I *really* got hooked. I haven't been the same since. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] This message has been edited by popmusic on 10-18-2001 at 09:11 AM

[Mark Zeger]

I shared the same feeling about the Beach Boys in my youth expressed by others: tired, nostalgia act performing insipid throw-away music. What turned my head was the documentary on Brian Wilson titled "I Just Wasn't Meant For These Times". It was produced in the mid-90's by Don Was for the Disney Channel. I wish I could find it on DVD.

[20to20]

[quote]Originally posted by mzeger: What turned my head was the documentary on Brian Wilson titled "I Just Wasn't Meant For These Times". It was produced in the mid-90's by Don Was for the Disney Channel. [/quote] Yeah, that documentary was great... I kept thinking when I first saw it how good that Was-assembled band sounded... Brian Wilson (of course), Jim Keltner, Benmont Tench, Don Was, etc... And also that it was too bad Brian didn't just hire three Soulful Brothers to do b-vox in 1967 (post Pet Sounds)... Let Mike Love and the Boys do the road show, then he (and Van Dyke Parks) could hunker down in the studio, and not have to worry about "selling" the new compositions to the BBs, who thought he'd lost it.. It might have saved him alot of emotional wear & tear... Nickelbob 20to20soundesign P.S. No disrespect meant, but if you closed your eyes when Brian was talking in that documentary, he sounded just like Carl in Caddyshack! This message has been edited by twenty.twenty@gte.net on 10-19-2001 at 02:32 AM

[BOOKUMDANO]

I vote "Surf's Up" better than "Holland". Especially "Till I Die", "Long Promised Road" (used to be great to see Carl do that one in their concerts). I love the song "Surf's Up" ...but I also hate it. Van Dyke's lyrics are as bad as those of Yes. I've always felt that Mike and Brian should sit down and try a different set of lyrics as an experiment. Mike's input on lyrics could have easily taken this "almost" masterpiece to the same eternal place as "Good Vibrations".

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[quote]Originally posted by BOOKUMDANO: [b]I love the song "Surf's Up" ...but I also hate it. Van Dyke's lyrics are as bad as those of Yes. [/b][/quote] Well... This doesn't change the lyrics, but there are bootleg versions of the song "Surf's Up" that have a better, slightly less cluttered arrangement than the one on the "Surf's Up" album. The song "Surf's Up" was supposed to be on the infamous unreleased Smile album. The best part of the song is at the very end, when the vocals quote another song from Smile -- "Child is Father of the Man". So unless you've heard "Child is Father of the Man" (The "Surf's Up" album doesn't have it), the harmony vocals at the end don't mean as much... But in the context of how Smile was probably supposed to sound... Wow! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif[/img] It's a great, unpretentious example of reusing musical motifs and manipulating them in different ways throughout an album.

[Gtoledo3]

No no no no no no no! The Was produced Wilson was trash!!!! Listen to the Originals... the remixes have generic playing and background singing, as well as a generally lame tone. This was a real low point in BBoys history.

[DougP]

[quote]Originally posted by popmusic: [b] Well... This doesn't change the lyrics, [/b][/quote] Sign me up for the opposing team, then. I LOVE Van Dyke Parks' lyrics for "Surf's Up" (as well as Brian's music ... not an easy one to learn on the piano). Yes, they're sort of pretentious, like all that ponderous pseudo-mystical prog-rock stuff that BookumDano refers to. But unlike that genre, the lyrics to "Surf's Up" are loaded with puns and clever wordplay (like finding the word "holocaust" in the line "the music hall a costly bow") - there's a sense of humor and playfulness not found in most "pretentious" lyrics. And the word choices also work really well phonetically/sonically, on top of their "meaning" (or lack thereof). I also find the lyrics to currently be very topical, with their "twilight-of-the-American-empire" theme (the line, "columnated ruins domino", for instance, which also references fallen empires, the Vietnam war, and sacred music, with only THREE words! To me, that is an AMAZING lyric construction.). But then again, I pretty much hate nearly all of Mike Love's lyrics (even "Good Vibrations"). They're one of the reasons why my story is like everyone else's on this thread ... I always thought of the Beach Boys as a lame, square, bubblegum oldies band (with juvenile cars/girls lyrics) until I discovered the good stuff (courtesy of a very good friend who played 'Friends' late one night after a rather ... um ... eventful night ... it was EXACTLY what we needed at that moment). [b]The song "Surf's Up" was supposed to be on the infamous unreleased Smile album. The best part of the song is at the very end, when the vocals quote another song from Smile -- "Child is Father of the Man". So unless you've heard "Child is Father of the Man" (The "Surf's Up" album doesn't have it), the harmony vocals at the end don't mean as much... But in the context of how Smile was probably supposed to sound... Wow! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif[/img] It's a great, unpretentious example of reusing musical motifs and manipulating them in different ways throughout an album.[/b] It's worth noting that the "Surf's Up" coda uses different music and lyrics than the original song, "Child is Father of the Man", as recorded for 'SMiLE' (the lines "A children's song..." through "...and the children know the way" were added for the 'Surf's Up' album). In fact, all the stuff at the end of "Surf's Up" (like the Moog bass I referred to in a previous post, and all the "Child is Father of the Man" vocals) was added post-'SMiLE'. Is anyone else here fanatic enough to have created your own tracklist and sequence for 'SMiLE' out of boxset/bonus/bootleg tracks? Or edited the numerous fragments of "Heroes and Villains" together into your own arrangement? Those have been really fun opportunities for me to play "pretend-I'm-Brian-Wilson" [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] (as if I had even 10% of his musical ability - I wish!).

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[quote]Originally posted by DougP: [b]Is anyone else here fanatic enough to have created your own tracklist and sequence for 'SMiLE' out of boxset/bonus/bootleg tracks? Or edited the numerous fragments of "Heroes and Villains" together into your own arrangement? [/b][/quote] Are you kidding? That's why I bought a CD burner! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] I didn't know that the coda to "Surf's Up" was tacked on for the album. I think it works beautifully in the context of Smile anyway. And yeah, I admit I've played around with editing some of the Heroes and Villans outtakes. But now I'm doing that kind of writing/editing with some of my own music (which definitely has a Smile-like vibe to it). It's taking as much time to finish as Smile, too... [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img]