adam b Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 The myth says he went to the mississippi crossroads and came back with amazing guitar playing abilities....is it true? post your thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Well, the story is too long for here to tell, but I had a really bizzare occurance as I was standing at the intersection of rts. 61 and 49 (the very same crossroads of Johnson lore). I see you are from PA, so perhaps you remember Tonya Brown, alias The Queen Bee, who died a couple of years ago? It had to do with her and a message she left for my wife who, though a White girl, otherwise has led a life that paralleled Tonya's in just about every way. The message came to her in a dream while I was standing on the crossroads...It's just too long to tell, but it has reall ymade me wonder about that place and I'm Mr. Joe Rational. One thing about it, ol' Robert got his fame, but the payback was Hell. It is a strange trip to be standing on those crossraods...I can tell you that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 never been to those crossroads, but I've made my deals with the devil. The devil is not necessary a bad sort, and hell is here on earth. The devil is omniscience- he knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men, and what love and kindness too. To see clearly and without illusion is to see as the devil sees. Something to strive for. As for his chops, he worked like the very devil for them. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Lambo Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 It's much more fun to think that he DID sell his soul, but it's obviously not true. The fact is at some point he disappeared for quite a while and during this time few people saw him. When he reappeared he was apparently so good that it started rumors. I would guess that during the time he was away he was practicing his butt off and stunned everyone who saw him afterwards - a testament to hard work. I actually like the soul-selling story much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanner Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Originally posted by E-Lambo: [QB]It's much more fun to think that he DID sell his soul, but it's obviously not true. huh?? where you get your infomation from, huh? AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 I've drank beers with him, and I'm sure its was him at that mushroom party back in 78. I think they can shape change though, otherwise there wouldn't be so many EX wives. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave da Dude Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Ted, The devil is not necessary a bad sort, and hell is here on earth. First part is untrue. He IS a bad sort , but he'll APPEAR to be a very reasonable and, logical "person". As to whether or not to sell your soul, it comes down to how much it is worth to you. The second part, AMEN! And just an aside here and I'll get off my soap-box. "Make a joyful noise unto the Lord." Dave the (non) Druid PS Why does everyone immediately assume that his tremendous leap in talent was because of making a deal with the devil? Maybe he made a convenant (deal/pact) with God! Gotta' geetar... got the amp. There must be SOMEthing else I... "need". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Souls can't be sold, only mis-used, abused, and the like; you can be tricked into thinking it's been bought or lost, but such a transaction has no binding legitimacey whatsoever, and there is ALWAYS an opportunity to make another decision. You are NEVER unable to make a decision of personal responsibility, and ALWAYS have some chance at change. Take that from a former substance abuser. 'Nuff said 'bout that. As for Robert J, his bad habits won him that rep, or at least secured and cemented it. Cheating, womanizing, thieving... these things didn't exactly endear him to a number of folks; look at all the controversey over his death, and how many people had motive, means, and desire to murder him. If anybody seems a more likely candidate for that kind of suspicion, it would have been Django; he suffered terrible injuries, was little seen for a year, and then came out playing better than ever! The reason he didn't get that Diabolical rap? His was a social setting of less ignorance and more progressiveness, and he may have been a character, but I haven't heard of anybody but the Nazi regime who wanted to nail him... Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc_Lafrance Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Everything I know about Robert Johnson is from the movie Crossroads. I thought that they were making up the fact that he sold his soul at the crossroads. But according to the movie all he has to do is find a kid who is really good at guitar.... bring him to the crossroads and let him play. The devils associate type guy will show up and bring him to the devils guitar player.. From there the kid he brought will beat the devils guitar player in a very entertaining dual and win his soul back. "What's with these new bands, everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact." -Homer Simpson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Ted, quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The devil is not necessary a bad sort, and hell is here on earth. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ First part is untrue. He IS a bad sort , but he'll APPEAR to be a very reasonable and, logical "person". As to whether or not to sell your soul, it comes down to how much it is worth to you. The second part, AMEN! And just an aside here and I'll get off my soap-box. "Make a joyful noise unto the Lord." Dave the (non) Druid PS Why does everyone immediately assume that his tremendous leap in talent was because of making a deal with the devil? Maybe he made a convenant (deal/pact) with God! -------- You see, Dave, I believe that the Devil is in fact God. The omniscient aspect, to be specific. And if God is purely good, the Devil must be at least as powerful, judging from the mayhem going on here on earth. If we are to judge by that. The Devil in his aspect as slick reasonable salesman is only a hazard to those who are not employing their entire experience and knowledge, i.e., looking at things like the Devil does. The fact is, there are way more spirits out there (billions, even) than the Devil and God- those are ways of reducing the unimaginable multitude to the almost imaginable duality- we can thank Zoroastrianism for the Judeo/Muslim/Christian tendency to want to reduce the endless variety of the world to black and white dualities. Thanks guys! I am myself possessed by various musical spirits- call them muses, call them the damned, my best art does not originate with me, it comes through me. Call them God. Robert Johnson had a hotline to inspiration. He died frustrated and is probably still hanging around possessing people who still have fingers to play with. The dead can be terribly frustrated by their own incorporeality- I find they absolutely clamor for an opportunity to channel music through the living. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam b Posted August 27, 2003 Author Share Posted August 27, 2003 thanks for the replies they're very interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Originally posted by CaevanO'Shite: Souls can't be sold..Wrongo.....I'll sell you mine, right after I sell the Golden Gate Bridge to Drum Groove! Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMcGuitar Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 I'm happy to sell out ('cept no one ever seems to be buying ), but as far as souls go, I'll only rent mine. May all your thoughts be random! - Neil www.McFaddenArts.com www.MikesGarageRocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam b Posted August 27, 2003 Author Share Posted August 27, 2003 selling out is the same as selling your soul? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 The "selling the soul to the devil at midnight at the crossroads" comes out of voodoo and other African-derived religions, it's not exclusive to Robert Johnson. Based on my reading about him, I believe RJ dropped out of sight for a while, shedded his butt off, and with a liberal dose of native talent developed his phenomenal technique. I also believe 1) he was a showman, and this story "got 'em into the tent"; 2) he was very proprietary about his licks and didn't want other people to cop them. If they thought that the only way they could get as good as him was to consign their soul to damnation, they'd be less eager to try. And for those that did go to the crossroads, all they'd get was tired. The topic never did come up with Django, even though he was illiterate and as superstitious as any Gypsy, because it wasn't part of their lore. It's well-known that Django played both guitar and violin from the time that he was a small boy. Adapting his technique was not out of reach for him; in fact, some have suggested that it was easier to play that way because he didn't have 4 fingers to get confused, it was either his first or his second. I've seen a brief video of Django playing and it doesn't sem SO unbelievable when you see him do it. We may be equating "chops" with "musical talent", though, and I don't think they're the same thing. The remarkable thing about both these men is not how quickly they twiddled their fingers, but the startlingly original music that came from those twiddled fingers. A shameless plug: I'm working in a book right now that examines the relationship that the mind and emotions bear to the physical act of playing, and how getting the mental and emotional aspects in line makes the physical a whole lot easier, and more enjoyable. If anyone is interested, please PM me and I'll create a mailing list. The book is the reason I'm loaded for bear on this topic right now. Hope I haven't been too pedantic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 By the way, did you hear about the dyslexic blues guitarist who went down to the crossroads at midnight and sold his soul to Santa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Originally posted by chad: By the way, did you hear about the dyslexic blues guitarist who went down to the crossroads at midnight and sold his soul to Santa?Well that actually seems more believable to me. I think the fact that I take responsibility for my own actions and don't rely on crazy delusions as an excuse for my failures makes me a better musician. So yeah, sure, I sold my soul to Satan...haha! sure, whatever. http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Originally posted by chad: "We may be equating "chops" with "musical talent", though, and I don't think they're the same thing." "The remarkable thing about both these men is not how quickly they twiddled their fingers, but the startlingly original music that came from those twiddled fingers." Hmmmnn... you just might be on to something there! In other words, I couldn't agree more. Originally posted by Stephen LeBlanc: "...I take responsibility for my own actions and don't rely on crazy delusions as an excuse for my failures..."Must be something in the ethereal tonight, you might be on to something there, too... careful, don't let this line of thought get out of hand, a number of cottage (and big-time) industries and TV shows could fold! Kinda like when I said, "You are NEVER unable to make a decision of personal responsibility, and ALWAYS have a chance at change." Only I less abrubptly stepped out of that phony belief system, and more gently pointed towards the door... kinda like all those "messiahs" in that song by Pete Townsend and The Who ("I'm Free", from Tommy). Not that I'm making a messiah or sacred cow outta either of us- that would be the opposite of my point- we just made a post or two, and some decisions in our own lives, wrather than being on a life's mission to lead anybody else. In other words, Stephen, yeah, I couldn't agree more! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Originally posted by chad: "We may be equating "chops" with "musical talent", though, and I don't think they're the same thing." "The remarkable thing about both these men is not how quickly they twiddled their fingers, but the startlingly original music that came from those twiddled fingers." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hmmmnn... you just might be on to something there! In other words, I couldn't agree more. Oh yeah, it ain't just chops, one reason why the Steve Vai bit in the movie was utterly missing the point. quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Stephen LeBlanc: "...I take responsibility for my own actions and don't rely on crazy delusions as an excuse for my failures..." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I think my reality would be classified as a "crazy delusion" by you. I attribute my successes to crazy delusions too. Actually, I am quite sure that if you don't think there are disembodied spirits and other sources of inspiration and soul beyond our individual selves, you are deluded in a none-too-colorful, pedantic way. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Actually, I am quite sure that if you don't think there are disembodied spirits and other sources of inspiration and soul beyond our individual selves, you are deluded in a none-too-colorful, pedantic way.haha...touche...I disagree of course (with the disembodied spririts part) but it's cool I am of course inspired by things outside of myself, you can't make music worth a damn unless you are but the spiritual mumbo jumbo is well, delusional. http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 "I am of course inspired by things outside of myself, you can't make music worth a damn unless you are but the spiritual mumbo jumbo is well, delusional. " You know, I think of it as a model, of something I can't understand the essential reality of. Like science is a model- all these atoms and molecules are just a way of understanding what we cannot perceive in a very direct way. It appeals to me, as a model. It would be absurd for me to claim that I "really" know what goes on. I would say that attributing Johnson's gift to God, or to the devil, is just another model. Believing it literally could be a delusion, and I contend believing that scientific models are literally true is just as delusional. Whence comes inspiration, in your take, Stephen? Or anybody else? Who sings though me so much better than I can, with so little effort from myself, and in fact pretty much ignoring my conscious mind and keeping it the hell out of the way? Or in what way is that still me? A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Well in my own writing it's a combination of life experience and random processes...in the most simplistic terms (since I'm too lazy tonight to try harder ) the random stuff is where the magic is. The fact that a random event (stumbling across a melodic passage or chord) is a true miracle. Imagine a spinning wheel with paddles attached to it that hit a percussive instrument each time it goes around. Slow it down speed it up, stop and start it, you'll get different rhythms...a child with no musical training at all given something like this can create the most complex and inspiring rhythms. You can equate this example to everything in life in my opinion. All random occurances colliding with the repetitive order that is life experience...clash...beauty. I find it more miraculous that so much beauty and order can come from random processes than believing some dude in the sky is maintaining it all. Again, I'm not explaining my view too well here, it would take far more words than I'm willing to type and I've also had a couple of Guinness...haha my friend Greg helped me put into words how I see the regular improvs I do with my brother and friends...check it out: JAMFREE Chance processes build complex things in the world: Things that can be quite organized. Improvisational music can be thought of like this. JamFree is the ongoing experimental music project of two brothers. As the core of weekly improvisational jams, we bring in various musicians and play without pretension or expectation. Musical styles range from jazz, blues, and country to experimental noise and heavy progressive rock. Mistakes do not matter, and there are essentially no rules; just a search for spontaneous events to emerge from what may, at times, be chaotic and messy. The valuable moments that come out of an inspired and symbiotic coordination between musicians make it all worth it. The implied philosophy is one of freedom: Freedom to explore possibilities of composition and allow random processes a turn at building something organized and special. http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 (A) Robert J's selling his soul is a crock, and (B) I believe that there is a spiritual side to things, and thus that it is especially important to accept personal responsibility, and make decisions. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Poor Robert! First, he's killed over a woman. Now, people have to go saying things like, "He wasn't really any good. It was all the devil's doin'." If I were Robert, I'd be bummed. If I were God, I'd punish you rascals for saying nasty things about the dead. And if I were the Devil, I'd probably be doing business with a lot of guitar player, because they really seem to be insecure about being good and whether you're good and who's better than whom. Rat bait! The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Damned- er, I mean, Yeah, right! What he said! Hey, I like your sig line there, Dan. Does that mean that Tony Levin played for both Stravinski and Alice? I smell a Devilish deal there, fersher! I love Stravinski's Rite of Spring, and I've seen Mr. Levin do his voodoo live a coupla times. Great musician! He rawks, and rolls! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Cool, Stephen. I happen to believe that the "random", that elusive and readily available article, is the flux in which intention, divinity, and a lot of other things get to frolic, in the cracks between the more rigid laws of physics etc. "And if I were the Devil, I'd probably be doing business with a lot of guitar player, because they really seem to be insecure about being good and whether you're good and who's better than whom. Rat bait!" A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martianrebel Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Hey guys There's a thread on another board from a dude willing to sell body parts for some software.... But yer soul? In the immortal words of Bartholomew Simpson, "Oh, how can someone with glasses that thick be so stupid? Listen: you don't have a soul, I don't have a soul, there's no such thing as a soul!" -{m}- What's these knobs for? http://www.martianrebel.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 James Brown got soul! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave da Dude Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 James Brown got soul! I agree he has soul , BUT I lost a lot of respect for him after I lived in the area he was raised (Aiken, SC was were I lived) and found he was a wife abuser. Dave Gotta' geetar... got the amp. There must be SOMEthing else I... "need". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martianrebel Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 Favourite James Brown quote: "I was high on God!" -{m}- What's these knobs for? http://www.martianrebel.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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